schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

a reply to: sapien82

Well sapien82, although you are absolutely right that it is difficult to have a nuanced communication via correspondence, it is far from impossible...

But for it to work, you have to have a depth of knowledge of the language language concerned. Since the language with which I am most familiar is English, I elected to delve right into it, and read and write extensively, so that I CAN communicate emotionally, as well as in matters of dry fact. Some of my poetry, for example, is INCREDIBLY emotive. But I do not believe I would be capable of writing in an emotionally resonant fashion, were it not for the fact that I studied the language carefully, did not squander my childhood by devoting time to mindlessness, but instead to absorbing vast quantities of data.

Getting ones priorities right early on, really helps.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

So using Ebonics to teach these people

But the actual suggestion by the person who did the research as an undergraduate in the very slanted article in the OP didn't suggest anything of the sort. You seem to want it to be the case that they did suggest that though don't you? Subtle hint: the article that suggested what you believe talked about three students saying they could express themselves best in the speech that they were comfortable with were labelled 'snowflakes' in the article. Does that give you any idea about how fair and balanced it is? It took a study that showed that in creative writing people spoke best in the manner in which they were most comfortable, oh, a little bit like - let's say DH Lawrence or even Shakespere.

Much ado about nothing, but lots of outrage from people who don't even look for the actual source.

Generally speaking, I cannot believe that this thread has reached page 24 already. What is nice, though, is that we all understand what we're saying to each other because we are using a common language--imagine that, 24 pages that prove the point that many of us are trying to make.

a reply to: crazyewok

Absolutely correct. The dumber the better.

Educated people complaint about everything and are too hard to control. Dumb them down now!

a reply to: SlapMonkey

mentioned it earlier, but i have known quite a few jamaicans in my life. I have the hardest time understanding their perfectly fine English.

We speak the exact same language, same words, same everything. Accent makes it almost impossible, though.

LOL, one local once asked if a jamaican lady who worked for us was from Mexico. It was a running joke for awhile that she was from Mexico.

First off I really want to congratulate you guys for making the second half of this thread, interesting and without the racialist bull sht seen in the first half of this topic so far , I mean that!!, ...yes the world is at this very moment in terms of language, English is very important to commerce and culture, sorry French and Italian folks , while romantic it take a back seat to English, in the near future it maybe Mandarin ,I thought it would be Japanese..buut I am not regretful for learning Japanese..albeit my Japanese is nuff to be desired ..hetaksooo!! , a thousand yrs ago, one would be better off speaking Arabic, a thousand yrs earlier it would have been Roman, and before that , Greek, and before that Egyptian and so the world turns.

a reply to: crazyewok

Ebonics is just another way the Black community oppresses itself!

Is it perhaps a way of showing defiance? In the end, the only thing that matters is that it is holding people back and down. I think much of it came more from rap music rather than actual language that was used at home. Do Families really call their loved ones Hoe and Bitch on a regular basis? I hope not but I really don't know our community seems not to have any black people and I have spoken to few in my whole lifetime, those few spoke perfect English happily!

originally posted by: sapien82

Let them speak in ebonics if they like , what difference does it make , as long as they learn and understand the english language then who cares right ?

So you're saying they only need to be trained enough to follow instructions? Because that's all they could do if they couldn't speak intelligible English in that scenario.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: crazyewok

Ebonics is just another way the Black community oppresses itself!

Is it perhaps a way of showing defiance? In the end, the only thing that matters is that it is holding people back and down. I think much of it came more from rap music rather than actual language that was used at home. Do Families really call their loved ones Hoe and Bitch on a regular basis? I hope not but I really don't know our community seems not to have any black people and I have spoken to few in my whole lifetime, those few spoke perfect English happily!

Seaworthy no!! only the crassest of folks getaway with that, there are moms and grand moms that will slap the taste outta your mouth uttering such words in front of them, the truth is black dialect varies from region to region and is not slang, slang exist on it's own terms, I don't care what some folks here think it is, we know the difference between slang and regular non conformist English, Bill O Reilly had a shock of his life when he found out that Blk folks in a Harlem restaurant didn't yell out git me ma Ice tea Mfkr, and that it was like any other restaurant in any other neighborhood,such is my experience for a life time, while O Reilly was slumming with Al Sharpton in Sylvia's Restaurant.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: SBMcG

Most human beings find value in one another, be it the quirks of speech, the creative output, the fellowship, the meeting of minds.

If you can't see the value in an inherently rich outpouring of human cognitive process then I'm afraid that is on you and your own lack of imagination.

Intentionally mongrelizing and degrading a well-established and ancient language does not constitute "value" to me. It represents willful and intentional ignorance. It is not a "rich outpouring of human cognitive process", it is personal sabotage on an epic scale.

i have as much (if not more) "imagination" than anyone you know. If I didn't, I would not be successful at what I do for a living.

The bottom line is, this is about race, social meddling by the Left, and the reality of the market place.

If I chose to mongrelize a language like Swahili, are you telling me employers should go out of their way to accommodate me on the grounds that even though I was utterly useless to them as an employee, my incomprehensible babbling was simply a "rich outpouring of human cognitive process"?

originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: SBMcG
a reply to: dragonridr

I could care less if I'm called "racist". It's not "racist" to voice my considered opinion that Ebonics is not worthy of ANY special attention other than to be eliminated from the user's lexicon while they're young.

There is no redeeming value in Ebonics.

Well unfortunately its a reality of their upbringing. As such it needs to be taken into account when trying to educate certain students. They are going to need more help since its very hard to unlearn things your parents teach you. If you explain things to a child in a way they can understand they are more likely to retain the information. And no one said ebonics in any way is benefitia its simply a reality.

My parents taught me proper English and the enunciation thereof, and to embrace education as a way of improving myself.

Same here and I'm very glad of it.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jahari

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
a reply to: EvillerBob

force them to live with limitations?

i hate this idea that if you dont do something in life perfectly you are failed to doom. that is 1000% false.

life is about creating what you want to. doing what you want. i personally have the believe that no matter what you look like talk like etc you can turn out to be a millionaire. doing whatever the hell you wanted like creating a new invention or starting a business whatever the case may be

stop trying to change people because they dont fill some close minded mold that you CREATED in your own mind of how they should act, dress, look, etc!!!

They already fill the mold of Rapper/Athlete. Those are the only legit (not illegal) careers many strive for to make their millions. What happens when theres too many rappers or athletes?

Then we become doctors, architects, teachers, etc. Where are you going with this? Your post shows how ignorant you are when it comes to black America. Turn off the TV.

I'm sorry, its Black America that tells young kids to not do "white things" to be succesful, which is probably why a low percentage of Black America is successful.

If your not black you are in no way qualified to say what black parents tell their kids.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Jahari

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
a reply to: EvillerBob

force them to live with limitations?

i hate this idea that if you dont do something in life perfectly you are failed to doom. that is 1000% false.

life is about creating what you want to. doing what you want. i personally have the believe that no matter what you look like talk like etc you can turn out to be a millionaire. doing whatever the hell you wanted like creating a new invention or starting a business whatever the case may be

stop trying to change people because they dont fill some close minded mold that you CREATED in your own mind of how they should act, dress, look, etc!!!

They already fill the mold of Rapper/Athlete. Those are the only legit (not illegal) careers many strive for to make their millions. What happens when theres too many rappers or athletes?

Then we become doctors, architects, teachers, etc. Where are you going with this? Your post shows how ignorant you are when it comes to black America. Turn off the TV.

Sure.


But you wont be a doctor with you can not communicate in clear english.


I have worked with many professional black people and they all have one thing in common, aside from there secound native language or slang they can talk in clear and precise english as well.

Duh!!

Next lets fix redneck speak.

I find it more offensive.

ustacould?

originally posted by: Lysergic
Next lets fix redneck speak.

I find it more offensive.

ustacould?

Most are so inbred is that even possible?


Sorry couldn't help myself

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Lysergic
Next lets fix redneck speak.

I find it more offensive.

ustacould?

Most are so inbred is that even possible?


Sorry couldn't help myself

Incest is best,Relatively speaking. See what you started lol

originally posted by: Jahari
If your not black you are in no way qualified to say what black parents tell their kids.

Is this Version 2 of the Race Card? The less confrontational one where you don't have to explain why you just called somebody racist? I keep hearing this over and over and over and over in any thread discussing race. It's the ultimate go to when you have no intelligent response to an argument somebody is making.

For anybody reading that also notices this absurd argument, I think I have a suitable rebuttal: if I am not in a position to be discussing issues affecting the black community because of my race, what further obligation do I have other than recognising those problems exist? Why is finding a root cause, providing funding or reparations to fix the problem, or even asking any followup question to a person of colour's perceived plight when they express it openly within my proximity, ANY of my business?

Or should I just be a good little white boy and "recognise the problem AND do something to fix it!" (but not be allowed to do anything but repeat what I have heard and promote it to to others, or donate money to the cause in question)?

No, I won't be doing that. The time for complicit silence is LONG gone. People of colour don't deserve that special treatment more so than any other group does. If after explaining all of that I still don't have a right to offer advice to black parents in the black community, I'd rather just not discuss race at all.

Those are my terms. Too bad if that offends you or you don't like it.

a reply to: EvillerBob

If you follow the rest of my post im in defense of the idea to let students speak in ebonics if it pleases them but as long as they learn the curriculum the same as everyone else as it is the teaching standard then sure , wouldnt it be a choice for the student and not the teacher if they not only wish to speak in ebonics but also learn of its history , its usage , its roots , its evolution in their spare time as well as in class.

However on the flip side isnt the education system nothing more than giving children instructions to follow, no matter what they are learning.

I dont agree with your assertion that Im suggesting they cant achieve anything without understanding english.
I think you have taken the wrong idea from my posts , im for the children learning both english and ebonics
Im not acutally sure why you think otherwise can you elaborate what brought you to that conclusion ?

a reply to: sapien82

If I were a teacher, my fear would be that the use of Ebonics would rub off on other students who were not originally burdened with that bad habit and drag them down too.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: EvillerBob

I dont agree with your assertion that Im suggesting they cant achieve anything without understanding english.

Good, because that isn't what I said.

You said that we should let them speak as they wish, as long as they can learn and understand English.

If you have someone who can understand English but cannot speak it (ie, the situation you suggested we should allow) then you have someone who is only capable of taking instructions. They can't give feedback, or make suggestions, or complain, or do anything else except listen and do as they are told.

Do you know what we call people like that? Slaves.

By supporting the drive to let these poor kids wallow in that particular linguistic mire, you are promoting and supporting the establishment of a modern social slavery class. You are deliberately kicking the ladder out from under them and calling it an act of kindness.

I don't believe in turning people into slaves; I support challenging every child to become something greater than the sum of their upbringing.