Is the European Union Worth It Or Should We End It?

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: crayzeed
I can't remember the blokes name, he is notorious for saying stuff that people don't like (has white hair, posh voice and often wears glasses) but he isn't wrong. I think the nail in the coffin for Breiti not happening was when Cameron ran to Obama and tried to sway people with Obama threatening the UK saying "You'll go to the back of the line" that peeved a ton of people that I know and I'm positive it would've done the same for most of my fellow countrymen. I'm proud that we voted Breixt and we will make a great success of it in the long run. We can debate the good and bad of Brexit but please make sure the blame is shared on both sides.

Sounds similar to a speech I heard by David Starkey.

The fact is, neither side will ever back down and this is a pointless debate that will only lead to arguments that shall never be resolved.

There are good and bad points...people will lie and pretend they're looking at it from a collective standpoint but in my experience most peoples arguments tend to be more selfish.

I remember the plight of fishing villages - entire communities destroyed by EU legislation. I spent a lot of time listening to guys like Nigel Farage and Tony Benn...people more educated than me, who know the EU better than me, and are in a position to tell me what's what.

I can't argue with or contradict them, nor will I attempt to.

But when you try and apply a harmonised group of directives and legislation to a collection of countries, each with a different landscape, both political and agricultural, you got issues.

For example - renewables...they issue directives that specify how much energy generated by a member state should be renewable. Wind farms are more logical here in Scotland than say, the south of France or Spain.

They issue too many directives...it's not necessary for trade at all. They're going too far and want too much control over petty things like the wording on a carton of orange juice or the size and shape of a potato.

To me it's an ideal setup for large corporations - an ideal way to quash any potential competition, large corporations can lobby to have these types of legislation passed. If a small company has to destroy all of its stock, which has become a toxic asset due to legislation that has been passed which renders their stock untradeable simply due to the workding on the packaging, there's a problem.

It has been great for large businesses...bad for smaller business, many of which have failed due to this idiotic beurocracy.

For one, I don't care about the design, wording or size of packaging, or if my banana's are slightly bent or straight. I care if they're reasonably priced...and of late, nothing is reasonably priced.

Couple that with the mass unemployment, homelessness....I mean the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding isn't as sweet as it used to be.

Something has to change.

a reply to: Tulpa

Oh I do agree with that. I completely agree with that. The UK politicians loved having a "ghost" in the back as a scapegoat for cuts and the attacks that they've spent at least five or six years on the poor and disabled, that I cannot deny or argue with but there is blame on both sides, a large portion of people in and out of the EU just want to blame those who voted Brexit (like myself) for being uninformed or racist etc. There is blame on both sides but again I agree with your point about politicians having someone to blame but they'll replace it with someone else.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

That's the bloke lol. Yep you got him. it was driving me nuts you have no idea how many historians I've been looking up trying to remember him and yes I agree with all your points.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

Your wrong. The UK government have never, never accepted any EU ruling without wanting to alter it for their advantage. I don't care what any "expert" says about the UK. You are getting mixed up with the people of the UK and the government of the UK and they are two very different entities.
The UK populace couldn't give two hoots about "oh we fought the Germans in the 2WW so we don't want to be governed by them" BS. The majority of the people just want to go to work, pay their due and hope to have enough money left to enjoy themselves. This is proven many, many times over with our workforce working for German, French, Japanese companies.
As for the immigrant "problem" the UK never signed the Schengen agreement so the laws for immigrants the UK government has ALLOWED to operate. The same with the human rights act. Just because the UK government has allowed it to be hijacked by the wrong people does not mean it's a wrong law.
Our government has allowed these thing to happen to us (including not signing the Schengen but going along with it for their own ends and including not joining the single currency) including allowing erroneous information supposedly from the EU to justify their stance of Brexit.
The Greeks knew thousands of years ago with Aesop and his bundle of sticks, we are better in a group than alone.

a reply to: FuggleHop

Theirs only one successful union in this world and its the USA

Australians wouldn't agree with that.

One of the plus points is harmonisation of the electrical systems and standards, which is definitely a good thing.

I reckon we can all agree that this is a step forward.

Then you have to ask yourself why countries like China, who are not a member state...probably sell more electrical goods than anyone else in Europe...isn't that odd?

And people still believe that the EU has made these things more affordable, yet people will happily go on ebay or Amazon and buy dangerous, inferior goods.

Some of the harmonisation is great, and progressive in the true sense of the word. Yet people still choose to opt for the cheaper, more dangerous option.

Makes you think.

Still, as a maintenance technician I can appreciate things like this and understand why it's useful - ever worked with a foreign electrician? Or an old, outdated wiring system?

I'm anti-EU but I dig that stuff, we could have done that without creating all of this beurocratic mess...the biggest trick they pulled is convincing us that this is the only way. If we want to standardise an electrical system, or come up with a standard for the sizing of nuts and bolts...then we can, nobody is stopping us.

If china can produce a 13-amp UK plug or socket...so can Spain, France, Italy...this has always been the case. The EU is an un-necessary, bloated mess who done more damage to small business than anything else.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

Two stars from me on this page

originally posted by: doobydoll

People who voted remain argue with me that leaving the EU will see an end to human rights in this country, we'll be at the total mercy of the cruel tory government that will inflict untold horrors on citizens with impunity.

We have kind of the same view in America here with the left that feel that people need a lot of over site by the Federal Government. The Federal Government should control everything to be truly successful and state level Government would just create 50 different types of environments with none of them being good. With you all it is big Government across countries and with us it is the Feds across 50 states.

I just do not think people really get it that we can Govern ourselves efficiently without huge over site that just turns us all into numbers and statistics.

a reply to: Swills

Its a financial agreement. Not a union of peoples.

A currency. A way to bill others for security forces and other "expenses" of empire.

A means of controlling wealth in Europe that always saved more than banks liked.

Its a business agreement between mafiosos

There should be a EU. Just not the EU.

Unity is not bad, unless thats just another word for business as usual in an already unnatural, ruined world...now with perks for culprits.

a reply to: grainofsand

Much obliged.

Contrary to a set of outlandish claims I once made, kinda for a laugh and kinda to prove a point, Tony Benn is a hero of mine.

He was a huge Euro skeptic since the 70's and very vocal spokesman for the cause. One of my favourite political speeches which I like to watch now and again to remnd myself that it's sometimes best to listen to thems what know better:



That's not to say I haven't done my own research or simply believe what I'm told. There's more to Benn than this speech, a bit crazy at times but always for the people and I believe he was 100% sincere in that regard. The man was a touch of class...a touch of both upper and working class and a rare breed, indeed.

This speech always brings me home...when I find myself questioning my own views, you ain't forming a proper viewpoint if you don't challenge yourself and your own views. But this always brings me back down to earth, Tony would have been proud of us on June 23rd last year, sadly he passed in 2014.

I know Farage ain't a popular guy, but you can't deny his experiences over in Europe and his little speeches in European parliament are not only witty but often bang on the money. It's the responses, or lack thereof, that are telling. Farage lays it bare in front of everyone and in return gets mostly catty swipes and ignorant jibes - rarely does he get a clear or meaningful response, this fact tells us more than any statement made by any politician.

I reckon Farage has been painted with a rather dirty brush and it's somewhat unwarranted. The Scots mostly hate him but I can't help but like the man, his interests aren't specifically political but financial and economical. Some might say that's a conflict of interests, but from a economic perspective - which is a rather important perspective - his knowledge and experience of the situation in EU is very valuable and people should give the guy a break. I've never once heard him say anything I thought to be racist or bigoted, he deals in facts but is branded with almost KKK like status.

He gets the same treatment as Trump and a few other people who are often too honest and brash for some to handle but we need these people. The minute we stop hearing from people like them, completely, is the minute we pass the point of no return.

Cheers.

a reply to: crayzeed

Nope. Sorry but you're wrong. Our laws are being changed almost constantly due to EU interference. We have changed our laws so much that the UK government has already said that after Brexit almost all EU Laws will become UK laws so to think that we haven't taken any rulings or laws is a joke, just another mixed up notion by someone who might not get the point. And I wish I could agree but you're wrong about a few things the most important is how how you think the people of the UK see the EU and yes a large number see it as something controlled by Germany (even though I didn't say Germany ruled it but that it was a dream of Hitler).

So according to you, the UK government didn't sign the treaty but accepted it's rule anyway? Which is sort of the same thing, the only different is that it isn't a signed treaty, that's it. As long as they kept to the law I really doubt it'd be an issue that'd come up. Oh and never said the Human Rights (something the Brits helped create by the way as a standard law for all) was the wrong law, it is a law the EU have abused to allow terrorists and hate priests to stay in a country using said law and yet ignore the how it might affect the rest of the country.

a reply to: Swills

The EU is doomed... I t cant be compared to the USA union ,
because the cartel that run the EU are not Elected to govern.

The laws are made by this cartel and always get through.

I'm waiting for marine la pen to win the French presidential
election and then France will have their Frexit and that will be that

THE END hooray

Swills:

The EU has been working since WW2.

Well, you did say you didn't know about the EU. The EU did not begin immediately after the war, it came about much later in practice. The EU is a political ideology, not a country, so bear that in mind for future reference. The EU is an ideological union forced upon the various European peoples and us Brits by those who are following an agenda which is part of globalisation.

It was introduced stealthy, hidden behind the concept of a common 'trade-only' market, which is a good idea. By standardising trading regulations between all common market members, businesses and industries could import and export their products more efficiently and at the same costs and speed. Fair enough, I'm all for that.

What I don't want, nor will I accept, is an ideological 'superstate' that replaces every country's sovereignty, their own laws and rules and regulations, and forces countries to accept unfiltered immigrants. You don't need 'free movement ' of peoples from non-member countries to do trade.

Brexit was never about anti-Europe or against the continental Europeans, it was about anti-EU ideology, and the takeover of sovereignty and self-determination, and the control of one's own borders, and the ability to be able to trade with whomever one wished to trade with, without being penalised in any way. All the terrorism you are seeing on continental Europe, and here in Britain, is down to the EU's unfiltered immigrant ideology of 'free movement' and 'open borders.

Fortunately, Britain pushed back, and other European countries will do the same. The EU ideology will be killed off, like other unworkable ideologies.

I wonder whether a well placed nuclear strike could decapitate the EU....

EU military forces for each member state needs severe cuts:

Land forces 100% cut / abolition / constitutional prohibition.
Air force and navy 50% cut
Intelligence and classified budget 90% cut.

Funny to see how the EU races to pretend their operation against illegal migration failed, when actually they are the main responsible for illegal migration towards the EU.

One of the main promoters of illegal migration in The Netherlands for example is minister Karin Ollongren. As all good noble women in Europe, has been running and supporting the wild immigration clown show. Too bad the objective of this wild clownshow is escaping the grasp of the EU criminal slavery enterprise.

The idea is sound the implementation was atrocious.

Pretty much everything past the original trade agreement has been twisted (in this dumb yanks opinion), and seeing the red tape machine in brussels hand out proclamations like a king to still sovereign nations telling they will follow or else...

Well in my opinion that is screaming that the time is past for the EU to be tossed aside and for people to try again.