New Heaven and New Earth

Revelation 21:22:

I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Revelation describes the New Jerusalem, a whole city that descends onto a new earth with a new Heaven. GOD HIMSELF will come and live on earth when the New Jerusalem descends:

In Revelation 21:16 the City is perfectly square. Its perimeter is 12,000 furlongs, or 1,500 miles (a furlong is 1/8 mile). It is 375 miles long on each side.

The old earth and Heaven dies, *passed away":

www.gotquestions.org...

The Bible consistently warns us that this world will not last forever. “Heaven and earth will pass away,” Jesus said in Matthew 24:35. His statement was in the context of end times’ prophecies and the eternal nature of Jesus’ words: “My words will never pass away.” This means that trusting Jesus is wiser than trusting anything in this world. Jesus also refers to the passing away of heaven and earth in Matthew 5:18. In Revelation 21:1, John writes of a new heaven and a new earth in the eternal state, having seen that “the first heaven and the first earth had passed away” (cf. Isaiah 65:17 and 2 Peter 3:13). To “pass away” is to disappear or be no more. This refers to the physical heaven and earth—the material world and all it contains—but not to the spirits/souls of the inhabitants of those places. Scripture is clear that people will outlast the current material universe, some in a state of eternal bliss and some in a state of eternal misery, and that the current universe will be replaced by another that will never know the contamination of sin. The method of this world’s destruction is revealed in 2 Peter 3:11–12: “The day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire. . . . That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.” In Noah’s day, the world was destroyed with water, but God promised to send no more global floods (Genesis 9:11). In the Day of the Lord, the universe will be destroyed by fire. The prophet Isaiah foretold the passing away of heaven and earth, too. “All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree” (Isaiah 34:4). The Lord assures His people that, even as the heaven and earth are passing away, His salvation is secure: “The heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment and its inhabitants die like flies. But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail” (Isaiah 51:6).

How strange that God baptized the world with water and then HE will baptize it with fire. This all tallies better than the most accomplished accountant's balance sheet.

How amazing that they all agree in terms of vision. These visionaries lived a thousand years apart. Their adherence to the literal "SCRIPT" ("Scripture", see that it is a Script quite literally) is flawless and never seems to contradict itself.

The SCRIPT indicates that we humans will build another Temple in Jerusalem, but it will come to the end that Revelation describes, about the same fate as the other two, because it is not God's Will; HE authorized Christ in Body to be the New Temple to last for all eternity. Jesus is quite literally The New Temple. Christ didn't care for bricks and mortar: He only said the Temple would be destroyed and that HE would rebuild it in 3 days (the sign of Jonah, 3 days in Sheol). His bricks and mortar are not of this world; they are spiritual.

I have a good understanding of it, but it all does seem pretty "out there". I hope it is true and that we do have spiritual souls that will be healed of death, and we will be, as Christ said;

Matthew 22:30; "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

If only, if only it could be true. Here is a hymn I used to sing at Sunday School as a child; I never forget it:

Can it be true, the things they say of You ?
You walked this earth, sharing with friends You knew
All that they had, the work, the joy, the pain
That we might find the way to heaven again

And day by day, You still return this way
But we recall, there was a debt to pay
Out of Your love for your won world above
You left that Holy thing, Your endless love to prove

Can it be true, the things they did to You ?
The death, the shame, and were Your friends so few
Yet You returned again alive and free
Can it be true, my Lord, it had to be.

Amen to that!

I don't believe we go to Heaven. Christ only said we would be with Him in Paradise. The SCRIPT indicates that the Paradise is a New Earth with He and GOD dwelling with us and ruling over us with a rod of iron (lol, these Dudes mean business). There is nowhere in either the OT or the NT that says we go to Heaven when we die. They say we go to sleep until Resurrection on the Great Day of God Almighty. Egyptians believed in an after life world where the Pharaohs could live happily ever after with all their wealth. The Native Americans believe we go to the Happy Hunting Grounds. Pharisees (the Jews that believed in Resurrection (the Sadducees didn't, how sad you see) and Christians believe we will live on a new earth after the old one is destroyed (Science tells us the earth is finite and will be consumed by fire, too).



"Jerusalem (Plate)" by William Blake.

Bob Dylan "Changing of the Guards"

"Gentlemen, he said
I don’t need your organization, I’ve shined your shoes
I’ve moved your mountains and marked your cards
But Eden is burning, either brace yourself for elimination
Or else your hearts must have the courage for the changing of the guards

Peace will come
With tranquillity and splendor on the wheels of fire
But will bring us no reward when her false idols fall
And cruel death surrenders with its pale ghost retreating
Between the King and the Queen of Swords".

a reply to: Revolution9

The picture at the top of my thread is the Messiah Gate of the Old City where Shekhinah passes through and where Christ rode in on a donkey, the colt of an ass as prophesied. I have touched the right post of the blocked up gate. This gate has been sealed up for many hundreds of years. It is supernatural. It is as if nobody can change what God has authorized as fate. The gate is surrounded by an Arab grave yard. I was careful not to walk on any graves and had to jump over spiked railings (I got told off by the guards, but people gave me claps; I'm crazy, that's my excuse and it was David's also, hah!).

Golden Gate

The Golden Gate, as it is called in Christian literature, is the only eastern gate of the Temple Mount and one of only two that used to offer access into the city from that side. It has been walled up since medieval times. The date of its construction is disputed and no archaeological work is allowed at the gatehouse, but opinions are shared between a late Byzantine and an early Umayyad date.

According to Jewish tradition, the Shekhinah (שכינה) (Divine Presence) used to appear through the eastern Gate, and will appear again when the Anointed One (Messiah) comes (Ezekiel 44:1–3) and a new gate replaces the present one

originally posted by: Revolution9
The SCRIPT indicates that we humans will build another Temple in Jerusalem,

I'm not sure that scripture does predict a physical temple, even as a human mistake.
We agree that the one at the end of Ezekiel is spiritual; we know Paul's reference to "YOU are God's temple" (that's "you" in the plural- 1 Corinthians ch3 v16).
I reckon that Revelation ch11 vv1-2 is the spiritual temple, echoing Ezekiel, and I believe that even 2 Thessalonians ch4 v2 is the spiritual temple (at least the visible externals) rather than any physical temple.
Those references being laid aside, what is left to indicate a physical temple?

a reply to: Revolution9

S&F
But why don't you think we go to heaven?

1 Thessalonians 4:14 says "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

At the rapture he's bring those who have died (those who are asleep in Christ as the believer never dies) with him back to the Earth to be reunited with their bodies.

Also paradise cannot refer solely to the new heavens and the new earth because Christ told the thief "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Physical Temple because:

2 Thessalonians 2:4:"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whose readeth, let him understand.)"

All Jews know where the Holy Place is.

If there is no Temple to be polluted then there can't be a beast to pollute it. I guess it could be someone literally being a counterfeit Christ and standing on the earth in His place. I guess the third Temple could be seen as the pollution itself? That is literally denying Christ as the Temple and seeking to re establish what God has abolished?

Yes, point taken, still many interpretations, thanks.

Some would even argue that the Temple has already been polluted and the last 3,5 years of the 7 years has been fulfilled by an Islamic Mosque standing in the Holy Place: It does stand there and there is writing on it from Muhammad that denies Christ as God's Son:

ntbc.wordpress.com...

NW son of Mary. Peace be on him the day he was born, and the day he dies, and the day he shall be raised alive! Such was Jesus, son of Mary, (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befitteth not (the Majesty of) God that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him!

The writing on the Dome in The Holy Place is a list of utter blasphemies from a Christian point of view; check the link above. I counted the days, using a day for a year, and if we go on the premise that the Dome is the defilement then it tallies 3.5 years of each, as Daniel describes; bringing us to 2026 I think. Those days eerily do add up to our time; 3.5 years from the building of the 2nd temple to the Dome (defilement) and 3,5 years from the Dome's construction to 2026. It is an easy sum. Check out the last chapter of Daniel's "Little Book"; anyone's guess though as it stands. The metaphorical veil has not been lifted yet. Note that at the end of Daniel the Prophet is told to seal up the book (prophesy). At the end of Revelation the prophet is told NOT to seal up the book.

a reply to: Josephus

But why don't you think we go to heaven?

Everywhere in the OT and NT says we go to sleep. Peter says so, Daniels says so. They say we will be resurrected for judgement and will live on the new earth and God will live with us.

There is NOWHERE in the OT and NT that says we will be with Jesus in Heaven. Yes, prophets were taken up there, but not to reside, just a fleeting visit. It is a very misunderstood thing. I don't know where people got those ideas from, but they are neither Jewish or Christian to say we will go to Heaven after we die.

You are saying the same thing yourself in your quotes. All your quotes relate to SLEEP, too. We shall sleep until raised to live on a new earth. God Himself with come down from Heaven to live with us.

"I've gone to prepare a place".

On the fringes of my spiritual imagination I believe Jesus really is preparing a place. God has authorized Him to design the new earth. A good metaphor to use is that God created an image (a program). It had lots of deliberate bugs in in it. Christ came to debug it and has gone to write the new program. The old program will be updated; Earth 2.0. Sorry, just a humorous way of looking at it. Sin is a mystery to us remember. We don't know why God allowed it to exist. We don't know much of His plan at all other than the shreds and morsels He has fed to us through the Prophets.

I need to take a break now, too much writing.

a reply to: Revolution9
I just offer this suggestion; if the church is the temple of God, then anyone who could seize control of the formal structures of the church would, in a sense, be occupying the temple. If they were able to divert the worship of the official church away from God and in a different direction, that would be an abomination.
I can imagine a false Christ forbidding the continuation of the Lord's Supper, on the grounds that the Supper was intended as a remembrance of the death of Christ until he comes- "... and now I'm here".

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Revolution9
I just offer this suggestion; if the church is the temple of God, then anyone who could seize control of the formal structures of the church would, in a sense, be occupying the temple. If they were able to divert the worship of the official church away from God and in a different direction, that would be an abomination.
I can imagine a false Christ forbidding the continuation of the Lord's Supper, on the grounds that the Supper was intended as a remembrance of the death of Christ until he comes- "... and now I'm here".

Your guess is as good as mine. At least we are both watching. We have a little oil in our lamps. That is all we are being asked. When the right time comes we shall know, you probably much better than I. I feel pretty useless spiritually compared to many good people.

a reply to: Revolution9

It's funny how in Western religion God is always "out there". Maybe the idea of a heavenly Jerusalem on earth is when someone finds God within themselves. At that point, when the awareness of the God within exists, then maybe that is when God is present on the earth.

There's a funny saying in eastern religion: If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him. I have always interpreted this to mean absolute authority comes from within. The idea that we are responsible for our own inner authority seems to be completely lacking in western religion. Western religion seems to solely intent on worshiping authority which is always out there.

I think western religion is structured to condition people to worship authority because King James believed in the divine right of the king. I think western religion is designed support a particular type of religion. I think the Bible has been purposely mistranslated to support the divine right of the king.

en.wikipedia.org...

Here King James makes his political intentions clear:

www.thenagain.info...

You cannot read or quote the OT or NT without considered the motives of King James in the translations. I believe the original text has been severely altered to serve a particular political ideology.

I think the only way we will see God on earth is when people stop worshiping God out there and cultivate a place for God within themselves. People need to trust their inner authority for guidance as opposed to being told what to think.

a reply to: Revolution9

JW teachings.

Daniel, Peter are referring to ISRAEL not to Gentiles.

Typical JW mistake is to substitute Themselves for Israel.

Context is everything without it any types of teaching can be made.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well I'm covered both ways, lol. I am half Jewish.

Yes, of course they are talking about Israel. I don't get what you are criticizing; you need to be more specific and then I can answer properly. It's not good enough to just say it is a mistake without saying WHAT the mistake is.

What are you referring to?

The NT refers to both Hebrews and the grafted on Christians. They are counted in as Abe's kiddies. That's the whole point of it, gentiles circumcised spiritually. Christianity is not a Jewish thing only. Christ came to bring Abe's God to everyone and make lots of children for Abraham.

a reply to: dfnj2015

That's fine, but it is gnostic. I am Orthodox. King James is different in minor ways. I have read the Bible twice over, the whole thing. I have visited Israel and done the field work. I don't know Buddhism. It has no authority with me personally. You think what you want to think, that's cool, but Buddhism ain't Judaism and it ain't Christianity, nowhere near.

Find for me some "lies" King James translation told? It is authority enough for me. I have read Scripture in many different translations. They say pretty much the same thing, so much I can't offer any examples where they completely are at odds; CAN YOU? Please enlighten me.

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: dfnj2015

That's fine, but it is gnostic. I am Orthodox. King James is different in minor ways. I have read the Bible twice over, the whole thing. I have visited Israel and done the field work. I don't know Buddhism. It has no authority with me personally. You think what you want to think, that's cool, but Buddhism ain't Judaism and it ain't Christianity, nowhere near.

Find for me some "lies" King James translation told? It is authority enough for me. I have read Scripture in many different translations. They say pretty much the same thing, so much I can't offer any examples where they completely are at odds; CAN YOU? Please enlighten me.

I don't want to corrupt you with my blasphemies. I'm not sure I can enlighten you. Please forgive me if I offended you any way.

I agree with you they pretty much all say the same thing. The thing is what they are translating from I do not believe is the original text.

"James gave the translators instructions intended to ensure that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ordained clergy.[7] The translation was done by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.[8] In common with most other translations of the period, the New Testament was translated from Greek, the Old Testament from Hebrew and Aramaic, and the Apocrypha from Greek and Latin."

It seems to me the Bible is not the word of God but the word of man. There is so much historical context that is included with the words.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Revolution9
The SCRIPT indicates that we humans will build another Temple in Jerusalem,

I'm not sure that scripture does predict a physical temple, even as a human mistake.
We agree that the one at the end of Ezekiel is spiritual

ezekiel describes a physical temple.

we know this because he gives measurements of the temple, the altar and even details of animal sacrifices that would take place in the future.

why do that if it was simply spiritual?

a reply to: firefromabove
Another user has put up a thread on the same topic, so i'll just invite you to read that one;
Ezekiel's vision of the spiritual temple

a reply to: Josephus

Heaven is not promised to man. As a matter of fact, Heaven is explicitly described as a place for God and his angels alone. Now, is there a paradisical earth in wait for those who cross over? Quite possibly. However, it's pretty blatantly stated than man cannot reside within the gates of heaven.

a reply to: Revolution9

I don't believe we go to Heaven. Christ only said we would be with Him in Paradise. The SCRIPT indicates that the Paradise is a New Earth with He and GOD dwelling with us and ruling over us with a rod of iron (lol, these Dudes mean business). There is nowhere in either the OT or the NT that says we go to Heaven when we die. They say we go to sleep until Resurrection on the Great Day of God Almighty.

Luke 23:43 states that the penitent thief that was crucified beside Jesus was told by Jesus that he (the thief) would be with Jesus in paradise that same day that they would both die.

Then in 2nd Corinthians 12:2-4 it states that paradise is in the third heaven.

Revelation 2:7, 22:7, 22:14 tells us that the tree and water of life is in this paradise and that this paradise in in the New celestial Jerusalem which has a new heaven and new earth.

Heb_9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Are you saying that you are judged while you are asleep?

I don't think you are asleep when all of this is going on. Why would God go to all that work building New Jerusalem and then throw you under an apple tree beside a nice cool stream of sweet water while you are asleep a few thousand years?

Luke 16:19-31 says that the dead are not asleep.

You do understand that there is a lot of rabbinic doctrine in the NT and that soul sleeping is rabbinic doctrine? Soul sleeping is not the doctrine of Jesus.

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: dfnj2015

Find for me some "lies" King James translation told? It is authority enough for me. I have read Scripture in many different translations. They say pretty much the same thing, so much I can't offer any examples where they completely are at odds; CAN YOU? Please enlighten me.

King James was loyal to the Whore (Rome), and it shows. And several verses missing. About 14 books worth? That should be enough for most people. Christianity is like music. Theres the real stuff, and the stuff you hear in the media,with little overlap between the 2. It takes a lot to form a image from the bible. KJV is no care package in this regard.

Assuming you're a statesman, why don't you use the 1560 Geneva bible of the pilgrims? Already know the answer:

50 years experience = stubborn ways with outdated information you learnt as a child. Humanity as a whole is getting stagnant , but a man shouldn't follow that path in his own life.

___________________

New Heaven, New Earth, is just a return to the way things were before the fall. Not so dramatic if your memory of a single mind wasn't shattered.

A future new heavens and new earth can only make sense when certain scriptures in Genesis are expounded upon. Take for instance the ending of Genesis chapter 1.

Genesis 1:31 - "And God saw every thing that he had made and behold it was very good."

Now fast forward about 1600 years to the time period of Noah's life. The bible says the wickedness of man was so great in the earth that he felt regret that he had made man.

Genesis 6:5 - "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

At this point in time humans were living over 900 years. Couple this longevity with boredom and an imagination that needs some sort of satisfaction to entertain one's self. Here we get down to some real wickedness in order to keep us entertained for so long. The earth is just too good and it promotes long life spans for sinful humans. If God doesn't change the natural processes of the earth all future generations of humans will continue to live centuries long. God remedies the situation with the following verse in Genesis.

Genesis 5:3 - "And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be 120 years."

The spirit mentioned here has to be the air we breathe and all that brings about longevity. I believe the original atmosphere had a complex cocktail of gases and substances that made everything work better. After the Flood new features of the new atmosphere became manifest.

1. The Rainbow effect
2. Fermentation - Noah accidental drunkenness
3. Gradual reduction of life spans
4. Fungus proliferation - The real reason behind circumcision requirement and why yeast is not allowed during holy events

In order for God to make such a drastic change to the original atmosphere he had to make a huge change in the law that kept that in place. I believe there was a change in the solar system arrangement to bring about that major change to earth. God makes mention of this damaging event to the earth in Genesis 6.

Genesis 6:13 - "And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them, and behold, I will destroy them with the earth."


I believe God is going to reconfigure the solar system again to bring about a new heavens and earth. All things above the earth's surface are considered to be heavenly in the bible and the other planets in the solar system fit that bill. The earth will become new because there will be a transformation within our biosphere and possibly on land. John saw in vision that the Mediterranean ocean became dry land in the future world. A great change will happen to the current atmosphere and this will bring about longevity in humans once again. The earth will become good again. This is when Jesus returns and sets up new Jerusalem on earth. It becomes the kingdom where he is King of Kings.