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Have conservatives become more socially liberal than "liberals"?

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posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Kali74

The left are proponents of wealth redistrobution which is NOT a liberal principle.

Liberal principles are principles of freedom.




liberal principles also include fairness...the wealth distribution has all the money going to the top 1%, and now they own close to 50% of the entire nations personal assets




posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

Neat. My point was the unequal use of the term "liberal." People want to use generalizations and broad-brush words like "liberal" because they can't bring themselves to use other terms like "extreme left" because that takes away their crutch of being able to shut down an entire side of debate with a dirty word like "liberal."

But then those same people will turn around and use the same dirty word "liberal" to describe how freedom loving they themselves are.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Kali74

The left are proponents of wealth redistrobution which is NOT a liberal principle.

Liberal principles are principles of freedom.



Incorrect. Far Left wingers are proponents of Socialism, we don't define Socialism the way we were taught in school which, if you follow the rabbit hole from the link I gave you... you would see that placing economic value on labor vs capital is not wealth redistribution, it's just a different economic model than Capitalism. We believe that Socialism is the key to breaking down hierarchies (of which government is the largest) and letting the labor market determine success.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
How does silencing the voice of opposition fit in with the ideas of liber-ty?


so why do you want to silence liberals?


Personally, I don't want to "silence liberals" at all. The more they talk, shout, yell, scream, protest, march, riot, loot, assault, and burn the more they lose.

My hope would be that liberals (and I mean leftists, not traditional Democrats) take it to the next level and continue to demand the "social justice" (wealth re-distribution) they seem to feel entitled to.


it's obvious you personally have never been screwed by the wealthy



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: neo96



Gun control

Isn't that a Democrat thing?

Anyway speaking of Democrats - www.gunsandammo.com...



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

No we aren't.


who aren't what?



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Kali74

The left are proponents of wealth redistrobution which is NOT a liberal principle.

Liberal principles are principles of freedom.



Incorrect. Far Left wingers are proponents of Socialism, we don't define Socialism the way we were taught in school which, if you follow the rabbit hole from the link I gave you... you would see that placing economic value on labor vs capital is not wealth redistribution, it's just a different economic model than Capitalism. We believe that Socialism is the key to breaking down hierarchies (of which government is the largest) and letting the labor market determine success.


How do you feel this looks in a practical manner in the US?

Im not afraid of some socialism. Im just not really in favor, because of the way I understand humans on an individual level. But im always open to have my opinion changed.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Kali74

The left are proponents of wealth redistrobution which is NOT a liberal principle.

Liberal principles are principles of freedom.




liberal principles also include fairness...the wealth distribution has all the money going to the top 1%, and now they own close to 50% of the entire nations personal assets


Well the 14th amendment does give people the right to life,liberty,PROPERTY, and the pursuit of happiness.

Doesn't matter one iota.

However since all money is fiat, and printed out of thin air.

Whining about the one percent is about as intellectually dishonest as it can get.

Anyone that supports such a notion as using the mob to take whatever the hell they want from a minority group of people IS authoritarian, and the antithesis of what the word liberal means.

In this country there is a thing call property rights, and the mob is not entitled to someone elses.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: neo96



Gun control

Isn't that a Democrat thing?

Anyway speaking of Democrats - www.gunsandammo.com...


Sure is a democrat thing.

Since they all except the 86 ban come from them.

The 90s and Bill Clinton created the background check.

The first time in over 200 years the people had to get the states permission to practice their right.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Kali74

The left are proponents of wealth redistrobution which is NOT a liberal principle.

Liberal principles are principles of freedom.




liberal principles also include fairness...the wealth distribution has all the money going to the top 1%, and now they own close to 50% of the entire nations personal assets


No, you aren't talking about "fair" here; your'e talking about equality, specifically about equality of outcome.

And since you seem to prize it above liberty, you will lean left.

People who prize individual liberty, will lean right.

Personal liberty and perfect equality cannot coexist to the degree each side wants.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You said:


the extreme left are as morose as the extreme right. Each is racist, violent, and ugly, just in opposite ways.


I'm far Left and I'm rejecting your statement



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
How does silencing the voice of opposition fit in with the ideas of liber-ty?


so why do you want to silence liberals?


Personally, I don't want to "silence liberals" at all. The more they talk, shout, yell, scream, protest, march, riot, loot, assault, and burn the more they lose.

My hope would be that liberals (and I mean leftists, not traditional Democrats) take it to the next level and continue to demand the "social justice" (wealth re-distribution) they seem to feel entitled to.


it's obvious you personally have never been screwed by the wealthy


When you say "the wealthy", do you mean that segment of our population that creates all the jobs, pays all the taxes, creates economic activity through their investment, provides the vast majority of charitable contributions, and set something of an aspirational standard for the rest of us?

What is "wealthy", BTW?



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:08 PM
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edit on 21-4-2017 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:09 PM
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a reply to: neo96

The point is that this is liberals vs conservative thread, not Democrats vs. Republicans. And besides you've just admitted that not all Democrats are anti-gun. Small steps.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Right now it's not very feasible. It's the end result of a very long road.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: toysforadults

Liberalism is now a conservative position. Free markets, free speech, freedom of religion, etc. are rarely defended by American liberals.


Freedom of religion in the conservative context of recent years has been mostly about those in the majority religious group using purported religious convictions to discriminate against those they don't approve of. In fact, the largest expansion of civil liberties since the Civil Rights Era was fought tooth and nail by "conservative" groups in the Religious Right and the GOP as a party.

Here's an example of religious freedom when it comes to these assholes:

Three GOP Candidates Speaking At Hate Monger's Bigotry Fest


The Supreme Court of the United States recently legalized homosexual marriage in all 50 states in the Obergefell V. Hodges decision. Are you ready to face persecution for opposing the homosexual agenda?


That's from a "religious freedoms conference" hosted by a man who has stated on multiple occassions that gay folks should be subjected to OT punishment for the sin of being homosexual, primarily stoning. It would be easy to dismiss this as simply a one off gathering of zealots and wingnuts if three GOP candidates including Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindal, hadn't spoken there.

When it comes to freedom of speech? Sure, there are a lot of easily triggered college kids suckled on CRT who delight in taking undue offense at perceived slights but what group has done and continues to do more to promote and expand freedom of speech than the ACLU — a non-partisan but decidely leftist organization. And when is it that many self-described "conservatives" become concerned with free speech? Usually about the time some GOP politician gets caught up in a scandal where he said something overtly bigotted or a reality tv star gets suspended from his show for saying something publicly that reflects negatively on his employer. Many of the same folks who cry foul in those instance of "PC backlash" — where freedom of speech isn't even the actual issue at hand — are quick to accuse people of sedition for not supporting the current President.

Don't be so quick to judge tens of millions of us based on the extreme minority of non-liberal leftists who are constantly the subject of right-wing propaganda campaigns.

What about freedom of the press? How many posts are there on ATS from self-described conservatives asking why the government can't shutdown left-leaning outlets? Again, these same folks care about "freedom of the press" only when it comes to outrage over attempts at tracking Macedonian "fake news" sites or Google pulling ad revenue from their favorite news blog. Again, as with the typical outrage over "free speech," the same folks often confuse business decisions with an infringement on civil liberties by the state.

I believe that on the whole, Americans, regardless of any party affiliation or self-description, are in fact far more liberal today than they were at any point in the past. I would also argue that by any measure, more people are enjoying more civil liberties than at any point in the history of the US.
edit on 2017-4-21 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

Sorry, but I wouldn't feel at all welcome by the far left for the simple fact of who and what I am, and I'd be afraid that if they ever won their way, I'd be among the first groups to be sacrificed for their utopian dreams.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

"Far" vs "Extreme".

Unless you are one of the ones throwing bottles at riots, and generally lashing out at humans and not a power structure or something at least logical. In which case i would be quite disappointed, honestly.

The socialists on the far left...they are like bernie. He's not a bad guy, we just have differing opinions. No biggie to me. I bet we could find a middle ground somewhere, he and I.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG

I'm surprised you can even hear anything the liberals are saying over you're own complaining and the b*tch fest which is still happening on the right.

For 8 years we've had to listen to the endless complaining from the right about how Obama is destroying the universe, being racist, saying anti-christian things, hating white people, hating black people, etc. On and on it goes.

Then you win and take the lead but does the complaining stop??? No, I think it may have even become worse even.

I've never seen anything like it. Even when you have control and are in the drivers seat, still the b*tch fest continues as you keep complaining and blaming everything on the left. Who now aren't even in control anymore. But does that stop any of the whining??? NOPE.

Christian Right still hating on gays and LGBTQ.
Still calling Liberals Marxists, Communists, etc. who are destroying America and the source of all the worlds problems.

Seriously, when are you people ever happy enough to just STFU and enjoy the fact that you've been put in charge??? Seriously, you're going to miss your change to enjoy being in charge and having the power to change things because you won't stop complaining about the left all the time.

FFS, you won the election. You have all the power. Put a smile on your damn faces and live it up while you have it. You're acting like a bunch of Eeyore's who just can't find your happy place and are hell bent on being in a bad mood all the time.



posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Kali74

The left are proponents of wealth redistrobution which is NOT a liberal principle.

Liberal principles are principles of freedom.




liberal principles also include fairness...the wealth distribution has all the money going to the top 1%, and now they own close to 50% of the entire nations personal assets


That wealth was created by the wealthy, not a bunch of bongo-beating leftists running around calling everyone "racist!"...

Do you even know how wealth is created?

Wealth is not some limited commodity that you can't have just because someone else has it. It is CREATED and there is no upper limit of how much can be created.



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