"Communism for Kids":Published by MIT Press

originally posted by: Wookiep

Common opinions don't equal "collectivism".

So you guys have "common opinions" and we have "groupthink herd mentality"... got it.

a reply to: Kali74

Better double check the "sources".

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That is how things were when the US was founded. Although some individuals were against it even then, it wasn't a moral imperative despite paying lip service to every man being created equal in the founding document.

Why not abolish slavery in the states that wanted to remain and let the states that wanted to continue leave the collective?

Sorry but you are just making excuses to have things fit.

a reply to: Kali74

You know, you could be right, considering everything seems to be a lie these days. Up is down and down is up etc. Suddenly simple things we learned in school we are now being told are fake or urban legends etc. It's really quite out of hand. It's really impossible to know who to believe anymore.

I tend to listen to those who have actually lived under the oppressive rule of socialism however, that has been present on Earth in this case. Their history tells the story, not Noam Chomsky, an American far left Liberal who's biggest cheerleader is folks like NPR and modern regressives.

Even the Nordic countries are failing due to the un-sustainability of socialism and rampant open immigration policies. This from the testimony of people who live there today. Sweden is turning into a cesspool and set to become a 3rd world nation within 10-20 years. Norway is even set to fail within 25 years, although the temporary fantasy there appears to be doing OK. I have never seen one instance where socialism has actually worked long term, especially within super large nations.

But of course your definition is completely different from mine, and apparently different from what the world has experienced, so we're back to square one.

Sorry Kali, just not gonna see eye to eye with you on this one.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Actually poor parents only have the option of public school and depending on where you live that is the school you must attend.

So basically what it comes down to is that, what you are complaining about can also be the complaints of parents in the US.

Are there differences? Yes, but there are also similarities.

Also, let me double down on the pledge thing. I wasn't actually forced to say it. I was indoctrinated into believing that saying it made me a good american.

Public school was set up to take care of poor families education. It is also a socialist program in which everyone has to sustain it with tax dollars whether they have children or not. The government runs it and now with Common Core there is more federal control over the curriculum and thee is data mining of private information on students and their families plus there is the NGO Bill Gates factor, that is the public/private partnerships described as being part of Agenda 21 Communitarianism which is really another word for communism lite with "sustainable development" . The synthesis from Hegelian dialectical conflict management is the NWO neither right nor left.

originally posted by: Wookiep
I tend to listen to those who have actually lived under the oppressive rule of the socialism that has been present on Earth in this case.

The way you worded the above is interesting since it sounds like you only seem to lend an ear to those being negative.

There is a thread from years ago here where someone who had lived in Yugoslavia under Tito contradicted EU. They said things were better under Tito than after communism ended there. Truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

I think people ready to complain about government, which we can all do, have a special audience in the average american.

What snapped me out of the american dream was learning about the whiskey rebellion. Bad enough that freedom loving George Washington led armed men to collect a tax but the tax was variable and large distilleries in the eastern cities payed less.

That is just one blatant example, who knows how much cronyism was going on during those days but, people swear that it was just one big happy free market.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

How does any of that change what I said?

a reply to: Wookiep

I don't need an apology or to be agreed with. You bothered to look into what I was talking about even if you were a smug jerk initially. That's more than others have done. I hope you keep reading up on the topic. It's sort of like untold history.

a reply to: Kali74

You could believe to be the "tooth fairy" and you could believe that you can turn teeth to gold, but reality will tell you differently.

I am certain you can find people out there who actually "believe" they are "the tooth fairy". Heck, there are people out there that believe that they are/were Jesus...

List of people claimed to be Jesus

a reply to: Kali74

wow...so disagreeing with you means people are jerks, and whatever you want to insult people with simply for disagreeing with you... How many books have people written about "seeing Elvis"?... I guess ELVIS IS ALIVE!!!...

Believing in something doesn't make it real.

I've always wondered, with all the various countries living with all the various types and flavors and varieties of socialism and communism in the world, why the people in *this* country that doesn't have it and is one of the very few that doesn't to any great degree refuse to move to any of those other countries that they say have systems they would prefer and instead seek so very hard to bring those systems here?

Could it be that all those other countries, for some reason or other, just plain don't look as nice as this one, and you are just convinced that if you transplanted what you want here, nothing else that you like about this country would change to make it crappy like those other places are, but that this socialism you want will somehow magically happen in a vacuum and not affect anything else about this country or your preferred lifestyle and freedoms in any way, shape or form?

originally posted by: Bone75

I was just wondering because throughout this thread you've been repeating everything my third or fourth grade teacher taught us practically word for word...

...which is relevant seeing as how you have such a problem with indoctrination.

LOL...some other people in this thread have repeated false claims about what socialism is, as well as claiming there are no differences in classes within communism, and evidence has proven these people are wrong.

originally posted by: Bone75
Do you remember having to look at drawings of groups of people and figuring out which ones were the commies?

I didn't have to look at any "drawings" I saw what socialism/communism does to people and an entire nation. Some of the same people in this thread claiming "socialism/communism" is great, are the same people who claim all Cubans who have left the island and have spoken/written about what really happens in Cuba claim "Cuban exiles are lying". Those same people rather believe socialist/communist dictators than what people who lived/live under the iron fist of such dictators have to say...

Some people rather live believing in a created fantasy that only exists in their minds, than actually believing in reality.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Might want to take your own advice.

a reply to: ketsuko

The thing is that you have pretty much the same thing they have.

Just because you think you don't, doesn't make it so.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: M5xaz

I saw a video posted by the OP in another thread about Venezuela. Despite the label what was seen is that "socialism" in Venezuela is actually crony-capitalism.

The OP has also told me of having visited a part of Cuba where the wealthy live in mansions more luxurious than any that they had seen elsewhere inhabited by the well connected. Cuba's "communism" sounds a lot like crony-capitalism.

I know from having lived in the US that crony-capitalism is alive and well there.

Seeing a pattern here?

Maybe my tinfoil hat is on to tight.

The capitalistic societies of the West remain the most free on Earth and in human history.

Socialism/Communism always turns out like Cuba and Venezuela - you are placing political & economic control in even fewer hands where politics, not result, matter.

You need to read "Animal Farm"

originally posted by: M5xaz
The capitalistic societies of the West remain the most free on Earth and in human history.

I agree.

Socialism/Communism always turns out like Cuba and Venezuela - you are placing political & economic control in even fewer hands where politics, not result, matter.

Right again

You need to read "Animal Farm"

I've read it. Great book. You might want to figure out how it applies to you as well as Cuba and Venezuela.

originally posted by: daskakik

Might want to take your own advice.

For what?... You are the one making claims without presenting one iota of evidence...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

What does heeding your own advice have to do with me backing up claims that you say I made, which I actually never made.

You are living in your own bubble and it might not actually be reflecting reality?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I'm not make believing anything. I've backed up everything I've said. You can read the information or not.

originally posted by: Kali74
I'm not make believing anything. I've backed up everything I've said. You can read the information or not.

Ever since he flat out dismissed the person who said life under Tito was better than what came after, I knew it was a waste of time bothering with any type of proof.

I even posted pictures of people in a black market in cuba looking rather at ease after he said that trading in the black market would get you arrested. Didn't matter, like a looped tape.