It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
1. a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.
cause
verb. bring into being; bring about
begin
the point or time at which something begins : a starting point — beginning in a sentence.
1. the point in time ... at which something starts.
originally posted by: MotherMayEye
The 'State of Everything' includes its own cause....
originally posted by: luthier
a universe that is its own cause (dimensional, muliverse, etc)
originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Obviously, the Universe(s) is its own cause.
originally posted by: luthier
An entity is its own cause and created the first motion or program, or the universe itself is its own cause.
I happen to lean on the latter and even think of it as a panthiest or pandiest model.
originally posted by: luthier
Without needing to go through infinite regress which is a fail in response to an argument in the formal padogody of logic, you come to a being, a thing, or a collective that lives outside of time space with its own cause.
originally posted by: luthier
Now it can easily be replaced with a panthiest like model or purely the universe itself is its own cause, but these are two possibilities logically speaking...
originally posted by: luthier
But a designer is not illogical at all. It's perfectly logical. It may be perfectly false as well. But it's not illogical to follow the infinite regress far enough as a mental exercise to say we'll god isn't a bad solution really, in its basic a designer outside of everything that is its own cause.
It's not pretty and I don't like to spend too much time on it but it's not completely irrelevant or illogical.
falsity
noun. dishonesty, deception
deceit
fallacy
lie
tale
treachery
originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: edmc^2
Define "the".
Define "physical".
Define "observable".
Define ".".
Define "define".
originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
What are years?
spoon-feed
ˈspo͞onˌfēd/
verb
gerund or present participle: spoon-feeding
feed (someone) by using a spoon.
provide (someone) with so much help or information that they do not need to think for themselves.
originally posted by: toktaylor
...Only after this point began to expand in a "Big Bang" did the universe...begin. ...the universe has always existed...
Use discernment: Discernment is “acuteness of judgment.” It is “the power or faculty of the mind by which it distinguishes one thing from another.” A person with discernment perceives subtleties of ideas or things and has good judgment.
Using discernment, we will be able to recognize those who are merely using “smooth talk and complimentary speech” in order to “seduce the hearts of guileless ones.” (Romans 16:18) Discernment enables you to discard irrelevant information or misleading facts and distinguish the substance of a matter. But how can you discern when something is misleading?
...
originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Phantom423
I watched about half of the Susskind video, last night. I will finish tonight. I really enjoyed it and you are correct that it was right up my alley.
...did the universe...begin. ...the universe has always existed...
Logical contradictions are not possibilities (or possible scenarios), do you deny or acknowledge that?
...
The same question I raised earlier is for everyone who is clicking the reply button on my commentary to luthier or commentary about these subjects and is expecting answers to their questions from me, you first.
While you're at it, you can share your opinion on whether what I described above as the suggested possible scenario by luthier was indeed what he was arguing for or suggested as such and whether or not it's a logical contradiction to say or in essence to argue that (it is possible that):
the universe is its own cause, or caused its own existence, or caused itself to come into existence (before it existed)
Meaning of the word "cause" as used in the context of this thread: 1. a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition. (source: google dictionary)
"gives rise to" is talking about a beginning to the ..."phenomenon, or condition". True or False? Open question to the floor. Remember that luthier nor anyone else in this thread is exempted from using the word "cause" with that implied meaning by logical follow-through in this thread.
originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: whereislogic
This comment (take special note of "..., etc."; luthier used more than 1 terminology than "multiverse"; toktaylor had yet another description for it that wasn't referring to a "multiverse", "multiverse" is not the keyword here) describes the behaviour that I just quoted and explained from toktaylor:
...did the universe...begin. ...the universe has always existed...
Remember, the first part wasn't a question.
The comment described the behaviour and way of arguing or thinking about these subjects in advance, or before toktaylor made his comment. Because it has a recognizable pattern that is described in the bible. And somewhat elaborated on in the 2 pages of the article in my signature and similar articles.
originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: MotherMayEye
Or you can read him saying "the physical observable universe" in the comment you were responding to.
originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: luthier
if thoughts are energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed, then every thought must already exist, in another fabric of string, opening pandora's box may be a realisation of this truth..... if it were a truth that is
originally posted by: edmc^2
There's a question that had been asked around. But somehow, it's baffling why smart thinking people are unable to give a straight answer.
They go round and round explaining how stuffs work and how science work but never giving an answer. Sometimes they say the question doesn't make sense. Some say we don't know the answer. But some protest that it's a leading question. But really, are they being honest as to what they know or is it that they don't want to admit the obvious?
Well let's see where you stand.
But first let me please state this scientific and incontrovertible fact:
Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
So, what's the answer to this simple question:
If something has no cause, does it have a beginning?
What say you?