Greatest genocide on earth(It happened in America)

Originally posted by JADESTONE
Native Indian population before they were prosecuted: 100 milion

Native Indian population now: 2 million (approx)

Can you prove there were 100 million NA's living here before other countries came. I would like to see you prove those numbers.

Sorry no NA sites allowed when answering, they tend to blow things into something they are not.

Before you try and flame me, let me tell you I am 1/8th NA so I have nothing against my heritage. I would just like to see some proven facts and figures. Thank you...............

Originally posted by Souljah
yep,
this is america.
founded by blood and guts...

What were all the other countries on Earth founded on? Rainbows and children's smiles? Every country on the planet that exists now, or has ever existed, was founded on blood and guts. So what were you trying to say by singling out the U.S. like this?

The Indians learned a lesson from the white man and they are now using it against the white man. The Indians now get the white man drunk and steal his property (money).

The Indian wars show just how the government works. Tell em what they want to hear as they are sending the troops out to rape and pillage and then deny the whole thing.

Originally posted by Gazrok

Native Indian population before they were prosecuted: 100 milion

Native Indian population now: 2 million (approx)

The above arguments not withstanding....

That isn't taking into account the 200 YEARS of assimilation into the populace...there are plenty more Native Americans who aren't in that 2 million number, but they are simply mixed with other races so you aren't going to see it... THAT'S how it went from 100 million to 2 million. The above is trying to erroneously assume that 98 million Native Americans (i.e. not Native Indians, hehe...) were the victims of genocide. That simply isn't true. Many simply chose to leave and mix with the population over two centuries....

It's interesting that every minority but blacks have been given the option of assimilation.

Originally posted by Flinx
It's interesting that every minority but blacks have been given the option of assimilation.

Maybe its because they don't want to.

Folks...I've just got a question...

Just how is the current population of the US responsible for the actions of what happened a couple of hundred years ago ???

I mean don't get me wrong, these things did happen, but how can the current population be held responsible ?

And if they can't...why discuss it ?

It sounds like more racial bashing to me...

They say to ignore history is to be doomed to repeat it, therefore i believe it answers the question as to why discuss any of this. Also, it is an important and necessary aspect of humnanity to look at where we have come from and see how we have improved or not.
Wouldn't that be tantamount to saying that it never happened when you don't think it relevant or 'current' to discuss?
I don't think discussing it has anyting to do with placing blame on the current system nor on people today, the fact of the matter is though with our current moral and ethical values we believe that illegally displaced peoples deserve to be treated with respect and compensated for their losses, infact that is part of international law today and currently being seen in Cyprus. I won't go into details as to that, but I do believe and I think the world at large believes that something is owed to native americans for what has happened to them. I am suprised that similar benefits were not offered to African Americans that can prove their lineage has descended from slaves.

[edit on 3-2-2005 by jawapunk]

Originally posted by JADESTONE
I admit I went overboard on the language ,greatest genocide perhaps not

You did not go overboard. If anything, you were gifted with understatement and blessed with poignancy. The Americans did deliberately attempt to exterminate us, and in recognition of this Adolf Hitler ordered a complete set of the US govt annals that described the campaigns to help the SS plan the Final Solution in Europe.

We who survive demand justice.

Originally posted by jawapunk
They say to ignore history is to be doomed to repeat it, therefore i believe it answers the question as to why discuss any of this. Also, it is an important and necessary aspect of humnanity to look at where we have come from and see how we have improved or not.
Wouldn't that be tantamount to saying that it never happened when you don't think it relevant or 'current' to discuss?
I don't think discussing it has anyting to do with placing blame on the current system nor on people today, the fact of the matter is though with our current moral and ethical values we believe that illegally displaced peoples deserve to be treated with respect and compensated for their losses, infact that is part of international law today and currently being seen in Cyprus. I won't go into details as to that, but I do believe and I think the world at large believes that something is owed to native americans for what has happened to them. I am suprised that similar benefits were not offered to African Americans that can prove their lineage has descended from slaves.

[edit on 3-2-2005 by jawapunk]

Yes that exactlly the point

History is not something that is only to be taught in the school books, its the
the accumulation of knowledge . yet we have neglected to see it , every tragedy in human history is caused because we have failed to look into the past and learn from it.

Accepting the faults of our past is the only way to preventing it from repeating it in the future.

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by JADESTONE
Native Indian population before they were prosecuted: 100 milion

Native Indian population now: 2 million (approx)

Can you prove there were 100 million NA's living here before other countries came. I would like to see you prove those numbers.

Sorry no NA sites allowed when answering, they tend to blow things into something they are not.

Before you try and flame me, let me tell you I am 1/8th NA so I have nothing against my heritage. I would just like to see some proven facts and figures. Thank you...............

sorry but they did not have demographic census at that time but this is the figure that most scholar agree upon.

Again I stress is the number that important.

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
Folks...I've just got a question...

Just how is the current population of the US responsible for the actions of what happened a couple of hundred years ago ???

I mean don't get me wrong, these things did happen, but how can the current population be held responsible ?

And if they can't...why discuss it ?

It sounds like more racial bashing to me...

Its not the US population , Its the Government Silly.

Ok I admit I am a bit upset with the whites , and I will start another thread to tell u why.

We who survive demand justice.

Chakotay, all respect but what exactly would you consider justice for the slaughter of the Indians/NAs?

I would be curious to know more about those annals you mentioned. There were railcars full of indians and work camps? What year was that?

oh right so natives didnt slaughter whole white towns? about the iroquois, you know why they were destroyed? because an iroquois military commander went against their leader and wiped out american towns for no reason, if he listened, today they wouldve been a country, their leader tried for peace but it was all ruined.

Great post!

Just like the Germans the American people have a lot still to realize, accept and apologize for. But its hard when the nation that committed the crimes has
been successfull and has prospered like the US as winners write history. Therefore these huge crimes are downplayed and in the end assigned to the infamous memory hole.

For a bunch of people who think their country is the world moral police, only interested in noble actions and the selfless defence of others are in dire need of history lessons like this.

The US being a very young state (and like said above is one that hasnt been defeated or one that failed yet) has been able to have more say in how its history has been recorded, as its the winners that write history, they have had huge control over what people remember as history.

More ugly moments in US history includes the invasion of the phillipines 1890 something (this stats the anti-imperialist league, includes mark twain). See people knew 100 years ago the US was becoing imperialistic.

Another early example of us intolerance of poverty and the 3rd world....

I forget the exacxt year now, but Corneliuls Vanderbilt sails his yacht into a small harbor in Nicaragua and the locals had the nerve to ask him for taxes... the next day the US navy showes up and levels the town.


About par for the course really.. no surprise there.

Definately not the worst genocide. I can think of a few that were worse

Originally posted by JADESTONE

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by JADESTONE
Native Indian population before they were prosecuted: 100 milion

Native Indian population now: 2 million (approx)

Can you prove there were 100 million NA's living here before other countries came. I would like to see you prove those numbers.

Sorry no NA sites allowed when answering, they tend to blow things into something they are not.

Before you try and flame me, let me tell you I am 1/8th NA so I have nothing against my heritage. I would just like to see some proven facts and figures. Thank you...............

sorry but they did not have demographic census at that time but this is the figure that most scholar agree upon.

Again I stress is the number that important.

Which scholars would those be? Have any names?

If the number was not important to me, I would not have asked for confirmation.

I have a friend of a friend whose uncle heard from his aunt that the numbers were not that high. Get my point; that was meant as a joke.

Anyone can take hearsay and make it into unreliable numbers. In addition your numbers did not account for those that assimilated into the general American culture on their own as is my case.

The way you tried to make it sound is that Americans are solely responsible for the low numbers at this time when they were not.

[edit on 2/4/2005 by shots]

[edit on 2/4/2005 by shots]

Lets see in america I think the Spanish started killing Indians first then it was the british and the french and the mexicans and the indians liked to kill each other and then the americans after they killed british soldiers and then french and then mexicans and indians, all the while indians were killing all of the previously mentioned groups of people.

So now who owes who an apology?

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
All I want to know is when will the government pay me reparitions for forcing my great X 4 grandfather to release his slaves after abolition? I figure the amount has got to be in the millions; adjusted for inflation.

Am I the only one who caught this? Wow! I haven't heard that one before.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Lets see in america I think the Spanish started killing Indians first then it was the british and the french and the mexicans and the indians liked to kill each other and then the americans after they killed british soldiers and then french and then mexicans and indians, all the while indians were killing all of the previously mentioned groups of people.

So now who owes who an apology?

That is why in all my posts, I refered to the "killers" as Europeans. It was/is a combined efforts of many countries.
As to apologies, well if you go by the history of the world...... never will happen other than a "wave of the hand" and a "pooh pooh" from thw world.
Remember, the North American Natives were not even considered to be "human" officialy until the 1950's. Prior to that, if a European /African / Asian were to have killed an native american, they would not even get a ticket!

Originally posted by mpeake

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
All I want to know is when will the government pay me reparitions for forcing my great X 4 grandfather to release his slaves after abolition? I figure the amount has got to be in the millions; adjusted for inflation.

Am I the only one who caught this?

Wow!

I haven't heard that one before.

Even the white man was not paid reparations for the slaves they had to release. Apparently some NA's think they are special for one reason or another.

shots:
Even the white man was not paid reparations for the slaves they had to release. Apparently some NA's think they are special for one reason or another.
I would not go so far as to say that the native americans are expecting anything and they are not thinking that they are special. Over the last few decades, the only things that the NA's have actually faught for has been the rights and lands that have been promised to them in both treaties and to have the rights that these treaties grant them such as the reservations be considered as soverign land as is outlined in the treaties.
In many cases of the last few decades, these rights have been erroded if not completely ignored. Especially when minerals and other materials are discovered on NA land that both the American goverment and corproate america covet.

Ok, heres a thought...who cares? Yes the Indians got screwed, so did the blacks, the jews, etc. The list goes on. WHO CARES ???? Your talking about 300 years ago. You are not a "survivor". You werent there. You have nothing to do with any of it. Why do any balcks,Indians,jews,etc. deserve a dime in compensation? Its rediculous. Noone alive today had anything to do with what happened to your 10 times removed great grandparents.
I shouldnt be help responsible, nor should you receive a dime.

Life is about survival of the fittest. Sometimes, people get screwed in the process. Im not advocating genocide, but for gods sake people, get over it. It was 300 years ago. Its irrelevant. Quit blaming your life sucking now, on history, It only sucks because you allowed it to....Its not the white mans fault. Blame rap,whiskey and casinos. Those are your enemies. Not whitey...