The latest Feminist deflection

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No. I think you mean "equal societies". In a free society the people who don't like women are free to discriminate against them and not hire them, pay them less, not let them take time off, and other things that lead to the gender pay gap.

No I mean free society. It has a specific meaning, but that's beside the point altogether.

As I said, in places where women have the freedom to choose their education and career-path, their choices directly influence their income, leading to the gender wage gap..

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
No I mean free society. It has a specific meaning, but that's beside the point altogether.

It does and you don't seem to understand the implications of "free"

As I said, in places where women have the freedom to choose their education and career-path, their choices directly influence their income, leading to the gender wage gap..

As I said, it doesn't work that way in reality. In a perfect world, a gender pay gap would be a problem of women's own making, but this isn't a perfect world now is it? In reality misogynists are able to block women from careers using the "good ole boy" system. You can deny this all day, but you know it is true.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

In reality misogynists are able to block women from careers using the "good ole boy" system. You can deny this all day, but you know it is true.

Oh wow this person is over qualified and will help grow my company and maximize profits!

What? It's a woman? Pass.

Dude, you're ridiculous.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Krazysh0t

In reality misogynists are able to block women from careers using the "good ole boy" system. You can deny this all day, but you know it is true.

Oh wow this person is over qualified and will help grow my company and maximize profits!

What? It's a woman? Pass.

Dude, you're ridiculous.

Not really. That happens every day in America. That exact situation in fact. It's harder to get away with when hiring someone (though I'm sure it happens there still too), but it's really notorious when trying to get promoted to senior management levels.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Gonna need proof.

Also, are you saying that misogyny is 100% responsible for the earnings gap? Womens choices must factor in a little, right?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

As I said, it doesn't work that way in reality. In a perfect world, a gender pay gap would be a problem of women's own making, but this isn't a perfect world now is it? In reality misogynists are able to block women from careers using the "good ole boy" system. You can deny this all day, but you know it is true.

For one, you're looking at an average wage and pretending that because they aren't equal, it is misogyny—without evidence, of course—while such a statistic says absolutely nothing about a woman getting payed less for the same job as a man. No, women tend to work less, take less risky jobs, and choose career paths that aren't as lucrative. It's their own choice.

Feminism is obsolete in the west. Move your efforts to the backwords parts of the world if you want to make a difference.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Gonna need proof.

Sigh... Fine. You better not ignore it.
Study

We first find that women have significantly lower promotion rates than men across all ranks of the corporate hierarchy, even after controlling for a range of individual characteristics (age, education, tenure, experience) and including fixed effects for current rank, year, industry, and even work establishment.

Article about the study

Authors Astrid Kunze and Amalia R. Miller examined private sector employment data from Norway, known as a generally women-friendly country, between 1987 and 1997. They found that even when controlling for industry, occupation, age, education, experience, tenure, and whether workers are full or part time, women are 2.9 percentage points less likely to get a promotion than men. On top of that, they found that “[f]or men, fatherhood is associated with a greater chance of promotion,” but for women, “children have a negative effect on promotion rates and that effect is even more negative if they are younger.”

Chances of promotion aren’t much better even if women stick it out with one company. Women experience internal promotion rates that are 34 to 47 percent lower than for men. It also doesn’t matter whether they’re entry-level or at the top of their company: at every level, women are less likely to be promoted to the next rung by the following year.

Women in the workplace Study

Women are less likely to receive the first critical promotion to manager—so far fewer end up on the path to leadership—and are less likely to be hired into more senior positions. Women also get less access to the people, input, and opportunities that accelerate careers. As a result, the higher you look in companies, the fewer women you see.

Also, are you saying that misogyny is 100% responsible for the earnings gap? Womens choices must factor in a little, right?

Of course not! Don't be silly. There are many factors that contribute to it. I just want to address the biggest ones as well as the ones we as a society can work towards fixing. The part of the equation that is of women's own making is on them to fix.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

As I said, it doesn't work that way in reality. In a perfect world, a gender pay gap would be a problem of women's own making, but this isn't a perfect world now is it? In reality misogynists are able to block women from careers using the "good ole boy" system. You can deny this all day, but you know it is true.

For one, you're looking at an average wage and pretending that because they aren't equal, it is misogyny—without evidence, of course—while such a statistic says absolutely nothing about a woman getting payed less for the same job as a man. No, women tend to work less, take less risky jobs, and choose career paths that aren't as lucrative. It's their own choice.

Feminism is obsolete in the west. Move your efforts to the backwords parts of the world if you want to make a difference.

You can say this is true all day, but all the facts and research show you as wrong.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You can say this is true all day, but all the facts and research show you as wrong.

That's simply untrue—unless all your research is skewed by feminist ideology, which I can see it is.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Research shows men are four times more likely than women to ask for a salary raise, and economist Linda Babcock of Carnegie Mellon University says this has a snowball effect. Even a small pay boost will mean bigger annual raises and possibly bigger bonuses and it will carry over to a new employer, who is almost certain to ask: What was your last salary?

from NPR

Maybe if women asked for raises more often they would get them.

How about this one?

In 2012, when the data was collected, women owned 36.2% of businesses, but earned only 11.3% of the revenue. While there are undoubtedly occupational differences between men and women, the disparity continues when you zero in on female-dominated industries. For example, women owned 64.5% of health care and social assistance companies in 2012, but received just 19.9% of that industry’s $703.5 billion in revenues, according to Pew.

Fortune

Even when women are the owners of their own businesses they still on average make less money.

Are they misogynist? Highly doubtful.

Women are different than men. They take more vacations, spend more time with family, take extended maternity leave.

This is only a problem to feminists. I'm glad women have the choice to balance their lives how they see fit.

Men choose work over family time more often than women. This is reflected in their earnings and how often they get promoted.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Of course. Just blanket label the evidence I've posted as biased so you don't have to actually look at it and deny ignorance. Typical.

a reply to: rockintitz

You are cherry picking data PLUS you have completely ignored my evidence. You haven't even addressed a single piece I gave you. Your evidence doesn't magically make mine null-and-void. If anything, they are both true. Which means I'm still right and that women aren't equal with men. All you are doing here, by not refuting my evidence, is showing that part of the problem may be women's own doing. But that is only PART of the problem. Your problem doesn't replace the worse problem I'm pointing out.

PS: Address the evidence you demanded from me.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Of course. Just blanket label the evidence I've posted as biased so you don't have to actually look at it and deny ignorance. Typical.

I'm not aware of any evidence you posted. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Here. The post may not be addressed to you, but its on the same page. Pretending like it isn't here is kind of silly.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not really. That happens every day in America. That exact situation in fact.

Yes, you are correct. It does. But the reason is not that men want to keep women down, but rather that they don't want to face unfounded sexual harassment charges should their new employee ever disagree with them.

Because that happens every day in America too, because of feminist support.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Unfortunately, that fear is overblown to a ridiculous degree. You are right and that there are women who abuse the system like so, but at the same time many women are perfectly happy doing the right thing just like the rest of us. Its not like women are inherently devious and all looking to take advantage of every man they see.

At the same time, we all know that you shouldn't be dating someone you work with. So MAYBE it would be in everyone's best interests not to hit on people you work with and that way you'd never have that problem anyways.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: rockintitz

You are cherry picking data PLUS you have completely ignored my evidence. You haven't even addressed a single piece I gave you. Your evidence doesn't magically make mine null-and-void. If anything, they are both true. Which means I'm still right and that women aren't equal with men. All you are doing here, by not refuting my evidence, is showing that part of the problem may be women's own doing. But that is only PART of the problem. Your problem doesn't replace the worse problem I'm pointing out.

PS: Address the evidence you demanded from me.

I did. Your evidence says that women are less likely to get promoted.

I countered by showing you data that says women are less likely to ask for a promotion.

No correlation?

Are you going to address the fact that even when women are their own bosses they still tend to make less money?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Here. The post may not be addressed to you, but its on the same page. Pretending like it isn't here is kind of silly.

If you bought a copy of the paper, maybe you'd let me borrow it?

There is a question which has been asked and ignored 3 or 4 times in this thread . I am intrigued as to the answer .

What rights do men currently enjoy which women do not ?

originally posted by: rockintitz
I did. Your evidence says that women are less likely to get promoted.

I countered by showing you data that says women are less likely to ask for a promotion.

No correlation?

I don't know, you certainly haven't proven it. Correlation != causation or did you forget that?

Are you going to address the fact that even when women are their own bosses they still tend to make less money?

Do you not read my posts? I already agreed with you that part of the problem is women's own making. When are you going to concede a point and agree that it isn't JUST women's fault that there is a pay gap?