Ponerology - The study of Evil

a reply to: ClovenSky

The guy's conflating evil with psychopathy when most psychopaths live their lives without breaking the law.

There was a small survey of surgeons that investigated how many of them were psychopaths. The thinking was lack of emotion would be a good trait to have. Despite a media blitz, the results showed that some surgeons scored higher than others for psychopathy and they all scored higher than the general population. Stress immunity was a greater factor in sampled surgeons which could be a component of psychopathy...I don't know. Study link

The point is we think of serial killers and animal torturers when we think of psychopaths. If they make up 10% of the population we'll work with them, have family members and even friends who are psychopaths. Incidentally, an old military study found only 10% of soldiers were prepared to shoot at their enemies. The rest, reportedly, fired wide or overhead. Makes me wonder if it was the same shadow of psychopathy? A necessary 'evil?'

What frightens me more is, as you mentioned, the capacity to commit evil* that lives in all of us. We think of holocausts or (for me) Rwandan massacres and shake our heads. We all think we'd stand against or be conscientious objectors. 'Sooner be tortured and killed than turn a blind eye or take part,' is how most people see themselves. Yet history shows us otherwise.

* 'Evil' as in the extreme actions humans impose on each other.

a reply to: Advantage

organizations are lame.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I am totally stressed and I am a psychopath.
Organizations might be ok. next time before you draw your sword think twice.

originally posted by: xbeta
a reply to: Advantage

organizations are lame.

Brilliant...

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: ClovenSky

The guy's conflating evil with psychopathy when most psychopaths live their lives without breaking the law.

There was a small survey of surgeons that investigated how many of them were psychopaths. The thinking was lack of emotion would be a good trait to have. Despite a media blitz, the results showed that some surgeons scored higher than others for psychopathy and they all scored higher than the general population. Stress immunity was a greater factor in sampled surgeons which could be a component of psychopathy...I don't know. Study link

The point is we think of serial killers and animal torturers when we think of psychopaths. If they make up 10% of the population we'll work with them, have family members and even friends who are psychopaths. Incidentally, an old military study found only 10% of soldiers were prepared to shoot at their enemies. The rest, reportedly, fired wide or overhead. Makes me wonder if it was the same shadow of psychopathy? A necessary 'evil?'

What frightens me more is, as you mentioned, the capacity to commit evil* that lives in all of us. We think of holocausts or (for me) Rwandan massacres and shake our heads. We all think we'd stand against or be conscientious objectors. 'Sooner be tortured and killed than turn a blind eye or take part,' is how most people see themselves. Yet history shows us otherwise.

* 'Evil' as in the extreme actions humans impose on each other.

Check out this book.. when I was reading it years ago I had posted it and suggested it to a few folks. Its incredibly interesting... and also interesting at the sham psychiatry can be!

The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry

a reply to: Advantage

I love Ronson's stuff!! Top guy.

I've been meaning to read it but he says so much in his interviews that it's like I already know the main points. Did he interview proper psychos in prisons? Was that him?

There was radio doco 2015/6 that offered new ways of looking at killer psychopaths. Previously they'd been thought of as having no morality at all - ruthless and utterly selfish. A pair (iirc) of psychologists went deeper in their interviews and uncovered a morality in their clients. Won't be much comfort to Dahmer victims or any of the other few dozen sreial killers. "OK, I'm about to be slowly killed on a moral basis. Hmmm that doesn't make me feel better somehow."

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Advantage

I love Ronson's stuff!! Top guy.

I've been meaning to read it but he says so much in his interviews that it's like I already know the main points. Did he interview proper psychos in prisons? Was that him?

There was radio doco 2015/6 that offered new ways of looking at killer psychopaths. Previously they'd been thought of as having no morality at all - ruthless and utterly selfish. A pair (iirc) of psychologists went deeper in their interviews and uncovered a morality in their clients. Won't be much comfort to Dahmer victims or any of the other few dozen sreial killers. "OK, I'm about to be slowly killed on a moral basis. Hmmm that doesn't make me feel better somehow."

Seemed that some were and others were hoping to be labeled as psychopaths. LOL! Weird.. but the book and his final verdict is fascinating. Basically the psychopath test needs to be dumped.. and fast.. cause so many of us would score high on it.

Yeah, the Dahmer thing... I recall Dr Dietz saying that the deaths were a side effect and not the real intent of Dahmer. His main intent was to not be abandoned. Incredible!

a reply to: Advantage

My mum used to read all those murderer books when I was at school so I read some of them too. The Dahmer one was the last I ever read. There was some scene that got stuck in my mind for days and wouldn't have been anything nice. Thankfully I only have the memory of the experience and have forgotten the horrific scene.

Than again, I watched the 'Iceman' doco and found it fascinating. He did something to test his own empathy and just didn't have it. It was a psychopath realising they were a psychopath. Like the abyss looking back.

Back on the psychopath test. We're all spectrum people really so, in practice, we should all score somewhere on just about every psychologist test there is. I score high on Asperger's and yet I score high on empathy too which should cancel out the validity of both lol.

originally posted by: Advantage

originally posted by: xbeta
a reply to: Advantage

organizations are lame.

Brilliant...

did you know mavada was a name in mortal combat? i didnt.

still there is something in your the tone of your voice. that i want to get rid of. well you just left herry face down. i thought perhaps you wanted to know it. because i am skipping my rage. have a nice day.

Young hot chicks totally dig psychopaths. Don't want to believe me? Try acting like one, it really works, trust me.

a reply to: CulturalResilience

yeah thats true. i think i am using them

Maybe these concentrated group of psychopaths, say in politics, are not that successful because they are of average intelligence. The group overall doesn't have the geniuses that pop up sporadically in the regular population.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
The guy's conflating evil with psychopathy when most psychopaths live their lives without breaking the law.

Thank you for the link.

Could a percentage of these people without a conscience never commit evil? What if half of this group commits no crimes and learns morality through observing and mimicking others? Would that disprove the theory that those who do take pleasure in another persons agony are the main manifestations of wrongness in this reality? Or do all of the small transgressions of every single person acting in their own self interests add up to the state of the society that we currently experience? That would mean that evil could be completely random and the problems of our society and our current political system is because of us. Are there simply more people at this point of time that subtract from the experience than add to it? They feed the wrong wolf.

It also seems like a lot of people are against psychology in general and I can understand that. There is a lot of hubris in the claim of knowing how the human mind works. But we have to start somewhere don't we? Wouldn't it benefit the course of human development to discover these things? We may not even be close to figuring this puzzle out but why is the path so unpopular?

I am starting to go through the book now. Whether or not the information is factual, it certainly offers original and unique ways of viewing things so far. It doesn't mean I have to adopt what I read but sometimes how others put together reality is very fascinating.

There are some claims in the book that brain scans (fMRI) show up differently between psychopaths and normal people when they are exposed to 'unpleasant homicide scenes' versus neutral pictures. A non-psychopath show lots of activation in the amygdala to unpleasant images compared with seeing normal images. But there was virtually no difference in the parts of the mind when psychopaths were shown 'unpleasant homicide scenes' versus neutral pictures.

Oh well, the search continues.

originally posted by: ClovenSky

originally posted by: 123143

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: 123143

Well, thank you very much for your response, but I am having a hard time discovering your point. Are you saying that this issue is very simple and the presented information is just confusing the underlying problem?

Would you be able to explain where the 'fail' is?

Did you read the rest of the thread? Did you read my reply?

Question answered.

I responded to your reply. You didn't answer the question.

Nevermind. I have a feeling that I am being trolled here. No further response necessary.

I wonder, do psychopaths have the awareness that they are missing a key feature that makes a person human? When confronted with this deficiency, does the mind of a psychopath just shut down and then lash out with nonsense?

Interesting.

Psychopaths don't tend to get angry. They devise a strategy to deal with it.

"Lashing out" would compromise their "cover". They're organized. The last thing they want is others to see is who they really are.

originally posted by: xbeta
a reply to: CulturalResilience

yeah thats true. i think i am using them

Don't feel bad, hypergamy is a natural component of the female make up.

a reply to: SpeakerofTruth

Yup, think I agree with all of that. It's way too fishy. Just wish there was some way to make sense of it but oh well. Being able to pick out problems is the first step, so that's been pretty useful.