A very simple question that seem to stumped both atheists and evolutionists alike.

And if man is a co-creator with God in discovering and creating science, then the answers are always there. And there to serve the separation from God. Science says proteins do not form outside a living cell, much less get folded into their usable geometries. How did the first cell form if this is the case? Science also says the all the specialized organelles required for cell functions do not exists outside living cells. If you are really paying attention to science, it says there is a God.

a reply to: Phantom423

a reply to: craterman

Ahh science says there is a god does it? Please post the references. You know I've been a scientist for two decades. I hold a number of science degrees. I must have skipped that class or something. Oh wait I never skipped class.

Stop with your personal gnoses, unsubstantiated ones at that.

Post this "If you are really paying attention to science, it says there is a God." I will make it easy, do so from either a recognized Biochemistry, Genetics, or Chemistry text, or Journal. By recognized journal I mean peer reviewed.

Again as a Polytheist, I am open to the idea of deities (obviously). But a a guy who gets paid to commit science. You are wrong. Dead wrong .

Here's a related question. If there is a creator or a God, does it have to be the Christian God? And a further related question when it comes to the beginning of the Universe. The big bang isn't a beginning, it's just an event, so what's the theory on the beginning or cause of that if there is no God? And why can't an evolutionist believe in God?

a reply to: Noinden

Thats tossin a monkey wrench into the works...

or should we call it a primate wrench?

I will make it easy, do so from either a recognized Biochemistry, Genetics, or Chemistry text, or Journal.

LoL! You mean from the group that would be completely destroyed by such a revelation? Yeah, right LoL!
The chances of a simple living cell coming into existence, by itself in nature (the first one with no help from a pre-existing cell) has been estimated at 1:1x10^40,000. Now continue to embarrass yourself by telling us that is even remotely possible.
No proteins without cells. No folding proteins without cells. No organelles (or proteins to even form them) without cells. Anyone who thinks a living cell just self replicated knows nothing about science.

a reply to: Noinden

a reply to: Akragon

Well as a primate I'd go with the latter Quite simply I consider that there is a chance a God, or Gods created existence, there is also evidence that it was not created, and just is. An honest individual would admit to the possibility of such things. Possibility however does not mean it is the absolute only thing

As I have already pointed out, no matter your belief, the eternal is a given or we wouldn't be here. God is the eternal.

a reply to: amazing

a reply to: craterman

So you re going to try the "real science approach" are you? You are going to claim that scientists (who are all evil atheists) have hidden the evidence perhaps?

Tell me neighbour, do you know much of the theory of evolution, and the various hypotheses (yes plural) of biogenesis.

No where in science does it claim that life popped into existence as a cell. No that is a claim about science that creationists make. So yes you just made a true statement. Science does not say a fully functional cell "just popped into existence".

I thus have to ask, what education in the sciences have you had? Or do you just read creationist propaganda on the subject

If it has no cause, it would have no beginning, because it wouldn't exist.

Now what do I win?

a reply to: craterman

You speak as though this is a verifiable fact. Yet you have to acknowledge you can not back this up, beyond your dearest wishes.

originally posted by: craterman
As I have already pointed out, no matter your belief, the eternal is a given or we wouldn't be here. God is the eternal.

a reply to: amazing

How do we know? I guess that's the wrong question. Maybe what happens when we die and why are we here and where are we going?

originally posted by: craterman
And if man is a co-creator with God in discovering and creating science, then the answers are always there. And there to serve the separation from God. Science says proteins do not form outside a living cell, much less get folded into their usable geometries. How did the first cell form if this is the case? Science also says the all the specialized organelles required for cell functions do not exists outside living cells. If you are really paying attention to science, it says there is a God.

a reply to: Phantom423

People are free to believe whatever makes them happy. I certainly have no objection. Science marches on regardless what we all believe.

originally posted by: craterman
And if man is a co-creator with God in discovering and creating science, then the answers are always there. And there to serve the separation from God. Science says proteins do not form outside a living cell, much less get folded into their usable geometries. How did the first cell form if this is the case? Science also says the all the specialized organelles required for cell functions do not exists outside living cells. If you are really paying attention to science, it says there is a God.

a reply to: Phantom423

Tl;dr primordial soup and lots of time. Like monkeys and typewriters.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

No where in science does it claim that life popped into existence as a cell. No that is a claim about science that creationists make. So yes you just made a true statement. Science does not say a fully functional cell "just popped into existence".

So, you're saying a bunch of these cell parts, organelles and proteins, were just laying about, serving no purpose being outside a cell, and just some how made a cell? Slowly? Do you think they had committees? That, takes a lot of faith. And as far as evolution goes, what specie ever has looked for a mutated mate? Do men look for women who have slightly mutated? No specie does, all want a perfect specimen (or as close as their own defects allow for) of what ever they themselves are. Have you seeked the truth? Have you got on your knees and prayed to God for the truth?


a reply to: Noinden

originally posted by: craterman

No where in science does it claim that life popped into existence as a cell. No that is a claim about science that creationists make. So yes you just made a true statement. Science does not say a fully functional cell "just popped into existence".

So, you're saying a bunch of these cell parts, organelles and proteins, were just laying about, serving no purpose being outside a cell, and just some how made a cell? Slowly? Do you think they had committees? That, takes a lot of faith. And as far as evolution goes, what specie ever has looked for a mutated mate? Do men look for women who have slightly mutated? No specie does, all want a perfect specimen (or as close as their own defects allow for) of what ever they themselves are. Have you seeked the truth? Have you got on your knees and prayed to God for the truth?


a reply to: Noinden

You know if you want to understand molecular biology and evolution there are places where you can go to learn that: they're called SCHOOLS. Sign up at your local university for Biology 101 and go from there. It might be very enlightening.

a reply to: craterman

Sigh

Neighbour I am going to suggest that you are only here to troll or proselytize. Or perchance both?

(a) You clearly don’t understand what evolution means, or about how it progresses. (I fully expect you to be the sort to say, “if we evolved from moneys, why are there still monkeys”). The general idea is that life started somehow after self-replicating molecules had been at it for a while. This however is neither here nor there, evolution is not concerned with HOW life started, it is concerned with HOW life changes. Biogenesis is thing to investigate, and yes science only has hypotheses (several) on this. It does not invalidate evolution. YOU are using typical creationist dogma of “if evolution can’t explain how life started it is wrong”. That is an intellectually dishonest approach. If you want to shoe horn in other scientific ideas, put gravity, kinetics and the mechanisms in Organic chemistry in there as well
(b) You are wrong over different species not breeding. A Ligar, a Mule, a Zonkey etc show this, but further more, unless you are from Sub Saharan Africa in ancestry (possible) you have Neanderthals and Denisovians in your genome. Your ancestors (and mine) had sex with others species. Mull that over 😊
(c) Lastly no I’ve never “seeked” the truth, I have sought the truth however. My spiritual path values truth (an fhirinne) over all other things. I pray to many Gods. Jehovah is not one of them. He has no power over me. An Morrigan, An Dagda, Ogma, Lugh, sure, Jehovah? Nah, not my circus not my monkey. So yeah don’t proselytize at me neighbour. I can ask the same to you. Have you oathed to An Morrigan that you’d do something and kept that oath? Made an offering of mead to Ogma, in hopes of gaining a honeyed tongue? Of course not, you are not Senistrognata, just as I am not a Chrisitan.
Slan leat (don’t let that door hit you).

I’ll probably not be responding this weekend (its Friday here) as it’s a three day weekend, and my sons first birthday. Kin before thralls and all that.

a reply to: Phantom423

Ahh don't you know those Schools are full of dangerous liberal thinker types

In all seriousness, I wonder what level of biological education that individual has. I face palmed so much I think my wedding ring left an imprint on my forehead.

originally posted by: amazing
Here's a related question. If there is a creator or a God, does it have to be the Christian God? And a further related question when it comes to the beginning of the Universe. The big bang isn't a beginning, it's just an event, so what's the theory on the beginning or cause of that if there is no God? And why can't an evolutionist believe in God?

Because theology takes credit for what science puzzles out the hard way. If you have a more credible solution that can be verified, feel free to solve the infinite regression problem for us. And while you are at it, how about an airtight definition for exactly what a god is?

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Phantom423

Ahh don't you know those Schools are full of dangerous liberal thinker types

In all seriousness, I wonder what level of biological education that individual has. I face palmed so much I think my wedding ring left an imprint on my forehead.

LOL Biology? What's that?

So, what does your mate look like? Have you ever looked at someone with a genetic defect and said 'oh yeah' ? What about your friends, family?? I don't need any 101 classes to know that truth and neither do you. It is just a simple fact.

a reply to: Phantom423