Have conservatives become more socially liberal than "liberals"?

a reply to: Shamrock6

The op posed a simple question.

That has been repeatedly denied.

Have conservatives become MORE socially liberal?

Considering current events.

liberals have become more authoritarian.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: toysforadults

Ah. The favorite pastime of conservatives. Strawman liberals with shoddy evidence, opinionated reasoning, and circular logic.

PS: You don't sound very liberal in this thread when you judge actual liberals, mr. conservative.

It is a day that ends in Y...

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: toysforadults

Ah. The favorite pastime of conservatives. Strawman liberals with shoddy evidence, opinionated reasoning, and circular logic.

PS: You don't sound very liberal in this thread when you judge actual liberals, mr. conservative.

It is a day that ends in Y...

What language? These days it apparently matters.

originally posted by: ClovenSky

originally posted by: SBMcG
I cannot tell you what liberals are or are not anymore, because their very ideology is based upon wealth re-distribution (theft), the removal of merit-based advancement in our society (everyone loses), their hatred of traditional America (2nd Amendment rights, nuclear family, Christianity, etc...), and their inexplicable support of everything that is bad for America (which is why they never hold power for long).

But I can tell you how this constitutional conservative feels about individual rights...

I follow the literal interpretation of the Constitution as defined through the Original Intent of the Framers. The document itself was clearly intended to be a strong limiting factor on the size and scope of government going forward, as affirmed over and over again in the writings of the Framers.

I have never seen anything in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or writings of the Framers that would give government the "right" to think for you, tell you what to think (and say), tell you what to do with your body, or tell you where you can and cannot go. However, neither does it absolve individuals from responsibility and the consequences of their choices and actions.

As an agnostic I don't really have a dog in the religious freedom hunt, but the Constitution clearly states that the Federal government shall play no role in the establishment of any religion. I also acknowledge that America itself was certainly founded by men who overwhelmingly had very strong Judeo-Christian leanings and were not shy about it.

The Federal government has no business intruding in any way into your personal life. The individual should be free to live the way they choose. However, if that lifestyle creates an economic or social impediment to that individual or others, that is 100% their choice and responsibility. One individual cannot be forced to "accept" the personal choices of another if they find them aberrant.

Obviously, there are hundreds of individual social and economic issues we could address here, but as a basic rule-of-thumb from the perspective of constitutional conservatism, if it is not addressed specifically in the Constitution, it's a states rights issue.

Maximum freedom, personal responsibility, minimal government interference. That was the Original Intent of our Framers.

From a fellow agnostic .... simply brilliant.

The check's in the mail

originally posted by: MysticPearl
Lefties and liberals are two entirely different things. Lefties actively fight against much of what liberals stand for, tolerance and free speech being obvious examples.

And it's quite stupid as they've split their own party and forced your average liberal farther to the right. Most liberals I know don't identify with nor understand what's become of their party where the face of it has taken on a far left radical, lefty stance.

ahh yes, the right defining what the left is or isn't.....and what is this "most liberals I know" stuff.....with your attitude toward liberals, I doubt you "know" any.

a reply to: jimmyx

I am actually a liberal, in the classical Jeffersonian sense of liberal.

This is why I becone defensive when people call the modern left liberals because they are not libertarians.

a reply to: toysforadults

Your premise is absurd, a little googling could have saved you some hyperbole.

Christian Left

Google search return on Liberal Gun Clubs

Now you say that Liberals aren't Liberals but Marxist because they are intolerant of Christianity and guns then you go and link a definition that states: Marxism is the system of socialism of which the dominant feature is public ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange.

Now... can you tell us where that definition talks about intolerance anywhere?

a reply to: neo96

The left becoming authoriatarian would make the conservatives seem more liberal in a side by side conparison.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Shamrock6

The op posed a simple question.

That has been repeatedly denied.

Have conservatives become MORE socially liberal?

Considering current events.

liberals have become more authoritarian.

Are you sure you know what a liberal actually is? I ask because a couple of pages ago you called yourself a liberal due to you being all about freedom.

But now you're right back to talking about how liberals are actually authoritarians. Liberals love freedom, but liberals also are authoritarians that don't like freedom.

I think you need a break and some coffee.

See what happens when one resorts to lumping people under nice tidy labels?

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Shamrock6

The op posed a simple question.

That has been repeatedly denied.

Have conservatives become MORE socially liberal?

Considering current events.

liberals have become more authoritarian.

how's Russia this time of year?.......you seem hell bent on almost every post you write to discredit anyone and anything liberal or even left of center....and yet your freedom of speech to criticize political beliefs, opposite of yours, here on ATS, would never be allowed in an authoritarian government like Russia, or the countless other authoritarian regimes around the world.....

a reply to: Kali74

The left are proponents of wealth redistrobution which is NOT a liberal principle.

Liberal principles are principles of freedom.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Precisely my point.

A liberal can't be authoritarian thefore the modern left is not liberal.

the extreme left are as morose as the extreme right. Each is racist, violent, and ugly, just in opposite ways.

Most of the world is normal, and doesn't care about any of this. Most of you...i had no idea you were political at all 4 years ago. Now you are going around sporting Pepe avatars, or cheeto images in your posts....how many of you really care about any of this when you log off your computer? I mean, beyond looking at the extremes on both sides and spitting....how much of the general gist are you really fired up about?

And why isn't any of that really up for debate? Only these trolling topics seem to really run. That and current events. Which are turned into trollfests, too.

a reply to: toysforadults

This is why I becone defensive when people call the modern left liberals because they are not libertarians.

While you're trying to wrangle intolerance out of the definition of Marxism, give us Lefty's our goddamn word back.

The use of the word libertarian to describe a new set of political positions has been traced to the French cognate, libertaire, coined in a letter French libertarian communist Joseph Déjacque wrote to mutualist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in 1857.[20][21] Déjacque also used the term for his anarchist publication Le Libertaire: Journal du Mouvement Social, which was printed from 9 June 1858 to 4 February 1861 in New York City.[22][23] In the mid-1890s, Sébastien Faure began publishing a new Le Libertaire while France's Third Republic enacted the lois scélérates ("villainous laws"), which banned anarchist publications in France. Libertarianism has frequently been used as a synonym for anarchism since this time.[24][25][26]

Etymology of Libertarian

a reply to: toysforadults

Really?? Another anti-left thread based on nothing but your own personal opinion and perspective on things.

Which of course includes calling liberals, Marxists and communists/socialists. Stating opinions as facts when they aren't and just your average biased whiny complaining.

This never gets old for some of you does it??? I think you all just love to hear yourselves talk, I really do. You generalize way too much and see everything through such myopic lenses it's really just sad. I suggest you get out more and get out of your bubble more often.

a reply to: toysforadults

The modern Left isn't authoritarian.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
the extreme left are as morose as the extreme right. Each is racist, violent, and ugly, just in opposite ways.

Most of the world is normal, and doesn't care about any of this. Most of you...i had no idea you were political at all 4 years ago. Now you are going around sporting Pepe avatars, or cheeto images in your posts....how many of you really care about any of this when you log off your computer? I mean, beyond looking at the extremes on both sides and spitting....how much of the general gist are you really fired up about?

And why isn't any of that really up for debate? Only these trolling topics seem to really run. That and current events. Which are turned into trollfests, too.

Ya!! Good post.

Wish I had more to say. But I don't at the moment.

But Ya. Good post!!

Yay....

Ok, that's it..

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

No we aren't.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: toysforadults

The modern Left isn't authoritarian.

Wall street regulation, the affordable care act forcing every single person in this country to buy a corporate product.

Gun control, Climate regulation.

The modern left is the most authoritarian group of people in existence.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
How does silencing the voice of opposition fit in with the ideas of liber-ty?

so why do you want to silence liberals?

Personally, I don't want to "silence liberals" at all. The more they talk, shout, yell, scream, protest, march, riot, loot, assault, and burn the more they lose.

My hope would be that liberals (and I mean leftists, not traditional Democrats) take it to the next level and continue to demand the "social justice" (wealth re-distribution) they seem to feel entitled to.