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Post-Modern American Liberalism

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posted on Apr, 23 2017 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

In other words, outside influences have shaped political ideologies of leftists. So how can you claim that Soviet intrusions have not been a part of the environmental factors that have shaped leftist ideology?




posted on Apr, 23 2017 @ 08:55 PM
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Liberalism is getting so bad these days... you can't even ban people based on religion without them protesting.

They're super intolerant toward racists and misogynists too.


(post by Teikiatsu removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 04:25 PM
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okay. so. Since this thread is about my life, I want to offer this:




Yes. I was feeling better that Ivanka and Jared were there.....like lots of others. We were sleeping well. .......

And now this.



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: GreyScale

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: GodEmperor

I hate that they even claim the term "liberal" when they support authoritarian dictates.


Myself as well.

They're progressives. although they only use the term between themselves.

Let's just tell it like it is... an actual liberal has nothing to do with the current batch of Marxists.


I have seen this idea start floating around. You know its a bunch of bull crap don't you? Even folks that don't know they are Marxist or Leninist are. Labels like Progressive are simply façade.



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: Astrocyte

In other words, outside influences have shaped political ideologies of leftists. So how can you claim that Soviet intrusions have not been a part of the environmental factors that have shaped leftist ideology?


Astrocyte is trolling, obfuscating or doesn't know what its talking about.



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

You are mistaken.



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

And you are again mistaken. Why are you not willing to allow us to explain our own positions? OP said blah. Subjects of OP say nah. Try to start conversation to explain what we "Post-Modern American Liberals" are about....but you say "nu uh!!"


What is that? What is the bizarre justification for telling us we are wrong about what we want and what we think?
The title begs for a salient definition. We are the people who can offer it.

Why will you not allow us to do that and accept what we tell you?

I am a ginger, blue-eyed, freckled female about size 6 and mother of two.

Can you accept that statement as truth?



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The OP is not talking about you, and other normal folks who aren't lobbing empty wine bottles and blocking off freeways as 'protest". You are not the ones posting this kind of nonsense:



on telephone poles in your communities. Its the outrageous nonsense that the media finds to delectable that keeps getting trotted out as a norm for your political beliefs. Since our language doesn't really allow much differentiation....we are left with you feeling like the OP is talking about you, when it really isn't.

I suspect you find the same type of stuff distasteful, and that there is less than a half a percent of difference in viewpoint, overall, between even the most diametrically opposed political voices on ATS



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I don't mind to see how you would define liberalism, truth is relative, maybe seeing what relative truths you hold might come to a better understanding of your position.

Would you consider yourself a moderate leftist? What reasons do you have of defending plastic liberalism and violent marxism?

Do you support free speech? Do you support speech if it does not agree with your views, even to the point that you would consider it hate speech? Do you support, or at the least willfully ignore, abuses against free speech if those abuses are directed at those you do not agree with?

This is the crux of the issue, the good intentions of the leftist movements decades past have brought us to this point. It doesn't matter what you believe, except for you, what matters is the consequences of putting those beliefs into action. The conservatives you despise so much, are conservative for a reason, they prefer the tried and true methods. It's a crap shoot when applying progressive policies, or adapting to progressive norms.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That picture is despicable, the only reason it will not receive widespread outrage is one word: it says white instead of black. The left would receive more praise and recognition from me if they valued consistency more than identity.

You're right, it's very unlikely I am referring to anyone on ATS in this thread. It's human nature to categorize information, making things simpler, I'm not going to come up with 300 million different labels for each and every person. Broad generalizations have their advantages and disadvantages.

I could use another label that would probably be more comprehensible to the 'other side'. Nationalism. Are all nationalists bad? When describing nationalism, is there a balanced approach? It has serious negative connotations, the same with Socialism; both of these labels have witnessed leaders, identified to those terms, who have killed hundreds of millions.



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: GodEmperor

We lavk words that appropriatelt self identify negatively. For obvious reasons. So any attempt to create a label will almost always be poorly received as itll carry so much bagage with it.

Words are a terrible way to transmit information. But its the best we got, lossy as it is.

For now.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: GodEmperor

Here's my "liberal progressive" agenda.

Everyone gets educated. Everyone has health care. Everyone treats everyone else the way they want to be treated. Everyone has a home, clothing, food, some sort of productive activity to engage in. No one gets beat up or killed for their views. No one shoves lies down people's throats. No one straps on suicide vests or walks into a church or theater and opens fire on the audience.

No one gets left behind.

That's it.
Not so monstrous, is it? Nope.
The Golden Rule. That's the only agenda I have. And to keep our planet healthy.

You see? Women get paid and educated and left in charge of their own bodies. People can walk the streets anywhere in safety. Insane people don't get to have guns. Children are not to be brainwashed.

I understand that conservatives want to keep the "status quo", but reality is that our society is marching forward with or without them. The 'old days' have passed. Not only was it never really like Leave it to Beaver or I Love Lucy, or even The Brady Bunch, but it can't stay that way. Conservatives want to regress back to some idyllic fantasy image they have in their heads. It won't work anymore.

I understand it is terrifying to some people, they just don't want change. They can't tolerate change. My husband and son are like that. I am not. My daughter and I are very much 'move along' types. It's a difference in mindset that is a temperamental predisposition. Some people freak out at the idea of change. Others get bored and want to try something different or newer to see if it works.

I don't understand why you conservatives can't listen without getting escalated into a froth of fear of the future. I don't understand why you don't want things to get better for everyone. Or why you vote against your own self-interest all the time!

Violent Marxists? No different than KKK. Or ISIS. Or Westboro Baptist Church. Or Neo-Nazis. ALL RUBBISH.



edit on 4/25/2017 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan



...we are left with you feeling like the OP is talking about you, when it really isn't.

He is. His OP doesn't bother to differentiate because he doesn't. All along, this would be the point I've been making. It's propaganda, and he and others like him make no disclaimers, offer no shades of grey, nothing beyond liberals are evil. It's targeting all liberals. The OP doesn't offer a real discussion about ideas or differences of opinion. There is no argument. It's relentless and on target - aimed at people who already want to agree

What is the point of the message, and what is the point of defending it if it isn't accurate or it's biased?

The Plot to Paper College Campuses with Racist Posters

Provocative poster art isn’t just for hippies and Occupy Wall Street folks anymore. The alt-right is finally getting into graphics in hopes of persuading the world to see things its way.





These are almost palatable - on purpose. They seem reasonable if we take them with that flyer you posted






Update: Political flyer distributed in Southfield looks like something straight out of Jim Crow era

This is a small sample of what communities around the country have been dealing with for years, and there's been an increase this past year. There's a war on for our hearts and minds. There's also a great deal of provocation involved with all of this. Towards what end?

This from one of the OP's posts:

That picture is despicable, the only reason it will not receive widespread outrage is one word: it says white instead of black. The left would receive more praise and recognition from me if they valued consistency more than identity.

So, you know...


edit on 4/25/2017 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: GodEmperor

Here's my "liberal progressive" agenda.

Everyone gets educated. Everyone has health care. Everyone treats everyone else the way they want to be treated. Everyone has a home, clothing, food, some sort of productive activity to engage in. No one gets beat up or killed for their views. No one shoves lies down people's throats. No one straps on suicide vests or walks into a church or theater and opens fire on the audience.

No one gets left behind.

That's it.
Not so monstrous, is it? Nope.
The Golden Rule. That's the only agenda I have. And to keep our planet healthy.

You see? Women get paid and educated and left in charge of their own bodies. People can walk the streets anywhere in safety. Insane people don't get to have guns. Children are not to be brainwashed.

I understand that conservatives want to keep the "status quo", but reality is that our society is marching forward with or without them. The 'old days' have passed. Not only was it never really like Leave it to Beaver or I Love Lucy, or even The Brady Bunch, but it can't stay that way. Conservatives want to regress back to some idyllic fantasy image they have in their heads. It won't work anymore.

I understand it is terrifying to some people, they just don't want change. They can't tolerate change. My husband and son are like that. I am not. My daughter and I are very much 'move along' types. It's a difference in mindset that is a temperamental predisposition. Some people freak out at the idea of change. Others get bored and want to try something different or newer to see if it works.

I don't understand why you conservatives can't listen without getting escalated into a froth of fear of the future. I don't understand why you don't want things to get better for everyone. Or why you vote against your own self-interest all the time!

Violent Marxists? No different than KKK. Or ISIS. Or Westboro Baptist Church. Or Neo-Nazis. ALL RUBBISH.




How is your vision of the future not some 'idyllic fantasy'?

I'm not sure if you noticed in a previous comment of mine on the future, but it is far from either view you are referring to.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Those posters are just as bad, I notice that some of the screen-shots come from news coverage. So while all of those posters are reprehensible, only one side gets the coverage while the other is ignored.

How about that?



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Conversation is a process of coding thoughts into language, transmitting the words of the language, and then decoding the words back into thoughts.

There is a lot of nuance lost along the way. Sarcasm, and people who miss it, is a good example. Perhaps you're right...i won't argue on behalf of the OP. But I will say that no grey area is left because no verbiage exists to make it. Well....it does, but you'd be reading 300 words, and still losing some in translation.

When someone whines about liberals, i usually think of the antifa types. When someone whines about conservatives, i usually think about nazis. But there's a mile of numbers besides zero, and its not truly a binary choice. I mean, black and white are pretty binary....but that grey area you are talking about....its still there.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: GodEmperor

You seem to be really angry, and I understand that feeling. I'm angry, too.

Your OP title implies that you know what Post-Modern American Liberalism is. Turns out you really don't, and although some of us have tried to share what it is, you still don't believe us?


Yes, my hopes for the future are an idyllic fantasy. But we can get way closer to it than we are now.

You mentioned not wanting change, but to stick with "what works." Here's the thing. It doesn't work. It hasn't worked.

Brownback tried the austerity and spending slashing, the tax cuts and pushing for private enterprise. It has NOT worked. He tried the very thing the Tea Party wanted. And he's a Dominionist to boot! So, you see, he was given a chance for many years. And the result was failure.

That's just all there is to it.
There must be an in between, which is a blend of private and public enterprise. It's called DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM. We already have it, too. Public schools, public parks and roads and infrastructure. A big white house...it's OUR house - the people's White House. Social security, food assistance, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. All public.

Our army is a public organization. It's already here. Pretending you can do away with it is useless, because you can't.
It's not going to happen. Government can be streamlined and red-tape can be reduced and bureaucratic malaise can be corrected with the right leadership. I don't see Trump's style going over real well so far.

You know he's going to cave on the wall thing, right? He told that AP reporter that it would be more of a fence, with more agents and better cameras. And that the "wall" is a figure of speech.

Those are the facts.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You can take some solace in knowing that, barring a massive loss of human life slowing down change, things will end up pretty much like you want. At least, the major points will be checked off. There will likely be some other stuff that will be more extreme. But Im thinking that most of what "liberals" want will be reality within this century.

So long as it doesn't require my enslavement to pay for it, im mostly indifferent to it. I have preferences, but those are irrelevant for the most part.

I do think it helps to think of "humanity" as a single thing, though. Maybe not practically....but at least philosophically.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thank you. And thanks for the dialogue. That is what we need now, more than ever.



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