It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: edmc^2
You sincerely need to read what modern cosmology is saying.
You continue to repeat things that are not true and don't relate to modern physics cosmological models.
originally posted by: DanDanDat
originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: edmc^2
You sincerely need to read what modern cosmology is saying.
You continue to repeat things that are not true and don't relate to modern physics cosmological models.
I agree. I recommend the following book for the OP to read. It is a very well written book on the subject. It chronicals human understanding of time and origins from the prehistoric to modern and than explains the few different directions our understanding might go into the future (ie several current leading edge hypothisies).
The book isn't overly academic it reads more like a history book than a physics book and the author stings together several allegories as he is explaining the cosmology of the different time periods that help you "get into" the subject matter.
www.amazon.com...
originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Conan The Usurper
These are interesting questions.
Let me put it this way. The same human beings 250k years ago could have created space x or computers. They had all the mental and physical faculty to do so. What they lacked was the knowledge.
There are very driven highly intelligent people working in theoretical physics. It isn't a high paying career path full of crony capitalism.
Many of these theories are the combination of the quantum world and the visible world. Concepts like superposition for instance or entanglement. What do these things mean?
The op does not have knowledge of these concepts and has asked st Anselm ways all over again. Really the best argument for god is the teleological one but I won't tell the op. It has its rebuttal as well but it's far less antiquated.
"No one understands Q.M."
originally posted by: Conan The Usurper
a reply to: Conan The Usurper
The universe complexity, it's purpose (if it got one, i don't know), whether there are many dimensions or not, if there is a multiverse, much more complex life forms than us, and so on cannot be understood with our materialistic approach alone. I think there are numerous facets to it, thousands of new kind of pattern thinking and new paradigms needs to develop. I think we have barely scratched the surface. We definitely need to accept that there might be many valid ways to look at the universe and not just from a scientific approach. What if ultimately the understanding was not important, but to live fully was? What if we already knew it?
What if imagination was the ultimate tool? What if thoughts created things for real? What if we were all creators? What if there was no purpose whatsoever, other than the one we might wanna give?
questions, questions, questions
originally posted by: edmc^2
originally posted by: DanDanDat
originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: edmc^2
You sincerely need to read what modern cosmology is saying.
You continue to repeat things that are not true and don't relate to modern physics cosmological models.
I agree. I recommend the following book for the OP to read. It is a very well written book on the subject. It chronicals human understanding of time and origins from the prehistoric to modern and than explains the few different directions our understanding might go into the future (ie several current leading edge hypothisies).
The book isn't overly academic it reads more like a history book than a physics book and the author stings together several allegories as he is explaining the cosmology of the different time periods that help you "get into" the subject matter.
www.amazon.com...
Am I right to assume you've read and understood what the author's premise on the matter? If so, kindly please enlighten me. what is time and where does it begin?
originally posted by: Barcs
The real question here is:
If we don't know whether the universe has a beginning should we make wild guesses about it?
I simply admit we don't actually know the answer to that yet. It's one of the biggest mysteries of the universe. Everybody's got beliefs about it. Why can't we just leave it alone and be patient? Science is still looking into that. One day we may know, or we might never know.
originally posted by: Idreamofme
a reply to: edmc^2
Got an easier one, but no less unsolvable.
"What came first the chicken or the egg"?
Hint: No one knows the answer no matter how smart they sound.
originally posted by: edmc^2
yours is what is called a non-answer answer.
serves no purpose in answering the OP question.
originally posted by: Barcs
originally posted by: edmc^2
yours is what is called a non-answer answer.
serves no purpose in answering the OP question.
Nothing serves purpose in answering the question. That was my point. Nobody knows. It's a question that nobody can answer, whether they are theists or atheists. Your thread title is deceptive because it says atheists and evolutionists, but why not theists?
originally posted by: edmc^2
originally posted by: Barcs
originally posted by: edmc^2
yours is what is called a non-answer answer.
serves no purpose in answering the OP question.
Nothing serves purpose in answering the question. That was my point. Nobody knows. It's a question that nobody can answer, whether they are theists or atheists. Your thread title is deceptive because it says atheists and evolutionists, but why not theists?
Nothing deceptive about it. It's a challenge question to atheists/evolutionists as they claim to be the vanguard, the mantle of authority when it comes to scientific matters.
Those who believe in any of the abrahamic faiths in light of our current understanding, are no different than flat-earthers, either ignorant or willfully ignorant.
originally posted by: edmc^2
a reply to: Xenogears
Those who believe in any of the abrahamic faiths in light of our current understanding, are no different than flat-earthers, either ignorant or willfully ignorant.
To the contrary, I find it way ahead of our time. In fact I think, we're just catching up to it - with the help of modern technology.
originally posted by: edmc^2
a reply to: Xenogears
Those who believe in any of the abrahamic faiths in light of our current understanding, are no different than flat-earthers, either ignorant or willfully ignorant.
To the contrary, I find it way ahead of our time. In fact I think, we're just catching up to it - with the help of modern technology.
If something has no cause, does it have a beginning?
originally posted by: Phantom423
originally posted by: edmc^2
a reply to: Xenogears
Those who believe in any of the abrahamic faiths in light of our current understanding, are no different than flat-earthers, either ignorant or willfully ignorant.
To the contrary, I find it way ahead of our time. In fact I think, we're just catching up to it - with the help of modern technology.
If you knew anything about science and technology, you would know that both are neutral and draw no conclusions other than what the evidence demonstrates. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.
You posed a question in your original post which is mindless.
If something has no cause, does it have a beginning?
The answer is no because the "something" would be infinite. It would have no beginning and no end. And since there's no evidence for absolute infinity, the question is a moot point. So unless you can present evidence to the contrary, why don't you fold up your tent and head for Ken Scam's Ark and take a vacation.
absolute infinity
originally posted by: Xenogears
originally posted by: edmc^2
a reply to: Xenogears
Those who believe in any of the abrahamic faiths in light of our current understanding, are no different than flat-earthers, either ignorant or willfully ignorant.
To the contrary, I find it way ahead of our time. In fact I think, we're just catching up to it - with the help of modern technology.
A cloud that murders children and commands genocide goes hippy while talking of bringing the sword and conflict and asking to be worshipped and loved above even family... yet genetics disproves adam and eve, archaeology disproves Moses, geology disproves the flood. If your story is mostly myths and incoherent fiction, perhaps everything in it is just fiction?
Look into the sky on a clear night, out of the glare of streetlights, and you will see a few thousand individual stars with your naked eyes.
With even a modest amateur telescope, millions more will come into view.
It has been said that counting the stars in the Universe is like trying to count the number of sand grains on a beach on Earth. We might do that by measuring the surface area of the beach, and determining the average depth of the sand layer. If we count the number of grains in a small representative volume of sand, by multiplication we can estimate the number of grains on the whole beach. For the Universe, the galaxies are our small representative volumes, and there are something like 10^11 to 10^12 stars in our Galaxy, and there are perhaps something like 10^11 or 10^12 galaxies.
originally posted by: edmc^2
Nothing deceptive about it. It's a challenge question to atheists/evolutionists as they claim to be the vanguard, the mantle of authority when it comes to scientific matters.