"Communism for Kids":Published by MIT Press

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
I corroborated my statements. You haven't corroborated ANY of yours. If you want to make claims make sure to "corroborate them".

That post wasn't even directed at you.

Why i brought up Marx? and the fact that he was a rich kid who never worked in his life for money, yet even though he wrote "extensively" about "the working class" he married a rich woman who was part of the aristocracy of Prussia is evidence that even the fathers of "modern day socialism/communism" were people who grew up being part of the elite.

Under socialism, because the leaders are supposed to represent "the people" aka the "collective" in that nation they are exalted, and live in rich mansions. But it didn't, and doesn't make them any less 'socialists/communists"...

What part of "I'm not socialist and I don't give a damn about who Marx was" is giving you trouble?

originally posted by: daskakik
...
What part of "I'm not socialist and I don't give a damn about who Marx was" is giving you trouble?

Why the hell do you keep trying to defend socialism/communism then? Why claim "this is just opinion" when you obviously don't want to provide any evidence to corroborate your claims?

If you want to "claim" this is "just opinion" prove it, otherwise the only one giving "opinion as if it were truth" it is you.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Why the hell do you keep trying to defend socialism/communism then?... Why claim "this is just opinion" when you obviously don't want to provide any evidence to corroborate your claims?

I have already asked you to find a post where I have defended socialism in this thread and you didn't back that claim up.

ThirdEyeofHorus' opinion is just an opinion. Can you prove otherwise?

a reply to: daskakik

So either you're just someone who likes to argue a lot as a form of entertainment, or you are a troll. And by troll, I mean a socialist one.

originally posted by: GokuVsSuperman0
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
"Good of the collective"? Sounds like the Borg...lol anyway I don't see anything wrong with this. Ur in America right? Then what does it matter what you read. As a free society these kids can make their own minds up when they're old enough to vote. What's the point of touting a free nation and then complain when children are taught something you disagree with. It's called freedom, including the freedom to express any idealogy.

No sorry that's exactly how Marxists take advantage of a free society, by publishing propaganda and filtering through the educational system. Did you know that the father of our current educationist system John Dewey was himself a Statist and believed that people exist for the State abs that children needed to be trained to be cogs in the wheel of the State? He also was a signer of the Humanist Manifesto.

originally posted by: Wookiep
So either you're just someone who likes to argue a lot as a form of entertainment, or you are a troll. And by troll, I mean a socialist one.

This is ATS. Denying ignorance used to mean something.

Can you show me where I have defended socialism?

FYI, I'm Guatemalan. I hear stories of how bad US backed right wing gov treated the population in their hunt against communists. I could go all ElectricUniverse with that but I think both sides exaggerate. So no I'm not a socialist troll and I will call BS out whenever I see it.

a reply to: daskakik

You're not calling out BS, you're attempting to argue for the sake of arguing. Pride perhaps? You don't want to "lose" OMG!! Lot's of members pull that # everyday, and all it does it clutter up the boards. Electric has made crystal clear points that you cannot refute, you have failed over and over to disprove him. Yet your continual incessant trolling shows a different perspective on your socialist agenda here.

Keep denying it though, as per protocol. It matters not. It's obvious to me what your goal here is.

originally posted by: Wookiep
You're not calling out BS, you're attempting to argue for the sake of arguing. Pride perhaps? You don't want to "lose" OMG!! Lot's of members pull that # everyday, and all it does it clutter up the boards. Electric has made crystal clear points that you cannot refute, you have failed over and over to disprove him. Yet your continual incessant trolling shows a different perspective on your socialist agenda here.

Keep denying it though, as per protocol. It matters not. It's obvious to me what your goal here is.

You are entitled to your opinion.

The only statement I made is that Venezuelans still have a certain amount of individualism in their lives. You can go on-line and see for yourself. ElectricUniverse's exaggerations have been refuted. Where he is right he is right and I am not arguing that.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: DBCowboy

Well, it would also abolish the constitution, so, it's great without it

Yeah, I figured that one out.

I wish more people would realize the freedoms they would lose if they embraced communism.

I wish more people would realize the freedoms they would gain if they embraced my version of communism.

What version is that? There is no version which will work. People who espouse Communism always seem to believe that it's not Communism that fails but that it just didn't get done right...

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

There's not much point in discussing a topic with people that become completely unhinged by it. You grew up in Cuba and have a very emotional reaction to the words Castro insisted on using. You either refuse or are incapable of absorbing the hundreds of times I've said or other Socialists on this site have said that we don't advocate what Castro et al insisted on calling Communism. You call us Statists and Nazi's while clearly most of us are anti-state and admonish us as utopian while peddling utopian capitalism. However, I wasn't replying to you or the thread but to a question asked directly to me.

Umm it's called experiencing it firsthand instead of taking the spoon fed ideological propaganda.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

They are still anecdotal and can be skewed by the personal experience.

If my family lost everything because of Castro he would seem one way to me. If they ascended within the Communist Party to become wealthy I might see him differently. ElectricUniverse admits that both of those experiences exist in Cuba.

I've personally heard both types of anecdotes as well. I tend to give both equal credence. Then there is hyperbole.

a reply to: daskakik

So, instead of conceding the fact that Venezuela is governed under an oppressive socialist regime, you'd rather defend it by pointing out that some people are still considered "individuals".

That's akin to me defending the Chinese in the event of a communist take-over of the U.S. by pointing out that there are still some hill-folk enjoying their freedoms in the mountains somewhere.

Ridiculous.

originally posted by: Wookiep
So, instead of conceding the fact that Venezuela is governed under an oppressive socialist regime, you'd rather defend it by pointing out that some people are still considered "individuals"

I'm not defending it. I'm stating a fact.

That's akin to me defending the Chinese in the event of a communist take-over of the U.S. by pointing out that there are still some hill-folk enjoying their freedoms in the mountains somewhere.

That is a straw man.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
wow...so of course unless you daskakik is in command of the socialist forces people will continue to fail in socialism huh?... Is that it daskakik?...

I'm not a socialist. I don't want to be in command.

What are you talking about?... political oponents to the socialist/communist regime in Venezuela, and in Cuba, and other true socialist/communist regimes get sent to prison.

I'm talking about people being individuals. You said that socialism is "a political/economic system aims to destroy all sense of individualism."

Stop talking so much BS, you are simply ignoring facts that you don't want to accept, alongside other "socialists".

It isn't BS and what haven't I accepted?

Venezuelans can still be individuals in many ways so, they have not lost that right. That is what I specifically talking about, your incessant need to exaggerate.

Is it fair for me to post a military drill team and claim that people in the US have lost their individuality?

The entire premise of communism/socialism is the collective/hive mind/everything done for the common good/lack of individualism and in the Communist Manifesto calls for abolition of private property rights.
Enjoy your gulag.

a reply to: daskakik

Oh but it seems OK with you that the Venezuelan regime is an oppressive socialistic system. Refute THAT. You won't though. We all know it. Stop pretending you aren't defending it. It's pathetic.

originally posted by: Wookiep
Oh but it seems OK with you that the Venezuelan regime is an oppressive socialistic system. Refute THAT. You won't though. We all know it. Stop pretending you aren't defending it. It's pathetic.

I nevet said it was ok. You are trying to put words n my mouth. I'm not even trying to refute that.

I actually said all governments oppress, just in different degrees.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus
That seems to be what you believe.

a reply to: XAnarchistX

i just want to ask you something. Have you ever in your life read the 10 Planks of Communism?...

Could you explain to us how in the heck those ten planks can be achieved without a government?

"1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State.

7. Extention of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liablity of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc."

How do you accomplish the abolition of "private property"?
How do you introduce and impose a "heavy progressive tax"?
How do you centralize credit, centralize the means of production, etc, etc?
How do you confiscate property that belongs to "rebels and emigrants"?

BTW, the way that "communism" envisions to abolish children's factory labor, is by combining education with industrial production. Or in other words, having children perform hard labor for the state...

You do know that throughout the writings of Marx and Engels they mention "the state" (the government) taking control right? Supposedly there would be a time when none of this will be needed... But seriously, how do you attain that without a form of government?... It is not possible.

How do you make sure people keep "paying their taxes" without a government?... How does a nation updates and repairs/fixes it's aging transportation system, etc?

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That's been debunked several times. Jane bought the house with the money she got from selling an inherited property.

Besides Bernie isn't against personal private property same as most other Socialists.

Also, again, this book isn't actually a children's book. Not sure why you don't get that.

No he just magically thinks the state will be Able to provide free stuff to people without redistributing the wealth ??? He uses the same old line that wealthy people are selfish and the State must force them to "pay their fair share ". ....

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Just a question: did you BUY that book and read it?