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First evidence for higher state of consciousness found

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posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: vinifalou

No one has ever said that taking mind altering drugs derived from plants, does nothing to the brain.

Doctors have known that this is the case for DECADES, longer even than that. But what has not been shown, even now, is that those effects are an improvement over what is considered the normal state of mind, only that these things create a DIFFERENCE in brain activity.




posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:02 AM
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a reply to: vinifalou



was about time! We need more research on consciousness and altered states.

Why do humans beings experience a different view of the "reality" when they're under the effect of these "drugs"?


What about MKUltra? They know exactly what happens to people in altered states. And how to get them there.

MKUltra involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people’s individual mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially L S D) and other chemicals,hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture
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edit on 19-4-2017 by Observationalist because: Added bold

edit on 19-4-2017 by Observationalist because: Fixing quote



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:02 AM
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originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Bedlam

You don't think sand paintings cure anything?


No.



As far as drugs for curing diseases. Natives have in fact, particularly in rainforests, found many cures for disease.


And many things that are not.



OK so you don't understand psychotherapy I get it.

Sand painting is a ritual, rituals have a place in the psyche to create a positive response in the mind. Art is also a therapy used widely in psychology. The practice of creating a beautiful piece of art and then destroying it is a cathartic expirience.

Can you name any "cures" in mental illness? A cure would be when you no longer have the disease.

By the way the NEJM which is the premier journal of internal medicine in the US, says that 50 percent of drug trials are false when reading tested. This also included misdiagnosis and conflict of interest.

So maybe exit yur high horse.

Both sand paintings and psychodelics are being used right now to treat patients by dr's all over ten world. So maybe subscribe to psychology today or something.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

The point with the jist here though is, uness you actually know, then you simply dont know.


Except that telescopes work, and here's a long list of all the exceptional things dead wise men have revealed to '___' users:


Is that an argument?

Is '___' even the 'wisest' one?

Do you even know about this kind of stuff?

It's pretty obvious the answer to all of the above in NO. Friendly advise: no matter how high an IQ you were born with, no matter how much fancy science stuff (of any field) you're an expert of, no matter how much education you have, unless you actually know, then you simply dont know. You cant even imagine it.
edit on 19-4-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: luthier

I love it when people both embrace and revile science as proof for their arguments. You do it so well.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: vinifalou

No one has ever said that taking mind altering drugs derived from plants, does nothing to the brain.

Doctors have known that this is the case for DECADES, longer even than that. But what has not been shown, even now, is that those effects are an improvement over what is considered the normal state of mind, only that these things create a DIFFERENCE in brain activity.


Define "improvement".

LOL



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: vinifalou

No one has ever said that taking mind altering drugs derived from plants, does nothing to the brain.

Doctors have known that this is the case for DECADES, longer even than that. But what has not been shown, even now, is that those effects are an improvement over what is considered the normal state of mind, only that these things create a DIFFERENCE in brain activity.


You should read the MAPS trials. They are certain ly finding it helps people.

For instance patients who are terminal have found a cure for their anxiety. Meaning they did a couple trips guided by a Dr and the anxiety went away without needing to continue the drug use.
edit on 19-4-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
... unless you actually know, then you simply dont know.


So, you can't come up with anything subjective that was facilitated by taking mind altering drugs, right?



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

It's called being agnostic in your claims. Which is science.

Which you don't do so well.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Bedlam

It's called being agnostic in your claims. Which is science.

Which you don't do so well.


By your own statement, more than half of psychiatric pubs are faked. So much for any of your appeal to those, then. Right?



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:07 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

I'm saying as much as might possibly even be allowed around here.

But seriously, if you have no experience on this subject, let alone broad experience, then you're flat out playing the fool arguing against stuff you cant even possibly imagine.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Bedlam

I'm saying as much as might possibly even be allowed around here.


I'll take that as a no. Thanks.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:10 AM
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Seriously, guys, "I take drugs because I like the feeling" doesn't equate to enlightenment.

If it made you more intelligent or gave you great insight, the examples would be spewing out of you, instead of lame asides and excuses.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

That is correct. So the best thing to do is look at the information, decide for yourself, and continue to learn as the theories advance or fall apart.

My point is that "scientists" are trying these therapies. Since they don't have massive lobby groups and billions in research invested I consider them slightly more scientific personally.

I however realize they still get funded by someone who also has an agenda.

So it's a collection of information over time. Not a hard opinion about a concept I have no expirience in.
edit on 19-4-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: Cauliflower

Some people dont need drugs but human history is nothing but a tale of drugs

our whole existence is nothing but a relationship with drugs!

it's been a part of human evolution for such a long time



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Ho about I am dying of cancer and can't eat because I am afraid to die, a Dr had me go through two guided expiriences and I no longer felt anxious and needed to take the drug to maintain the calm feeling.

Those are literally the responses in clinical trials.

So again your type of opinion surpresses science from ever bothering to see if there is something to this phenomenon.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: luthier

That is not the same as knowing whether the effect makes the brains operation better or not. Feeling better, does not even provide the correct level of information, required in order to know what effect is actually occurring, how it is occurring, and whether or not that effect is actually better, or simply provides a rewire that could just as easily make things a damned sight worse. There simply has never been a study which takes the detail level deep enough, to classify actual brain behaviour as being better, worse, or otherwise.

In essence, it does not matter how a person feels, what matters is WHY they feel better. If they only feel better because a particular drug has accessed the pleasure centres of the brain, rather than because they ARE better, then no actual improvement has occurred.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:25 AM
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originally posted by: luthier

So again your type of opinion surpresses science from ever bothering to see if there is something to this phenomenon.


You're talking about 'feeling better' which is absolutely subjective. More "I take drugs because I like the feeling".

If that makes you less afraid, I'm glad. It does not, however, equate to 'enlightenment', or your mind functioning at a higher level or whatnot. Hallucinogens are, in fact, drugs. Just like the ones 'that maintain the calm feeling', only working in a different way. But they're not grossly different in nature.

My opinion, again, is that these sort of drugs don't provide a 'higher state of consciousness'. A distorted one, perhaps. Or one in which your normal internal checks and balances are turned off and you perceive your internal mental processes in a different way. But I don't believe you become wiser or more intelligent.

If you did, then certainly there would be objective discoveries one could only understand whilst on hallucinogens. THAT would be interesting. The fact that there is not sort of gives the 'drugs are enlightening' the lie.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Nobody cares what you believe they care if the treatment works.

Western drugs are given for feelings correct. The difference is they don't cure anything. You have to keep taking them.

If you can treat a patient who takes a drug once or twice and feels better or is cured that isn't useful?

Wow, rigid beliefs huh?



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

If the patient takes a drug once or twice and is cured of a mental illness, it would be the greatest breakthrough in psychology.

So I would temper the whole it doesn't matter.

They certainly didn't worry about what ADD medication was doing to continually take it.

The unfortunate truth about psychology is it requires human subjects even for neuroscience work.

If your point is we need more info then I agree. I am not making the claim this is settled science.

Just it isn't nothing.
edit on 19-4-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



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