Can monsters ever be reformed?

In my opinion no and as a preference any convicted child rapist/molester child killer etc... should not be attempted to be reformed it does not work, and straight up death is too quick... their victims have to suffer for life and so should they.

This is where i will prob get flamed but in my opinion convicted child rapist, murderers etc... punishment would be to have various cancers and diseases forced on them and then have experimental cures and procedures done to see what works and what doesn't work if they die... oh well onto the next one.

I wouldn't consider this unethical as they became sub human the second they decided to destroy a kids life for their own gratification imo, and at least this way there is a return on the tax burden of keeping them housed and fed etc...

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

Do you believe Monsters are forever beyond reform?

That depends on what made them a monster. It also depends on what you mean by reform.

I do believe that some people are too broken to be fixed.

I have no objection to the death penalty in principle, but many objections in practice. My principle objection is that I don't trust the government with the power of life or death. Too many competing interests. Too many mistakes. Unless you have caught the bad guy standing over the still warm bodies with bloody knife in hand, screaming "I'm glad I killed the bastards", surrounded by witnesses, and with the whole thing caught on camera start to finish, I would have difficulty trusting any conviction with the absolute certainty I would need to support the death penalty.

Taking the above statement into account, I would support the execution of the murderers of Lee Rigby, accepting that only the aftermath was caught on camera:
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Dark Ghost

You are looking at this from a spiritual perspective, evil vs. good. The issue is a physical one. Some of these monsters are actually wired differently in their brains than the rest of us. You can't "heal" them because they aren't broken. They just work differently and in a manner that law abiding society sees as criminal and evil.

The pain and suffering the victims family goes through and the fact the victim can never come back and the chance another innocent life could be harmed leads me to fully support capital punishment.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I change my stance occasionally on the death penalty due to this particular case.
In Pennsylvania (1993) there was a 26 year old woman who was shot by a neighbor (some would say the phrase 'in cold blood').
The perpetrator (who pled guilty by reason of mental illness) was 17 at the time, a special education student and made claims to 'voices' telling him to commit the crime. When it was done, he attempted to hide/conceal/get rid of the evidence of the crime which implies to me that (perhaps at that moment anyway) that he realized what he had done was wrong both morally and criminally.
He was sentenced to life in prison w/out (no chance ever) parole.
Juveniles charged with murder were sent directly to criminal court so, there were two choices the judge could have made. The one he chose or the death penalty.
Would the family of the victim have felt justified if the death penalty would have been imposed? Perhaps some of them would.

The juvenile (only a few shorts months from becoming a legal adult) must have possessed some sort of emotional/intellectual/developmental issues hence being placed in a 'special education' program at school in the 90s. I work with intellectually and developmentally disabled adults and it is very common for them to also have a secondary diagnosis of some form of mental illness. Some have the potential to become quite dangerous and hostile as a result of the symptoms that may present such as auditory/visual hallucinations, irrational/highly excitable/impulsve emotional thinking. Quite often, one's life and limb can be at risk intervening and trying to keep that person safe. After an episode, quite often, they immediately feel remorse and sadness and beg forgiveness. I'm afraid that things are only going to get worse as, in TN at least, folks who are patients at mental health facilities are being released to community members, if their primary diagnosis is one of a developmental disability, as the financial burden on that branch of government health care is too great. They are shifting the cost, if you will to another department.

Knowing some history/personal experiences of the psychological disorders (mental illness) in the disabled (especially children) going untreated or misdiagnosed/mistreated these days, it isn't hard for me to understand that it must have been an even greater issue/problem 20+ years ago.

My point is, the perpetrator has made numerous appeals and requests for post conviction relief and I'm not so sure that with proper treatment and supervision that now, at the age of 41, he would not have the potential/ability to now become a properly functioning member of society. If he had received proper treatment in those developmental years, would he have committed the crime? We'll never know but, we can learn from him and people like him and perhaps move forward positively looking for answers and solutions not just relief and revenge...although those may have their place as well.

Modern science/medicine has taught us many treatments in the past 20+ years and what may have been a hopeless case many years ago could now be turned around and used as a tool for study and perhaps even a success story for one human being and a glimmer of hope that all may not be lost and peace, forgiveness and change can occur even under the worst of circumstances?

I don't know/am not sure that to put to death or life in prison without (ever an opportunity) for parole is always the correct answer in every case of murder and I just don't always see how an eye for an eye can help us evolve or learn why these things occur or if there would ever be some sort of treatment/rehabilitation for some of these people. There are crimes, IMO, that likely do deserve the death penalty and that is where my confusion begins again. I am definitely a fence sitter these days. Sad, but true.

I am certain that I am grateful to not have ever had to decide someone else's fate.

Well HUmans arent monsters. They can exhibit mostrous behaviour but they are still humans. SO no since monsters are not real they cant be reformed.

Can monsters ever be reformed?

No. If you'd ever been around a monster you'd know that.

Watch some YT vids on Aileen Wuornos and Arthur Shawcross if you don't believe me.

To answer the OP. Yes, and no.

The point of prison is both to punish, but also to attempt to reform.

I do not agree with capital punishment, regardless of the crime. Where "monsters" are not reformed they should stay in prision. In the UK a small selection of criminals are on "whole life orders" where they will never be released.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Why do they do this crap with lethal injection and electric chairs when we have simple technology that can do the job more reliably for a fraction of the cost?

A properly operated gallows can cleanly execute people with no mess. When the prisoner is weighed beforehand they know exactly how much rope to use so it breaks the neck without tearing off the head. Death is instant and bloodless.

A firing squad could also execute an inmate instantly and only cost the salaries of 5 people for a firing squad, plus ammunition. Annual salaries of about $50,000 for 5 executioners is still cheaper than lethal injection, which costs millions!!! Plus you could get a heck of a lot more use out of a firing squad working 40 hours a week. How long does it take to do an execution? 5 minutes?

Both of these methods were used as standard in the US for over two centuries. Why did they fall out of favor in recent years?

I've heard so many horror stories about botched injections and electrocutions that I just don't understand why we pay so much money for methods that are so unreliable.

As for the morality of it, yes I am in 100% support of death sentence and think it should be used far more often in our court system than it is. Punishments should be harsher. Too many repeat offenders get paroled and paroled and paroled only to come back in again. They are a drain on the system and should be executed to remove them from the system.

originally posted by: paraphi
To answer the OP. Yes, and no.

The point of prison is both to punish, but also to attempt to reform.

I do not agree with capital punishment, regardless of the crime. Where "monsters" are not reformed they should stay in prision. In the UK a small selection of criminals are on "whole life orders" where they will never be released.

You cannot "reform" a miswired brain.

There are plenty of YT videos on the study of brain defects in psychopaths. The amygdala is malfunctioning and there is reduced activity in the frontal lobe, which is where moral considerations are weighed.

Nature and nurture both play a role in the thinking of a psychopath, but stepping in to take the role of nature to reform or rehab doesn't work. You cannot rewire the brain of a psychopath.