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originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: MamaJ
It has mysteries and these mysteries arent for me to know because I do not belong to the fraternity. It's simple and not so hard to understand, really.
You know you can BUY ever single book that are available to Freemasons, right? Even libraries have them.
The only things that aren't generally made public is the accounts, passwords and knocks, but you can still find some of them online.
Freemasonry, the super evil, super secret society that has their information out for everyone to see. So very secret lol.
originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: MamaJ
Freemasonry doesn't define a Mason's religion or faith.
originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: MamaJ
You could believe in God without being religious.
One of our greatest religions, Buddhism doesn't believe in God, yet it is definitely a religion.
originally posted by: MamaJ
Same poster who stated he was an atheist and the brotherhood wasn't religious nor did they believe in a God posted a link that was a PDF for all to see and view the membership form for Freemasonry which was a contradiction to what he said.
The first Masonic Legislator whose memory is preserved to us by history, was Buddha, who, about a thousand years before the Christian era, reformed the religion of Manous. - Albert Pike (Morals & Dogma)
William Schaw - On 28 December 1598 Schaw, in his capacity of Master of Works and General Warden of the master stonemasons, issued "The Statutis and ordinananceis to be obseruit by all the maister maoissounis within this realme. The preamble states that the statutes were issued with the consent of a craft convention, simply specified as all the master masons gathered that day."
You might also find the ancient Chinese legend of Fuxi and Nuwa of interest. Temet nosce!
A Ghanaian man named Godwin was almost 70 when he left the Presbyterian Church and a Masonic Lodge. “There were things going on in the church that I found objectionable,” says Godwin. “For example, there was a lot of infighting, and it is still going on. Sometimes the police had to come to restore peace and order! I did not think this was proper for followers of Christ. Then a problem developed between a fellow Presbyterian and me. A public court heard the case and judged the other man guilty. However, the minister of the church unfairly sided with this man and attempted to censure me before the whole congregation! I gave him a piece of my mind and walked out of the church—never to return. “Some time passed, and Jehovah’s Witnesses called at my home. Initially, I listened simply because I did not want to turn away people who talked about God. But I began to notice that even though I had been a Presbyterian for decades, there was a lot I did not know about the Bible. For example, I never knew that the Bible holds out hope of living forever in Paradise on earth. And when I started attending the meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the manners, and especially the dress and grooming of the youth among them, impressed me very much. These were people who really lived by Bible principles!” Still, ‘buying truth’ required him to make some painful adjustments in his life. Recalls Godwin: “I was a member of a Masonic Lodge. And though it is known as a fraternal society that provides help for its members, I observed rituals that involved the use of skulls and bones and the invoking of spirits. These spirits supposedly help those who interact with them to develop spiritually. “My studies helped me to see that Jehovah God detests any involvement with spiritism because it can bring one under the influence of Satan and his wicked spirit forces. Would I continue as a member of the Masonic Lodge with all its mysticism, or would I quit and please Jehovah? I chose the latter. I destroyed all the Freemason paraphernalia I had, even the suit I used for Lodge meetings. I experienced the truth of Jesus’ promise when he said, ‘The truth will set you free’! (John 8:32) Now I am happily sharing the things I have learned with others. I have no regrets whatsoever.” Many thousands of honesthearted ones have likewise made great sacrifices in order to “buy truth.” Like the three Christians discussed herein, they have no regrets over the changes they made. Bible truth has given them “a fine foundation for the future, in order that they may get a firm hold on the real life.” (1 Timothy 6:19) That “real life” and all its accompanying blessings can also be yours eternally if you will “buy truth.” - The Watchtower 12/15/1997 p. 30
During World War I, Brother Fox worked as manager of a local business. One Sunday morning, at his home in Honolulu, he received a call from David Solomon. Mr. Solomon, operating a garage at a local military post, requested supplies and inquired if Ellis would open the store to fill his order, and this Ellis consented to do. Brother Fox recalls: “As he drove me to the store, he remarked that I must be a Mason to be so accommodating. On being informed that I was a minister with the local Bible Students, he asked, ‘Do you ever give talks outside your own church?’ I answered, ‘Yes, if invited.’ Then he informed me that he was the master of the Masonic lodge at Fort Schofield and invited me to speak there. Of course, I did not tell him that I had never given a public talk. I prepared and used a chart similar to the one found at the front of Volume I of the Studies in the Scriptures. Preparing for and giving that first public talk gave me a chance to put into practice some of what I had learned from Walter Bundy.” David Solomon thereafter met regularly with the small group of Bible Students. In spite of stiff opposition, he later resigned from the Masonic order and was baptized by Brother Fox. - Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses 1978 pp 74, 75.
"We note also that the Order of Free Masons, if judged by its past history, has some secret object or scheme, more than fraternity and financial aid in time of sickness or death. And, so far as we can judge, there is a certain amount of worship or mummery connected with the rites of this order and some others, which the members do not comprehend, but which, in many cases, serves to satisfy the cravings of the natural mind for worship, and thus hinders it from seeking the worship of God in spirit and in truth—through Christ, the only appointed Mediator and Grand Master. In proportion as such societies consume valuable time in foolish, senseless rites and ceremonies, and in substituting the worship of their officers, and the use of words and symbols which have no meaning to them, for the worship of God, in his appointed way—through Christ, and according to knowledge and the spirit of a sound mind—in that proportion these societies are grievous evils, regardless of the financial gains or losses connected with membership in them." — June, 1895, Zion's Watch Tower, page 143
He emphasizes this, saying, "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another as I have loved you." (#Joh 13:34.) Ah, we get the thought that the Church is a blessed brotherhood of all those who not only love God supremely, so that they delight to do His will, even at the cost of self-interest, but who also love one another as Christ loved them, which signifies to the extent of willingness to lay down their lives for one another! We look in vain for such an organization amongst men. We perceive various bundles or organizations under various names, all professing love, but none of them even dreaming of union with such bonds of love. We are not forgetting the Masons, the Odd Fellows, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, the Episcopalians, the Lutherans, the Roman Catholics, etc. But none of these claim to be such a brotherhood as our Lord has described. They do indeed claim to give special attention to each other’s interests, and to have certain reverence for God, but not to the extent that our Master intimated—not to the extent of laying down their lives in doing the will of the Father and in their love for the brethren. - Sermon Book / SM697 - The Brotherhood of Christ
"This brings before us the whole question of orders, societies, etc., and what privileges the New Creation has in connection with such organizations. Is it right for them to be members of these societies? We answer that while Church associations are purely religious, and labor and beneficial organizations in general are purely secular, there are still other orders which combine the religious and the secular features. As we understand the matter, for instance, the Free Masons, Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias, etc., perform certain rites and ceremonies of a religious kind... We place upon one level all of those who have any religious ceremonies, teachings, etc., and consider them all as parts of Babylon ... We admonish the New Creation to have nothing whatever to do with any of these semi-religious societies, clubs, orders, churches; but to "Come out from amongst them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing." (`2 Cor. 6:17`)" —1904; "The New Creation", pp. 580-581
I am not judging at all, I am merely saying, so far as I can tell. But my understanding is, that all of these are bundles, and each bundle is getting tighter. Some of you know a great deal more about Freemasonry than I do, and I am not here to say anything against it, because I do not know anything to say, and I do not know as I would say it if I did know it. The Lord did not send me to preach against Masonry or Odd Fellowship, nor against Presbyterianism or Methodism. Our opportunity is to tell the truth, to preach the true gospel of Christ, and the Lord says that this message is to have its effects on the different hearts. Now, if you find yourself in any kind of a bundle, you know that is not the program so far as the wheat is concerned. The wheat is to he gathered into the garner; it is not to be put into bundles in the present life. The wheat is to be free. If you find yourself in any kind of a bundle, better get out of the bundle. Trust in the Lord, and be in harmony with Him, and this will take you out of all kinds of bundles and human organizations, I believe.
I should, perhaps, say a cautionary word here to the effect that I would understand this would mean, for instance, that if I were a carpenter I would prefer to be at liberty, but if it were demanded of me that I should join a union before I could have work, and that I must pay so much of my money into that union's coffers, I should join. I should understand that I was making so much of a contribution to the general weal of the carpenters, and I would have no hesitation in the matter, because there is nothing of a religious kind there. There is nothing that would fetter my heart or mind. But if that organization should do anything I could not approve, I would feel perfectly free to withdraw at any time. So I would make that limitation. But, so far as wheat and tares are concerned, I think there are plenty of bundles all around you, and I notice, too, that these different worldly organizations, if we may so call them in contradistinction to church organizations, are also taking the same methods the church people are taking. It used to be very easy to withdraw from one of the churches and you could say, "I will thank you for a letter," and then they would take the letter and never deposit it, but burn it up, if they desired. And so with the Masons; they had a method by which anyone desiring to leave the order could ask for a demit and he would get that without any particular question. I have been informed that now this is changed somewhat. If you are a Presbyterian, and you wish a letter, they say, "To which church do you wish the letter addressed?" You say, "Oh, just make it out anyway." "Oh we do not do that now; we will give you a letter to a certain, particular church and it is to he deposited there--good when deposited there." And so I am informed that our Freemason friends are doing the same thing; they do not give demits now. If you wish to be transferred to another lodge they will transfer you, but they do not give demits now in the same way they formerly did.
A Brother: Brother Russell, I am a Mason and, unfortunately, hold a high position in the order, and I would like to make a little correction on that. A Mason is perfectly free to leave when he feels so disposed. No restraint whatever is placed upon him.
Brother Russell: I told you in the beginning that I did not know about it myself; I was only relating what a brother told me.
Another Brother: I was a Mason in a different jurisdiction from that of the brother. It may he all right in his particular jurisdiction, but it is not the same in other jurisdictions, as I know.
Brother Russell: You will notice that we never have anything to say against any of these. We have not said an unkind word about Freemasonry, and you never read anything unkind that we have ever said about it, and I do not wish to say anything unkind about Presbyterianism, or Methodism. I think that many of the dear friends in these denominations are good people, and I appreciate their characters. What I talk about sometimes is Presbyterian doctrine, and they talk about it, too. And I have read things they have said about Presbyterian doctrines far harder than anything I have ever said. I sometimes quote in the Watch Tower some things Presbyterians say about their own doctrine, and I occasionally quote in the Watch Tower something the Methodists say about their doctrine, because they say it stronger than I should wish to say it. —1908, Convention Question Meeting - "The Question Book", pp. 318 - 319
originally posted by: MamaJ
I am totally aware of that. What I was confused about is how a mason can say he is an atheist yet sign a membership form which states he believes in a Supreme Being.
In an address delivered in a San Francisco masonic hall in 1913, Russell made positive use of masonic imagery by saying, "Now, I am a free and accepted mason. I trust we all are. But not just after the style of our masonic brethren." He further develops this idea: "true Bible believers may or may not belong to the masonic fraternity, but they are all masons of the highest order, since they are being fashioned, chiselled and polished by the Almighty to be used as living stones in the Temple Built Without Hands. They are free from sin, and therefore accepted by the God of Heaven as fit stones for the heavenly Temple."
Later in this address, Russell stated quite clearly that "I have never been a mason."
originally posted by: Davg80
but you believe it is possible, that there could be lesser Gods if you like, yes?
i pretty much believe in a higher power, but don't believe that it is comprehensible to our evolving brains as of yet.
but everything is possible to me until i have witnessed otherwise, thats probably how i love ATS so much.... so many new possibilities that i have never thought of pop up all the time.
originally posted by: eisegesis
In my quest to deny ignorance, I discovered what I believe to be something of great value. Many of you are aware of the traditional York and Scottish Rites and the coveted 33rd degree, but did you know there is more to Freemasonry than the untrained eye can see?
Elder members and myself have known what lies beyond the traditional boundaries of Freemasonry, but until just recently, something new has been published that caught my attention.
This my friends, is what ATS is all about.
The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick.
The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident
And it seemed many of the members of my Lodge seemed to feel the same way, as I very often asked about this before I joined and during the interviews. I love the Craft, the Chapter, the Brethren I attend Lodge with, I am trying to be a better person both outside and in and trying to help others in the community. Does it matter that I don't believe in a religious God?