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"Communism for Kids":Published by MIT Press

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posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Given the available data...

The whole article is worth a read. Mein Kempf is assigned a lot too.


I guess we both need to check how good our intuition is.




posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 09:29 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74

I'm not a Communist so, no. I'm a Socialist... that doesn't make me automatically collectivist. Socialism is an economic system that can embrace both individualism and collectivism.


Yes it does makes you a "collectivist" because socialism revolves around collectivism over individualism. Because "socialism/communism" emphasize on "the good of the collective" the weaker links (individuals) in the collectivist system "have to be sacrificed for the good of the community", or "for the good of the collective/the majority of the people."

When you, and some others keep claiming that socialism is just an economic system you present proof that you have no idea what socialism actually is. How do you implement the "social reforms" of socialism and communism without a central body (government) being in charge?

Socialism gives power to the state claiming it's doing it for the collective good. Socialism just like communism are both a political and economic systems.

Without a central form of government, socialism /communism would just be anarchy. Because without a central body making sure to "distribute the products" equally, as socialism and communism claim to do, there would be people who would use more than others. Heck without a central government socialism/communism would just be "the law of the jungle".

Just like "democracy" aka "direct democracy" in it's raw form is about the "majority having all the rights", or the "strongest group having all the rights". This is why socialism/communism and even "democracy/direct democracy" oppress "individual rights for the good of the collective".

Capitalism however is just an economic system.


edit on 17-4-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I would even argue that capitalism is not so much a system as it is the natural order. Even in the most repressive and authoritarian of socialist societies, capitalist black markets spring up, sometimes saving the very lives of inhabitants from state mismanagement.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

...but suffice it to say that we mere mortals cannot implement such a system ourselves.


Peter walked on water too.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Socialism/communism is all about contradictions.

Article 4 of the 1936 Constitution of the U.S.S.R. states:


...
ARTICLE 4. The socialist system of economy and the socialist ownership of the means and instruments of production firmly established as a result of the abolition of the capitalist system of economy, the abrogation of private ownership of the means and instruments of production and the abolition of the exploitation of man by man, constitute' the economic foundation of the U.S.S.R.
...


www.departments.bucknell.edu...

Abrogation = abolition

Nobody said you could not have your own furniture, or clothes under socialism/communism... However you are very limited to what you can buy.

Anything that produces, or can earn you money is controlled by the state. That farm that your family owned for generations and your father/grandfather worked with his own hands is taken from you "for the good of the collective". You cannot own land, or anything that produces that you can rent, or sell to others.

Under socialism/communism as a "proletariat" you cannot make enough money to be able to own land, or any means of production. This is also "part' of the reason why people in socialist/communist regime earn a lot less money than people in capitalist countries can earn.

That claim you made that there is no distinction in clasess within a socialist/communist regime is false.


...
Chapter II. Proletarians and Communists

The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole. (the communist party/government)

The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.
...

www.marxists.org...

There is a distinction made between the "proletarians" or the majority of the people and the "communists" (who are part of the communist party/government).

Because of the rationing and redistribution by means of the state (the communist party), people in a socialist/communist regime earn less money than most people do in capitalist countries.

This means you have less money to spend, hence you cannot buy things that normally people in capitalist nations can buy/own. This will stop any attempt by "individuals within the proletariat" to own any means of production, including land.


edit on 17-4-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Nobody said you could not have your own furniture, or clothes under socialism/communism...

Some did.

Some would say that your clothes are part of your personal expression and being able to wear what you want is part of freedom of that expression.

Everything else is irrelevant.


ETA:

That claim you made that there is no distinction in clasess within a socialist/communist regime is false.

I never made that claim. You might want to check that out. I wasn't even into the habit of saying that even before you told me about the mansions in Cuba. Now I just default to that.



edit on 17-4-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

Some did.

Some would say that your clothes are part of your personal expression and being able to wear what you want is part of freedom of that expression.

Everything else is irrelevant.


Under a socialist/communist regime you have to wear the colors of the revolution while going to school because you are representing the collective.

North Korea.



Cuba.



China.



When you see some children wear some different clothes is because their parents cannot afford to buy spares, but children and teenagers going to school have to wear at least the red scarf and skirt/pants. If you keep going to school without the entire uniform demerits are awarded to you, and eventually the teachers (representing the communist party) will have a talk with the parents.





edit on 17-4-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.

edit on 17-4-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: correct link.

edit on 17-4-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:16 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

When you, and some others keep claiming that socialism is just an economic system you present proof that you have no idea what socialism actually is.


Socialism is a system in which the basic needs of every citizen are provided by the government through heavy taxation of the working class.

Me no like.


Is that about right?


Capitalism however is just an economic system.


Tell that to all the people sitting in private prisons in this country.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So?, I had to say the pledge of allegiance every morning, in the US.

Some schools also force you to wear their colors. Doesn't really mean that mom can't dress you up differently outside of school.
edit on 17-4-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

How about you save your walls of text just trying to tell me about myself. You don't know me.
edit on 4/17/2017 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:35 PM
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originally posted by: Bone75

Socialism is a system in which the basic needs of every citizen are provided by the government through heavy taxation of the working class.

Me no like.


Is that about right?



Not really, you still have to buy/purchase the food, clothing ect. However, rationing is enforced although different socialist/communist regimes implement different forms of rationing.

In China it was through the commodity ration/coupons known as liang piao

In socialist/communist regimes like Cuba, and Venezuela a "libreta" or rationing card is issued per family. You can only buy a certain amount of different foods if you have the means to purchase them. Even if you had the money, in a socialist/communist system you can only purchase as much food and other products as the state/communist party deems you and your family can buy.



originally posted by: Bone75

Tell that to all the people sitting in private prisons in this country.


People in private prisons are not there because of their beliefs, but because they broke the law.

People in nations like China, Cuba, North Korea etc get sent to prison, or murdered over their ideologies if they are "counter-revolutionary" or "counter-communist".

In China people are executed over minor offenses, including religion.


edit on 17-4-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.

edit on 17-4-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:37 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

How about you save your walls of text just trying to tell me about myself. You don't know me.


I am not discussing you but the views you hold about socialism which are completely false and different than reality.

You posted your belief that socialism is just an economic system and this is false.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

So?, I had to say the pledge of allegiance every morning, in the US.

Some schools also force you to wear their colors. Doesn't really mean that mom can't dress you up differently outside of school.


You parents in countries like the U.S. have a say on what school you can attend. In socialist/communist regimes neither your parents nor you have a say on what school you can go to as a child.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Actually poor parents only have the option of public school and depending on where you live that is the school you must attend.

So basically what it comes down to is that, what you are complaining about can also be the complaints of parents in the US.

Are there differences? Yes, but there are also similarities.

Also, let me double down on the pledge thing. I wasn't actually forced to say it. I was indoctrinated into believing that saying it made me a good american.
edit on 17-4-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

They are as similar as black is to white. After all, they both are influenced by light or the lack of light.

Trying to say that socialism/communism have similarities to a "representative Constitutional Republic" is like saying they are as similar as black is to white.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:55 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
They are as similar as black is to white. After all, they both are influenced by light or the lack of light.

What a crock. I just pointed out the similarities.


Trying to say that socialism/communism have similarities to a "representative Constitutional Republic" is like saying they are as similar as black is to white.

That isn't what I said at all. I said that what you pointed out is similar to what some parents/students in the US experience.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It's not just my view. It is the original definition of the term as well as what most Socialists define Socialism as. I am not unique in this thought.

"We are convinced that freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality." - Mikhail Bakunin
edit on 4/17/2017 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

What a crock. I just pointed out the similarities.


And I just proved to you that the color black has a similarity to the color white, they are wavelengths in the visible spectrum of light.

Heck, I could even say that all colors we can see have a similarity. They are all different wavelengths in the visible spectrum as well. Yet, they are all also very different.


edit on 17-4-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 11:03 PM
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a reply to: Kali74




"We are convinced that freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice


Well that's where the problem lies. Sounds an awful lot like the modern SJW victim theme.

What about when rampant "privilege" and "injustice" are made up fairy tales brought to us by billionaires influencing children and young adults to engineer a global socialist/communist society? Then all the children go "YAY!!"

Well there you go, the other side of it you keep ignoring.
edit on 17-4-2017 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2017 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse
Actually you would be wrong. Black is not a color and white is a combination of them.

But I wasn't using a strawman. I used comparable situations.

Children are taught to honor their flag and have pride in their nation. Just as they are taught in Cuba so what are you complaining about?
edit on 17-4-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)




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