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Dove Soap Ad Features Transgender Mom, Facebook Censors Critics

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posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

It's amazing how many people I have seen on here pretty much saying, "How dare you not be tolerant of my intolerance!"




posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Meee32




But if someone came up and said that to me I would probably just laugh at the randomness. XD



I bet you wouldn't laugh if someone called your child a grotesque little muppet that isn't too bright, point being everyone but the softest and weakest among us has a line and mine is being intentionally and repeatedly misgendered.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: Meee32

Where is she asking that you accept it? She quite clearly stated that she doesn't care what you think. She just wants you to show her respect and address her by her preferred pronoun or title.

How does complying with that request affect your life in anyway? The only reason to not comply is because you're a prejudicial a**hole that is looking to start something.

Also your scenario is in no way the same thing. A transgender can live a perfectly normal, successful, happy life. The only reason there is such a high level of depression/anxiety/etc is due to the perception and reaction of society. That means that being transgender is not a mental disorder.

On the other hand if you think you're a turkey then odds are you're not going to be able to interact with society in any meaningful way. And those issues will stem directly from the delusion that you're a turkey. That makes that a mental disorder.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

For what its worth, and this is for my youngest son and I both, being untruthful is hard. It causes me great levels of dissonance.

Even worse, faking something is hard.

Once i become aware that i need to consciously be aware of some preferred change in pronoun, it causes me anxiety that i don't typically feel outside of times when I feel internally conflicted over embracing something i don't FEEL is true.

I've said this before (and its a frequent hanging point): a transpersons right to express themselves as they wish does not over ride my own desire to express myself as I wish. Their right to feel comfortable in daily interactions cannot over ride my own right to feel comfortable (as if either were an actual right)



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If it makes you feel so physically uncomfortable that you absolutely cannot use the preferred pronoun then there are always gender neutral pronouns. There are options. So if someone continues to use a pronoun/title they have been told is not preferred that makes that person a dick. Plain and simple.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Do you think you have the right to dictate how someone describes you?



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: SeaWorthy

From your article:


For young children, there is no surgery or hormonal therapy. At this stage, before puberty, transgender children are making a more cosmetic change, Forcier says.

"We let them be themselves. So, they cut their hair and they wear their clothes and they wear their shoes they want. And they wear jewelry or they play with the kids they want to play with and they do the activities they want to do," she says. "We call that social transition."


They do it



Australian officials have confirmed that a 4-year-old child is going through a sex-change procedure despite the warning last month by the American College of Pediatrics that even treatments, much less surgical intervention, can cause sterility and are based on “unscientific gender ideology” that violate “the long-standing ethical principle of ‘First do no harm.'”
Read more at www.wnd.com...


Most important are the findings of studies (B) mine.



A 2001 study of 392 male-to-female and 123 female-to-male transgender persons Sixty-two percent of the male-to-female and 55% of the female-to-male transgender persons were depressed; 32% of each population had attempted suicide.




The largest study was an analysis of over 300 people who had undergone SRS in Sweden over the past 30 years. The 2011 study demonstrated that persons after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behavior, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population




2016 Research Papers
The important research paper, Sexuality, and Gender: Findings from the Biological, Psychological and Social Sciences, is an exhaustive review of the scientific literature concerning gender identity and sexual orientation. It is significant in that over 500 scientific articles were reviewed by two notable scholars: Dr. Lawrence Mayer, professor of statistics and biostatistics at Arizona State University and a self-described liberal citizen who supports LGBQT rights, and Dr. Paul McHugh who was the psychiatrist-in-chief at John Hopkins from 1975 to 2001. Among the many significant findings is that both doctors concur that neither sexual orientation nor gender identity is innate or immutable (no one is born gay or transgender, and both are fluid). Additionally, both doctors find no evidence to support encouraging children to identify as transgender.




Dr. Paul McHugh has also described his study of people with gender confusion over the past 40 years, 26 of which he spent as the Psychiatrist in Chief of Johns Hopkins Hospital in a 2014 article. He wrote, "In fact, gender dysphoria - the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex - belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder. Its treatment should not be directed at the body as with surgery and hormones any more than one treats obesity-fearing anorexic patients with liposuction."

He went on, "The treatment should strive to correct the false, problematic nature of the assumption and to resolve the psychological conflicts provoking it. With youngsters, this is best done in family therapy.

www.childhealing.com...]
edit on 19-4-2017 by SeaWorthy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




I've said this before (and its a frequent hanging point): a transpersons right to express themselves as they wish does not over ride my own desire to express myself as I wish. Their right to feel comfortable in daily interactions cannot over ride my own right to feel comfortable (as if either were an actual right)



And that's fine but I take you as someone that is smart enough to know that once you cross that line of perceived respect then there is a good chance that same disrespect will be shown to you. So isn't it just easier to be nice to someone so that they will be nice to you back or should we all just going around picking fights because free speech? Doesn't seem like a very practical or pleasant way to live life.

edit on 19-4-2017 by RainbowPhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: Meee32

I think that's either BS or you're a wuss.

You'd do what Rainbow and most of us would do; react physically, think about it later.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

But it causes me physical discomfort. I am not able to not be genuine.

Why should I suffer physical discomfort? Why can't you just accept whatever pronoun is used, and instead judge the intent? Isn't that really what is insulting, afterall?

If it was words and not intent, no one would ever be insulted by a Brit...they are masters at saying the nicest things in the rudest manner.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Someone rudely insisting that you "used the wrong pronoun" doesn't tick you off sometimes?

I know it does to me.

If I just met someone, letting me know that they'd like me to refer to them in a certain way I'll be glad to.

Someone who get's in my face about their pronouns is likely to get the same response as someone calling me a pervert.

YMMV.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If it makes you feel so physically uncomfortable that you absolutely cannot use the preferred pronoun then there are always gender neutral pronouns. There are options. So if someone continues to use a pronoun/title they have been told is not preferred that makes that person a dick. Plain and simple.


That sounds pretty intolerant.

Why would my issue be talked down to in this instance? It causes me psychological distress, which results in physical manifestations (including anger and anxiety) when I am asked to not be truthful. Especially with myself. This is a positive characteristic, and I cannot fathom seeing it as anything but.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:55 AM
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I should add: i know a trans person named "sherry" Worked with her for years. Her birthname is "Raymond", but i'd likely take you to task for calling her that.

To me, she is female. I have no issue with that. Had she not told me about her trans status (or rather, told my wife), i'd have likely not known (or cared to think on it).

It isn't like its a real issue. But an obvious dude in a dress....i would have a hard time with. The pronoun used isn't a choice....it derives from my own perception. And that perception, unless proven otherwise (i've known chicks with beards that are "she" without trouble), that perception rules the vernacular.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Why should I suffer physical discomfort? Why can't you just accept whatever pronoun is used,


Well this is the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen it. Your feeling are the only ones that matter here? What if I'm in discomfort from being misgendered, I'm supposed to just sit there and let you mentally and emotionally abuse me? You know who does that? People who end up killing themselves and buddy I am not one of those people god rest their poor tortured souls.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

You're free to describe someone however you want. However I think it's more important to treat someone with respect until they give you reason not to.

If someone tells you they prefer miss to sir but you keep calling them sir then don't be surprised when they start disrespecting you. Using the wrong pronoun after being told it's wrong means you're making a negative judgment about that person's entire life.

Seriously, how hard is it to just be civil when dealing with people.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 12:00 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Someone rudely insisting that you "used the wrong pronoun" doesn't tick you off sometimes?

I know it does to me.

If I just met someone, letting me know that they'd like me to refer to them in a certain way I'll be glad to.

Someone who get's in my face about their pronouns is likely to get the same response as someone calling me a pervert.

YMMV.


Honestly I don't get misgendered in the real world. Now my friends and family will slip up sometimes but they get some what of a pass on account of having to relearn years of habit. I usually just cock my head sideways and give a look or say "who? I don't know that person" or "so and so is dead, I killed them"



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: SeaWorthy

It should be pointed out that the American College of Pediatricians is a far right group that claims to uphold Judeo-Christian ideals. They number only about 500 people are regularly criticized for ignoring or misinterpreting research to further their cause. They might be even labeled a hate group.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Why should I suffer physical discomfort? Why can't you just accept whatever pronoun is used,


Well this is the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen it. Your feeling are the only ones that matter here? What if I'm in discomfort from being misgendered, I'm supposed to just sit there and let you mentally and emotionally abuse me? You know who does that? People who end up killing themselves and buddy I am not one of those people god rest their poor tortured souls.



The answer to this quandry: your rights end where mine begin.

Because to me, pretending something I don't feel is mental abuse. It may not be for others....but this is what is known as "integrity". Im not able to be untruthful without feeling anguish from it. I can't see how that is a negative thing.



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Oh boo hoo. You feel uncomfortable for a second because you were asked to use a different pronoun. Poor you.

Do you not get what you're doing by calling a transgender the wrong pronoun after being corrected? You're essentially saying, "Hey dumb dumb do you not know what gender you are? You damn fruitcake!"

There's a reason why suicide is so high among transgenders. Unacceptance by society. Last time I checked nobody killed themselves because they had to call someone by a specific pronoun.

Like I said, gender neutral pronouns exist. Why would you be uncomfortable using one of those?



posted on Apr, 19 2017 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Why should I suffer physical discomfort? Why can't you just accept whatever pronoun is used,


Well this is the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen it. Your feeling are the only ones that matter here? What if I'm in discomfort from being misgendered, I'm supposed to just sit there and let you mentally and emotionally abuse me? You know who does that? People who end up killing themselves and buddy I am not one of those people god rest their poor tortured souls.



The answer to this quandry: your rights end where mine begin.

Because to me, pretending something I don't feel is mental abuse. It may not be for others....but this is what is known as "integrity". Im not able to be untruthful without feeling anguish from it. I can't see how that is a negative thing.


Ok then don't cry when people clap back at you then when you line step. Don't be a hypocrite, if you can dish then you should be able to take it. If you choose to disregard my emotional well being then I have lost all regard for yours.




your rights end where mine begin.


Agreed and I have a right to politely request that you address me a certain way which if you ignore will grant you the same disregard that you have shown me.

How would you feel if your gay son had been relentlessly bullied for his orientation? How would you feel if had gotten to the point that he decided that enough was enough and took his life? Would you feel differently then? What if one day he is gay bashed to death because he spoke up in defense of himself to a hate monger?
edit on 19-4-2017 by RainbowPhoenix because: (no reason given)



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