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Ponerology - The study of Evil

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posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 01:57 PM
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I ran across this link and found the subject material fascinating. Basically it states that 'evil' is the word that we have assigned to people who do not have a conscience.

The possibility to perform evil acts is with us all. The ability of abstract thought, empathy and putting yourself in another persons shoes is what leads to morals. There are people that do not possess a conscience, known as a psychopath and people that only possess a weak conscience that could be classified as a sociopath. These people represent about 5%-10% of the population.

This subject material has probably been discussed numerous times already but I found this to be a a really good read so far.

Intro to the full book:
P O L I T I C A L P O N E R O L O G Y - Andrew M. Lobaczewski


What is evil? Historically, the question of evil has been a theological one. Generations of theological apologists have written entire libraries of books in an attempt to certify the existence of a Good God that created an imperfect world. Saint Augustine distinguished between two forms of evil: “moral evil”, the evil humans do, by choice, knowing that they are doing wrong; and “natural evil”, the bad things that just happen – the storm, the flood, volcanic eruptions, fatal disease. And then, there is what Andrew Łobaczewski calls Macrosocial Evil: large scale evil that overtakes whole societies and nations, and has done so again and again since time immemorial. The history of mankind, when considered objec- tively, is a terrible thing.



Hervey Cleckley actually comes very close to suggesting that psychopaths are human in every respect – but that they lack a soul. This lack of “soul quality” makes them very efficient “machines”. They can write scholarly works, imitate the words of emotion, but over time, it becomes clear that their words do not match their actions. They are the type of person who can claim that they are devastated by grief who then attend a party “to forget”. The problem is: they really do forget.

Being very efficient machines, like a computer, they are able to execute very complex routines designed to elicit from others support for what they want. In this way, many psychopaths are able to reach very high positions in life. It is only over time that their associates become aware of the fact that their climb up the ladder of success is predicated on violating the rights of others. “Even when they are indif- ferent to the rights of their associates, they are often able to inspire feelings of trust and confidence.”



But that 90-some percent of normal people know that something is wrong! They just can’t quite identify it; can’t quite put their finger on it; and because they can’t, they tend to think that there is nothing they can do about it, or maybe it is just God punishing people.

What is actually the case is that when that 90-some percent of human beings fall into a certain state, as Łobaczewski will describe, the psychopaths, like a viru- lent pathogen in a body, strike at the weaknesses, and the entire society is plunged into conditions that always and inevitably lead to horror and tragedy on a very large scale.

The movie, The Matrix , touched a deep chord in society because it exemplified this mechanistic trap in which so many people find their lives enmeshed, and from which they are unable to extricate themselves because they believe that everyone around them who “looks human” is, in fact, just like them – emotionally, spiritu- ally, and otherwise.



It has often been noted that psychopaths have a distinct advantage over human beings with conscience and feelings because the psychopath does not have con- science and feelings. What seems to be so is that conscience and feelings are re- lated to the abstract concepts of “future” and “others”. It is “spatio-temporal”. We can feel fear, sympathy, empathy, sadness, and so on because we can imagine in an abstract way, the future based on our own experiences in the past, or even just “concepts of experiences” in myriad variations. We can “see ourselves” in them even though they are “out there” and this evokes feelings in us. We can’t do some- thing hurtful because we can imagine it being done to us and how it would feel. In other words, we can not only identify with others spatially – so to say – but also temporally – in time.
The psychopath does not seem to have this capacity.


And some more interesting information on page 40.

Here is a link to the book pdf:
Political Ponerology - Book PDF

The intro even suggests that maybe people that have a conscience are of a different race compared to those that are without.

Fascinating and I apologize if this has been posted before. The only ATS articles that I could find were from 2009/2010.




posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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Yes. I am familiar with the concept. It's basically the study of elitist psychopathology. Something that's not straight facedly deniable.
edit on 15-4-2017 by SpeakerofTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 02:12 PM
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The preview even suggest that psychopaths are notable not only for their lack of a conscience but may delight in other peoples suffering or even thrive off of the pleasure in the harm they inflict:


Anyone who has ever observed a cat playing with a mouse before killing and eating it has probably explained to themselves that the cat is just “entertained” by the antics of the mouse and is unable to conceive of the terror and pain being ex- perienced by the mouse. The cat, therefore, is innocent of any evil intent. The mouse dies, the cat is fed, and that is nature. Psychopaths don’t generally eat their victims.

Yes, in extreme cases of psychopathy, the entire cat and mouse dynamic is car- ried out. Cannibalism has a long history wherein it was assumed that certain pow- ers of the victim could be assimilated by eating some particular part of them. But in ordinary life, psychopaths don’t normally go all the way, so to say. This causes us to look at the cat and mouse scenario again with different eyes. Now we ask: is it too simplistic to think that the innocent cat is merely entertained by the mouse running about and frantically trying to escape? Is there something more to this dynamic than meets the eye? Is there something more than being “entertained” by the antics of the mouse trying to flee? After all, in terms of evolution, why would such behavior be hard-wired into the cat? Is the mouse tastier because of the chemicals of fear that flood his little body? Is a mouse frozen with terror more of a “gourmet” meal?



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
Yes. I am familiar with the concept. It's basically the study of elitist psychopathology. Something that's not straight facedly deniable.


It does appear that a lot of people that obtain power or seek out those positions may have this 'advantage' that regular humans don't possess. It goes on to question different ways in which people that inherit these traits through the Y chromosome, all the way through being mentally corrupted through contact with other psychopaths.



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: ClovenSky

I am always averse to authors that espouse a fatalistic approach in describing sociopaths and psychopathic personalities; "That they can't help it, because it is ingrained in their dna." This carries the effect of avoiding responsibility.
I would argue that these types of people are less necessary than some may believe. There will always be corruption as long as these personalities are allowed to thrive in the modern corporate and work force.



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: Mousygretchen

I agree completely. I am not researching this article towards the goal of not holding these people accountable for their actions or finding excuses. I believe that not having empathy or a conscience does not in any way relieve a person from responsibility. I am reading through this material in the hopes that there is an original or unique view of how to correct this problem.

These people that do not have a conscious are a cancer on our society. They should always be held accountable for their actions. But I think we do a disservice in just lumping their actions in to the category of 'evil'. We need to understand why these people are allowed to function at the positions in our society that they do and neutralize this threat.

Just looking for tools and understanding.



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: ClovenSky

I've been thinking about this a lot actually.

I feel like a lot of things being done are suspect. It's like this weird international, cross-industry conspiracy. Except that seems crazy.

I think is at least in part due to functional psychopaths who have risen to positions of prominence.

That means it is a conspiracy, but on a biological level. Psychopaths are intrinsically self motivated (as we all are), but due to their inability to experience normal emotions they end up seeking higher levels of self gratification, den at the expense of others.

They're able to tell which movements and ideologies further their own goals and aren't reserved about implementing strategies that most others would balk at.

So there's this natural collaboration that happens, even though they aren't necessarily meeting with each other. They can just identify similar goals that promote their own agenda and pursue those. When in large numbers and high power positions, this leads to a weird collaborative effect that can topple nations if left unchecked.

I think Islam, atheism, socialism, etc are being co-opted because those worldviews, when combined correctly, promote an environment that's conducive toward furthering the goals of the unscrupulous.

And perhaps psychopathy is too narrow. I feel like you have biological psychopathy, but also those who were normal but have been desensitized by their power and the game.



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: swedy13
a reply to: ClovenSky

I've been thinking about this a lot actually.

I feel like a lot of things being done are suspect. It's like this weird international, cross-industry conspiracy. Except that seems crazy.

It's only crazy in the sense that people see it happening and allow it to continue. It's pretty blatant now, and has been for the last 20 years.

People in power, especially people with mental issues, will do anything to maintain power. That includes "secrecy." The argument that, "There isn't any overarching conspiracy," doesn't really wash with me,not given all of the information out about mindsets of people who are involved. People say, "Well, someone would have done let the proverbial cat out of the bag." There have been a number who indeed have over the last 50 or so years, but it went unregarded. Soooo....


edit on 15-4-2017 by SpeakerofTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 03:37 PM
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So much fail in this thread.

Psychopath: No conscience, organized, highly manipulative, and a chameleon.

Yes, they do eat their victims. Dahmer was a psychopath.

Sociopath: No conscience, disorganized, explosive, trouble hiding his impairment.



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: SpeakerofTruth

Hmm. So I'm skeptical when it come to things like the Builderberg (spelling?) group. I feel like that's too tangible. It seems kind of like UFOs. I'm not denying it, but there isn't enough compelling documentation for me to bite.

I think elites in a position of power, especially those encapsulated by an environment of power, is a defensible position. In fact, I've seen it first hand.

I consulted in DC with my uncle. He means well and wanted to pay his people well and create a good work environment, but coming from the Midwest where long-term workers make $15/hr, it was so blatantly obvious they were gaming the system.

$75/hr for creating crappy PDFs that they call "collateral" didn't mean you're intelligent. It means you're a scumbag. The top consultants were billing at $300/hr. Yeah, they have a lot of expertise, but talk about a huge disconnect from the average Americans reality. And that's not even touching the mid to top level players.

I suppose all of this is probably redundant to you or anyone that's been keeping up with things. The Trump election shocked me out of apathy, so I'm playing catchup.

I think my point is it doesn't have yo be this crazy conspiracy (although maybe it is). It could be simple biological drives fueling the chaos.



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: 123143

Well, thank you very much for your response, but I am having a hard time discovering your point. Are you saying that this issue is very simple and the presented information is just confusing the underlying problem?

Would you be able to explain where the 'fail' is?



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: 123143

Well, thank you very much for your response, but I am having a hard time discovering your point. Are you saying that this issue is very simple and the presented information is just confusing the underlying problem?

Would you be able to explain where the 'fail' is?


Did you read the rest of the thread? Did you read my reply?

Question answered.



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: 123143

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: 123143

Well, thank you very much for your response, but I am having a hard time discovering your point. Are you saying that this issue is very simple and the presented information is just confusing the underlying problem?

Would you be able to explain where the 'fail' is?


Did you read the rest of the thread? Did you read my reply?

Question answered.


I responded to your reply. You didn't answer the question.

Nevermind. I have a feeling that I am being trolled here. No further response necessary.

I wonder, do psychopaths have the awareness that they are missing a key feature that makes a person human? When confronted with this deficiency, does the mind of a psychopath just shut down and then lash out with nonsense?

Interesting.



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: swedy13
a reply to: SpeakerofTruth


I think my point is it doesn't have yo be this crazy conspiracy (although maybe it is). It could be simple biological drives fueling the chaos.
It could very well be. That falls in line with the old idea "They're just people like everyone else." Here's the problem I have with that line of reasoning. Most of the elite, not all, but most, really have no iota as to what it is to struggle to make ends meet. Not to sound cliche, but most were born with "silver spoons."

My problem with the whole concept of "they're just like everyone else" is how can that possibly be true when they have no frame of reference to what the life of "everyone else" is like? I mean, to me it's like saying "an astrophysicst is just like a construction worker." How could they possibly have the same values, morals and beliefs the "peasant" does? I just don't see it.
edit on 15-4-2017 by SpeakerofTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2017 @ 07:41 PM
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a reply to: SpeakerofTruth

I think we're arguing the same point. My last response was that even people who come from ordinary backgrounds can get corrupted by opulence. I have rich friends too, and they're spoiled as hell (ie unaware of normal life here, not to mention the rest of the world).

Here's my sticking point, and maybe you have better insight on this. It's the secret meetings.

I know there have been reports of important people (including presidents) attending these things. That certainly leads to conspiracy claims and maybe those claims are justified. I just haven't seen enough info for me to feel like that's conclusive yet.

I think a biological mechanism where psychopaths tilt the scales, even if slightly, can lead to the effect we're seeing today.

I mean, a big question is why it took so long fit this to happen. If there's an organizing force behind this, certainly they wouldn't need hundreds of years.

I think it's a lot of individual, self interested parties that band together based on individual interest. I just can't justify a grand conspiracy theory with the info I've seen so far, although I'd more love to.

Point is, I'm trying to figure out why Western leadership is suicidal, essentially. All I can up with, defensibly, is psychopaths tilting the scales at the highest levels of society, then letting the effects trickle down.



posted on Apr, 16 2017 @ 01:29 AM
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a reply to: swedy13

Oh, don't misunderstand, I am not particularly disagreeing. I think everyone has the potential to be corrupted. It's kind of a difficult thing to answer with any degree of certainty because most people are never placed into a position that's conducive enough to corruption to really answer the question.

I think it just seems like the people who seek power tend to be almost predisposed to corruption. That's not to say ALL because that's not true, but it seems a considerable percentage do.

Nah, we're not really saying anything too different.You may be a bit more skeptical of claims of conspiracy than I am, but we're not really saying anything different. It's good to be skeptical. I don't wholeheartedly believe ALL of the claims myself. Although, I have to say, over the last 20 years, there have been a lot of "fishy" things going on, and it's really no wonder why much of it is fodder for conspiracy "theorists."

As far as why they have been unsuccessful in completing their entire goal is concerned, I just don't think they're as smart as they deem themselves to be. It's either that, or the "peasants" aren't as dumb as the elite think they are.
edit on 16-4-2017 by SpeakerofTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2017 @ 01:33 AM
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there is no evil. all is good.

no. study of evil is only thing because all is evil.
no. Evil of study is the only problem.
no.
edit on 16-4-2017 by xbeta because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2017 @ 03:52 AM
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originally posted by: xbeta
there is no evil. all is good.

no. study of evil is only thing because all is evil.
no. Evil of study is the only problem.
no.


You should get out in the real world and see how long you hold that pollyanna belief.

Yes there is evil.. yes people study it.. and yes, youll encounter it.



posted on Apr, 16 2017 @ 04:02 AM
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a reply to: Advantage

if i were living in a tropic island totally rich and with no idea of death since you didnt met anyone bofore,how would you know evil? you wouldnt. so you try to study evil because you are bored in that island all alone, you make stuff like accidently falling down a tree while there were fruits on the ground and you make up an idea of evil and then...because you know no death and you are still so bored you study it to the extreme to annul it again. so is there evil?no there is you and your sense of studying yourself.because you are booreed.



posted on Apr, 16 2017 @ 04:16 AM
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originally posted by: xbeta
a reply to: Advantage

if i were living in a tropic island totally rich and with no idea of death since you didnt met anyone bofore,how would you know evil? you wouldnt. so you try to study evil because you are bored in that island all alone, you make stuff like accidently falling down a tree while there were fruits on the ground and you make up an idea of evil and then...because you know no death and you are still so bored you study it to the extreme to annul it again. so is there evil?no there is you and your sense of studying yourself.because you are booreed.


No, people actually study evil. They actually study EVIL individuals and interview in prison or psych wards... those who are evil. There aer entire departments within the FBI that study evil .... and try to quantify it, find commonalities in those who are evil, identify patterns ( like the triad pattern for serial killers). We try to find the mechanism of evil so we may identify it and how it manifests in humans.




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