Is Being Gay Natural or is it Just Another Human Behavior Brain Disorder - (Controversial)

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Denoli
Well im more likely to believe in ADAM and EVE not ADAM and STEVE

So the human race is nothing more than inbred hillbillies?
Back on topic. Homosexuality is not a brain disorder and that has already been proven.

When? Classic denial syndrome reply!

originally posted by: JaneJonesLOLXD
a reply to: thekaboose

Yeah, right - I mean, I'm open to other theories. My main point is that there is a "defect" somewhere, whether a DNA defect due to chemical changes or a mental defect.

Maybe it's not a brain disorder, but it's certainly not the result of a perfectly functioning biological system.

With that mentality:

- Anyone with blue eyes is a genetic freak because I have brown eyes and I find them different.
- Anyone with blonde hair is a genetic freak blah blah blah

You see where Im going with this?

You have not given any evidence of a mental defect, and all you have given is a hypothesis that cant be used as its too small a sample group. Its a good start but its not concrete and doesnt give definitive proof.

And lastly, by pointing out just the title of the post you dropped shows you didnt really read or care, you bang on about it being a mental thing but you have nothing to show apart from DNA changes, kinda makes your arguments moot.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Who cares.

It's a free country.

Let them be how they want to be.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

The gay people I have talked to say things like, "I just knew I was gay." I think gay people just have sexual reactions to the same sex that are not within their control. You can label it anything you want. But as far as I can tell, gay people are the way they are because that is how God created them.

a reply to: JaneJonesLOLXD

originally posted by: JaneJonesLOLXD

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: JaneJonesLOLXD

this topic causes great division

I suggest posting some papers or research into how Homosexuality is a disorder

the debate will move along better

Well that's the problem though, who is going to touch THAT hot potato?! No respected scientific body will, it's just too dangerous. Imagine the public outcry. They would lose their funding almost immediately. Well respected scientists would be hauled over the coals. Career over.

That is the reality and why it will never be studied/researched.

Shame.

Any studies or research would or is being conducted in secrecy because of the denial factor. Those who are in fact ill in high places would want this concept to go away!

a reply to: thekaboose

Well, of course, you seem like an intelligent person so you will also appreciate there are positive, negative and neutral DNA changes.

Eye Color, Hair Color, Skin Color could be deemed "neutral".
Height could be seen as either positive or negative depending.

Having superhuman stength, such as a hypothetical "superman" type DNA defect, positive.

Homosexuality, negative? Who knows.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

What is "truth" is very subjective. I do not think it is up to straight people to define what is normal for gay people.

Isn't funny how the people who are most outspoken against homosexuality turn out to be one in the end!

originally posted by: ypperst
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Dunno if anyone pointed this out, but
if it is a mental disorder, howcome 10% of all mammals are attracted to the same gender?

Therefore I cant see it being a mental disorder.

So animals don't have brain defects either?

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: JaneJonesLOLXD

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: JaneJonesLOLXD

this topic causes great division

I suggest posting some papers or research into how Homosexuality is a disorder

the debate will move along better

Well that's the problem though, who is going to touch THAT hot potato?! No respected scientific body will, it's just too dangerous. Imagine the public outcry. They would lose their funding almost immediately. Well respected scientists would be hauled over the coals. Career over.

That is the reality and why it will never be studied/researched.

Shame.

Any studies or research would or is being conducted in secrecy because of the denial factor. Those who are in fact ill in high places would want this concept to go away!

Why do I feel you are sitting at your computer mumbling something about the gay agenda and how its destroying family values.

Seriously though, it should be done publicly. If it comes back saying "nope, all good" then the left cry and hug and everyone's happy (until they offend each other) or "Yup, its a mental thing" then give people the choice to adapt. Just because people dont like what sciences says (bacon = cancer etc) doesn't mean they cant live their lives.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

The gay people I have talked to say things like, "I just knew I was gay." I think gay people just have sexual reactions to the same sex that are not within their control. You can label it anything you want. But as far as I can tell, gay people are the way they are because that is how God created them.

Yes, a lot of gay people grow up feeling that they are not quite the same as everyone else. I certainly did.

When you are a pre-pubescent kid, you don't have much of an idea why as you are a non sexual being anyway. When puberty hits the penny starts to drop.

That is where everyone forks off in different directions in terms of experience and mental wellbeing. With being gay it is totally 100% down to environment (as in family situation) how a person will deal with coming to terms with it. This can range from no consequence and no issues at all right the way through to suicide.

originally posted by: JaneJonesLOLXD
a reply to: thekaboose

Well, of course, you seem like an intelligent person so you will also appreciate there are positive, negative and neutral DNA changes.

Eye Color, Hair Color, Skin Color could be deemed "neutral".
Height could be seen as either positive or negative depending.

Having superhuman stength, such as a hypothetical "superman" type DNA defect, positive.

Homosexuality, negative? Who knows.

Never confuse me with an intelligent person, Im just someone who hasn't slept right in 3 years who is ambivalent with whats happening in the world.

The point is, that slamming people saying its a mental issue and then derailing your own argument with DNA studies which have a small sample group doesn't help. I like to believe I am reasonable (like to...but not always) and if I have proof in front of me then I can admit Im wrong but the thing is nothing conclusive has been offered from either side.

Nature side we have the animal kingdom

Science side we have one DNA study vs one vote (changing with the times and scientific understanding, like how the lobotomy was phased out as science progressed).

If you can show proof its a mental illness like you have stated over and over I will walk away from this conversation after apologising, until then try not to deflect.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

The gay people I have talked to say things like, "I just knew I was gay." I think gay people just have sexual reactions to the same sex that are not within their control. You can label it anything you want. But as far as I can tell, gay people are the way they are because that is how God created them.

With being gay as it is totally 100% down to environment (as in family situation) how a person will deal with coming to terms with it. This can range from no consequence and no issues at all right the way through to suicide.

That's quite interesting.

I wonder are they any studies to do with the correlation between suicide and homosexuality? I'm just think along the lines of a natural error correction type function going on there? It's a possibility.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

The gay people I have talked to say things like, "I just knew I was gay." I think gay people just have sexual reactions to the same sex that are not within their control. You can label it anything you want. But as far as I can tell, gay people are the way they are because that is how God created them.

Yes, a lot of gay people grow up feeling that they are not quite the same as everyone else. I certainly did.

When you are a pre-pubescent kid, you don't have much of an idea why as you are a non sexual being anyway. When puberty hits the penny starts to drop.

That is where everyone forks off in different directions in terms of experience and mental wellbeing. With being gay as it is totally 100% down to environment (as in family situation) how a person will deal with coming to terms with it. This can range from no consequence and no issues at all right the way through to suicide.

Your story is pretty close to what I have heard.

I have a couple of stories with my interactions with gay people. When I moved to New Hope PA with my first wife we have a funny experience. New Hope has a lot gay people living there. So we had another couple helping us. We finished the move and we were at the New Hope diner getting dinner. The waiter comes over and is really swooshy . He puts his hands on my shoulders real affectionately and talking swooshy . I did react in any way. I just talked to the guy as if what he was doing was completely normal. The other guy at the table who was helping us move had really funny reaction. He was really uptight about the swooshy guy. So the whole time this gay waiter was giving this guy the business. He just ignore me. It was really funny.

I then moved to Lambertville. And there were serveral gay couples living all around us. On our block we became friends with this one couple. We hung out at there house a couple of times. I have to admit I was a little uncomfortable at first but eventually I began to interact with them no differently than any other couple we knew. I also used to walk my dog along the canal. I became pretty good friends with a lesbian couple who used to go catfishing in the canal at night.

I think the reaction to gay people is way over done. They represent like 2% of the population. I doubt anyone would subject themselves to such brutal treatment if there wasn't something to the idea that being gay is not a choice. I imagine some people choose to be gay. But I really believe there are some people who have no choice.

originally posted by: thekaboose

originally posted by: JaneJonesLOLXD
a reply to: thekaboose

Well, of course, you seem like an intelligent person so you will also appreciate there are positive, negative and neutral DNA changes.

Eye Color, Hair Color, Skin Color could be deemed "neutral".
Height could be seen as either positive or negative depending.

Having superhuman stength, such as a hypothetical "superman" type DNA defect, positive.

Homosexuality, negative? Who knows.

Never confuse me with an intelligent person, Im just someone who hasn't slept right in 3 years who is ambivalent with whats happening in the world.

The point is, that slamming people saying its a mental issue and then derailing your own argument with DNA studies which have a small sample group doesn't help. I like to believe I am reasonable (like to...but not always) and if I have proof in front of me then I can admit Im wrong but the thing is nothing conclusive has been offered from either side.

Nature side we have the animal kingdom

Science side we have one DNA study vs one vote (changing with the times and scientific understanding, like how the lobotomy was phased out as science progressed).

If you can show proof its a mental illness like you have stated over and over I will walk away from this conversation after apologising, until then try not to deflect.

Hey I didn't intend to be the "lead researcher" in this debate. But in fairness, some other posters posted external links to other studies - (I am too lazy to go back and find them to quote).

You are right in that there is not sufficient evidence (for EITHER side). Thus, this is why this debate rages on, and will likely rage on, in thread after thread on web forum after web forum...

I am also open minded to apologising, moving on and even educating others if someone can provide scientific evidence (not a vote) that there is not some sort of psychological disorder or other biological defect as a cause for homosexuality.

All the best.

originally posted by: JaneJonesLOLXD

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

The gay people I have talked to say things like, "I just knew I was gay." I think gay people just have sexual reactions to the same sex that are not within their control. You can label it anything you want. But as far as I can tell, gay people are the way they are because that is how God created them.

With being gay as it is totally 100% down to environment (as in family situation) how a person will deal with coming to terms with it. This can range from no consequence and no issues at all right the way through to suicide.

That's quite interesting.

I wonder are they any studies to do with the correlation between suicide and homosexuality? I'm just think along the lines of a natural error correction type function going on there? It's a possibility.

A large number of LGBT suicides are due to bullying or the inability to cope with what they are (coming to terms that they are not "normal" in their family or friends eyes) with a lack of understanding from others. If people were more excepting (not saying you have to 100% agree with LGBT) instead of saying its an illness that science / god can cure they stand a chance.

But like I have said, the T suicide rate is higher normally due to childhood trauma which can be related to a mental illness BUT NOT ALL trans.

a reply to: JaneJonesLOLXD

As you may know correlation does not prove causation. That said, how would you ever study what you are proposing. Just getting through high school causes a lot of suicides. To say being gay makes you suicidal is dumb. How would you do the study percentage of gay people who commit suicide or percentage of straight people. If the purpose of your study is to justify the condemnation of gay people you don't need to waste money on a study designed to falsely confirm your prejudice.

Just leave gay people alone.

originally posted by: JaneJonesLOLXD

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

The gay people I have talked to say things like, "I just knew I was gay." I think gay people just have sexual reactions to the same sex that are not within their control. You can label it anything you want. But as far as I can tell, gay people are the way they are because that is how God created them.

With being gay as it is totally 100% down to environment (as in family situation) how a person will deal with coming to terms with it. This can range from no consequence and no issues at all right the way through to suicide.

That's quite interesting.

I wonder are they any studies to do with the correlation between suicide and homosexuality? I'm just think along the lines of a natural error correction type function going on there? It's a possibility.

Yes there is, and the data is not good.

Clinical social worker Caitlin Ryan's Family Acceptance Project (San Francisco State University) conducted the first study of the effect of family acceptance and rejection on the health, mental health and well-being of LGBT youth, including suicide, HIV/AIDS and homelessness.[19] Their research shows that LGBT youths "who experience high levels of rejection from their families during adolescence (when compared with those young people who experienced little or no rejection from parents and caregivers) were more than eight times likely to have attempted suicide, more than six times likely to report high levels of depression, more than three times likely to use illegal drugs and more than three times likely to be at high risk for HIV or other STDs" by the time they reach their early 20s.[19][dead link]

en.wikipedia.org...

This is why folks like myself are vociferous about treating gays with respect.

I grew up in a Catholic family and was told that my sexuality was Satan trying to take me away from Jesus and that I must fight my sexuality with every bit of will I have. I was told that every time I was attracted to a male it was Satan and that it was a perversion of the natural order. I was told that gay people have no hope, they are only interested in sex, do not have meaningful relationships and are the lowest of scum on the earth in terms of morality.

That caused a disorder alright. Clinical depression, a mental breakdown and multiple suicide attempts. (I am only here today because some very determined nurses resuscitated me)

Once I got past the toxicity of the religious discord factor, I realised that being gay just a part of the natural order of things. ie nothing to be scared or ashamed of. I even learned that I can still keep all the Christian morals I was taught and have a long term monogamous relationship.

If I am right (and logic suggests I am) what are the implications of that for the future?
What a whopper if it is determined in the future proven to be a disorder when we better understand how the brains wiring works or does not in some cases resulting in disorders.
And I believe it will be along with many other puzzling conditions. And being gay is a condition with a non-natural root cause!

I think I have offended enough people for today.

This is not my intention on the internet today.

I am leaving this conversation, with apologies to those whom I have offended.

All the best.