Originality and Intelligence

Everyone knows more than others on certain subjects. Even a 5 year old child knows something their parents don't know Saying the more I learn the less In know is equivalent to the more questions I have. In fact, I know more that isn't true than what is true.

You said: In multiple choice, it is possible to ascertain the right answer by knowing what is wrong.

It may be possible but i have yet to find the truth by just knowing what is wrong. While I like the premise it has not
been proven to me

I know the metaphysical experiences I have had but it is only validated by others.

I may lack your education but I do have my experience and own understanding at 71.

I know that the humanity around me often leaves me feeling discouraged. I wonder why they can't be more like this or that.... why their mind does not work like mine.
Living in a foreign country, I am faced with this daily. I often feel like Alice in Wonderland, where people talk in riddles, what things are, they aren't and nonsense is rampant.

There's just no escaping it ! So I just became fascinated with these silly caucus races and tea parties, realizing we're all on different paths, trying to get to different places and often not trying to get anywhere at all, but rather, become smaller or larger at any moment.

You can be frustrated or you can enjoy the ride.

I like intellectually challenging discourse when I come across it, but I have learned there is some value in emotionally challenging discourse as well.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

I'm not going to name names.

We all know who you mean, though.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
Tell me what you know.

Or should I say, "Tell me what you believe."

Since you neglected to include much of what you complained is missing from threads, I will offer a bit on the above.
You seem to be conflating 'Knowledge' and 'beliefs'.
They are far from the same thing.
The new, critically updated, all inclusive, Universal definition of 'Knowledge';

"'Knowledge' is 'that which is perceived', Here! Now!!"

All inclusive!

That which is perceived by the unique individual Perspective is 'knowledge'.
All we can 'know' is what we perceive, Now! and Now! and Now!!!

'Ignorance' is that which is NOT perceived, at any particular moment, by any particular unique Perspective! Here! Now!

'Belief', on the other hand, is a pathologically symptomatic infection of the ego/thoughts that inhibits cognitive and intellectual ability leading to insanity.
It is not rational, not 'chosen', is 'caught' when resistance is low...

I did notice you mentioned 'originality'.
We do not 'originate' anything, not thought, not anything, we are perceivers.
And if 'intelligence' is the ability to live in harmony with the environment of which we are features, then man is about the only unintelligent creature, since possessed by 'thought/ego'!

When I first learned to scuba dive one of the things I had to get used to is that there was no floor for me to step on.

Initially the sensation produces fear of an unstable situation but if you calm down you get over it.

Philosophy challenges standards while Metaphysics tries to apply those challenges to the human condition.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

isnt it how it supposed to be?

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
"Tell me what you believe."

Belief and doubt go hand in hand. If the truth was realised then both belief and doubt would vanish.
What is 'known' (not believed)? What is it that is 'knowing'?

All that can be known is what is appearing but can what is knowing be known? Does what is knowing ever appear to be known? Can the seer of these words ever be seen?
Francis of Assisi said 'We are looking for what is looking'. What does he mean?

Any thoughts?

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Thank you for the kind words.

What I really and truly think of that thing which I think about most?

I think that I'm not as bad off as I usually perceive myself to be- there is only ever a thin film between the bounds of how my instincts habits and actions define me, and the actualizing of the definition I would like to achieve; and the way to jump from the one to the other is by structuring my personal reality by aligning my thoughts with certain words that shift torwards positive and then adding 'bricks' to that structure by way of gradual effort and action.

As to what I believe? Well. I believe a lot of things: I believe that the biggest enemy any man could ever have is himself, and I believe also that the infamous and nebulous 'they' manipulate society at its roots in order to usher men's baser instincts into guiding them, and also by creating an ever busy frame wherein there is always so much to do that one is always too busy.

I believe that, whether or not one actually accomplishes his endeavor, the effort of it is what labels it as a success or a failure. I believe, further, that while there is a seed of good within everyone, it does not flourish without careful attention, whereas the weeds of the soul are rampant and grow by themselves. 'no good thing ever came easy' in other words.

I now perceive, that all that I have just said may be by manner of my own ego- it is more important for me to do good, be seen as good, than to actually be good. "Is it more important that YOU save the world, or that the world be saved without you?" In other words.

I believe that there is undeniably a force, separate to us, which degrades the quality of all things- this force named Entropy, or Evil, but is also known as Time(Kronos), Madness, Ignorance, and Boredom. That this force acts upon the physical by way of destruction, and upon the mental by way of corruption. I perceive then by this view, that men are evil only to the degree by which they enjoy evil, and/or resist it's efforts.

I also see, that there is a force, which I name Inspiration but is also known as Creativity, or Intuition, but is also what most refer to as God- which makes its dwelling within us and pours through us wondrous things of Life, Truth and Beauty. Further that I am at all times in charge of which of these two forces I turn my ear torwards.

I do wonder, why is it that I, and so many others, time and again turn our ears torwards that degrading force, which forces it's greedy claims upon us and refused to let prisoners go? As opposed to listening to creativity who is always waiting for us and would never force upon us lest we were not already willing?

I do also see that our minds are very cluttered and can be difficult to clean, being metaphysical space and nothing which can be tangibly seen or felt. It is this stage which I am currently at, trying to clean my mess and not really knowing how. *Shrug*

Don't know if any of that is what you were asking for, though.

d. an understanding of what really does and does not have anything to do with truth - which is the entire purpose of philosophy and metaphysics.

Ah truth. Many, including myself, look for threads that support our belief system, that in turn, rewards our ego. But the true wealth of ATS are all the opposing viewpoints that challenge our belief systems. ATS more than not, continually surprizes me in this regard. There are a great many opposing viewpoints to ponder. Thats if, our mind is up to the challenge.

..... "All the world is mad but me and I am starting to have serious doubts of late, about me".

originally posted by: liveandlearn


Everyone knows more than others on certain subjects. Even a 5 year old child knows something their parents don't know Saying the more I learn the less In know is equivalent to the more questions I have. In fact, I know more that isn't true than what is true.

You said: In multiple choice, it is possible to ascertain the right answer by knowing what is wrong.

It may be possible but i have yet to find the truth by just knowing what is wrong. While I like the premise it has not
been proven to me

I know the metaphysical experiences I have had but it is only validated by others.

I may lack your education but I do have my experience and own understanding at 71.

While you danced around saying it, because you realize that it would disrupt your intent, you are basically saying that you know for a fact that you understand that you do not have understanding.

I think you can see that what seems profound doesn't actually add up.

I agree that there are more questions; but there comes a point in time when questions become more of a hindrance than they should be.

You may lack my education, but not your own. Or, as you mentioned at the beginning, maybe the 5 year old knows something you don't.

Thank you, sir, and please forgive any disrespect. I do firmly believe in respecting my elders and their experience as a part of my moral code.

originally posted by: Bluesma
I know that the humanity around me often leaves me feeling discouraged. I wonder why they can't be more like this or that.... why their mind does not work like mine.
Living in a foreign country, I am faced with this daily. I often feel like Alice in Wonderland, where people talk in riddles, what things are, they aren't and nonsense is rampant.

There's just no escaping it ! So I just became fascinated with these silly caucus races and tea parties, realizing we're all on different paths, trying to get to different places and often not trying to get anywhere at all, but rather, become smaller or larger at any moment.

You can be frustrated or you can enjoy the ride.

I like intellectually challenging discourse when I come across it, but I have learned there is some value in emotionally challenging discourse as well.

If you're a thinker, when you mature, you eventually come to the conclusion that there is no greater or more challenging puzzle than emotional discourse!

Thanks for getting the point of the thread.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: TarzanBeta

I'm not going to name names.

We all know who you mean, though.

What?

The purpose of me saying that was to put focus on the thread because I do not believe that only one person is responsible. I believe it is the overarching theme of being completely free of reality that is the problem.

I am a laid back thinker. I don't like someone to structure my thoughts because I already do. So I am not here to impose, but rather to suggest that people might encourage more interest in each other's notions if a minimal amount of effort was applied to their ideas when expressed. Sometimes I get the feeling that not everyone here is here to think rationally outside the box, if that makes sense.

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
Tell me what you know.

Or should I say, "Tell me what you believe."

Since you neglected to include much of what you complained is missing from threads, I will offer a bit on the above.
You seem to be conflating 'Knowledge' and 'beliefs'.
They are far from the same thing.
The new, critically updated, all inclusive, Universal definition of 'Knowledge';

"'Knowledge' is 'that which is perceived', Here! Now!!"

All inclusive!

That which is perceived by the unique individual Perspective is 'knowledge'.
All we can 'know' is what we perceive, Now! and Now! and Now!!!

'Ignorance' is that which is NOT perceived, at any particular moment, by any particular unique Perspective! Here! Now!

'Belief', on the other hand, is a pathologically symptomatic infection of the ego/thoughts that inhibits cognitive and intellectual ability leading to insanity.
It is not rational, not 'chosen', is 'caught' when resistance is low...

I did notice you mentioned 'originality'.
We do not 'originate' anything, not thought, not anything, we are perceivers.
And if 'intelligence' is the ability to live in harmony with the environment of which we are features, then man is about the only unintelligent creature, since possessed by 'thought/ego'!

I'll be honest.

I didn't neglect to mention my complaints. I ordered them in legal fashion. I didn't read any further yet because I want to read more follow-ups first. I figure that whatever say after that won't be logical since you missed a piece of logic looking you right in the eyeballs.

Read the OP again, friend.

99% of people don't have a single original idea in their heads. There's no blame though-- most people don't know how to think for themselves, and thinking for yourself is hard. Its one of the hardest things you can do.

This sub-forum is mostly sh*t because people think philosophy & Metaphysics means they can just come here and start mumbling and raving about whatever New Age bromides and inanities are bouncing around in their head at the moment. I used to put a lot of time and effort into my posts here, but no longer. Its not worth it.

originally posted by: Kashai
When I first learned to scuba dive one of the things I had to get used to is that there was no floor for me to step on.

Initially the sensation produces fear of an unstable situation but if you calm down you get over it.

Philosophy challenges standards while Metaphysics tries to apply those challenges to the human condition.

Indeed. Thanks for your experience and input. There is more philosophy in your mention of scuba diving than there is in many OPs. You express a kind of ideal here to me. You made me think of what going into uncharted territory feels like without imposing how I should feel about that. Then you defined what philosophy and Metaphysics are.

Equally subjective and objective. That is honest.

originally posted by: xbeta
a reply to: TarzanBeta

isnt it how it supposed to be?

If it does not inspire free-thought, but instead is presented as a secret wrapped in the duct-tape of fact... Then, no.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
"Tell me what you believe."

Belief and doubt go hand in hand. If the truth was realised then both belief and doubt would vanish.
What is 'known' (not believed)? What is it that is 'knowing'?

All that can be known is what is appearing but can what is knowing be known? Does what is knowing ever appear to be known? Can the seer of these words ever be seen?
Francis of Assisi said 'We are looking for what is looking'. What does he mean?

Any thoughts?

Philosophy is a determining of belief. It uses facts to discover what to believe and how an entity should conduct itself until some new fact emerges.

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
What I really and truly think of that thing which I think about most?

I think that I'm not as bad off as I usually perceive myself to be- there is only ever a thin film between the bounds of how my instincts habits and actions define me, and the actualizing of the definition I would like to achieve; and the way to jump from the one to the other is by structuring my personal reality by aligning my thoughts with certain words that shift torwards positive and then adding 'bricks' to that structure by way of gradual effort and action.

As to what I believe? Well. I believe a lot of things: I believe that the biggest enemy any man could ever have is himself, and I believe also that the infamous and nebulous 'they' manipulate society at its roots in order to usher men's baser instincts into guiding them, and also by creating an ever busy frame wherein there is always so much to do that one is always too busy.

I believe that, whether or not one actually accomplishes his endeavor, the effort of it is what labels it as a success or a failure. I believe, further, that while there is a seed of good within everyone, it does not flourish without careful attention, whereas the weeds of the soul are rampant and grow by themselves. 'no good thing ever came easy' in other words.

I now perceive, that all that I have just said may be by manner of my own ego- it is more important for me to do good, be seen as good, than to actually be good. "Is it more important that YOU save the world, or that the world be saved without you?" In other words.

I believe that there is undeniably a force, separate to us, which degrades the quality of all things- this force named Entropy, or Evil, but is also known as Time(Kronos), Madness, Ignorance, and Boredom. That this force acts upon the physical by way of destruction, and upon the mental by way of corruption. I perceive then by this view, that men are evil only to the degree by which they enjoy evil, and/or resist it's efforts.

I also see, that there is a force, which I name Inspiration but is also known as Creativity, or Intuition, but is also what most refer to as God- which makes its dwelling within us and pours through us wondrous things of Life, Truth and Beauty. Further that I am at all times in charge of which of these two forces I turn my ear torwards.

I do wonder, why is it that I, and so many others, time and again turn our ears torwards that degrading force, which forces it's greedy claims upon us and refused to let prisoners go? As opposed to listening to creativity who is always waiting for us and would never force upon us lest we were not already willing?

I do also see that our minds are very cluttered and can be difficult to clean, being metaphysical space and nothing which can be tangibly seen or felt. It is this stage which I am currently at, trying to clean my mess and not really knowing how. *Shrug*

Don't know if any of that is what you were asking for, though.

Every single bit of that is exactly what I was asking for.

There are more honest people here than I thought there would be!

I loved every word, Lucid. Thank you very much.

a reply to: Talorc

I used to put a lot of time and effort into my posts here, but no longer. Its not worth it.

Quite frankly that is just as big a reason as to why this forum is $#!+ As the number of people doing bad threads. What I mean to say: it's not just that there are a lot of bad threads, but that there's not that many good ones either. It seems like I'm saying the same thing two different ways there but I'm not.

If you are capable of producing quality threads(which I do applaud OP for) then you should, because one good thread is worth its weight in gold whereas bad ones go for a couple pennies a dozen. A few good threads, a handful? There may still be a bunch of bad threads still, but suddenly there's a whole lot of of $#!+ That's gone.

Heck, if you can call a bad thread bad, then surely there must be a way that it's good, too? Could be good, I mean. Thusly able to perceive the possibility action torwards discovering it is possible. When it could be oncovered, it wouldn't be thread drift at all because it would address the heart of what the discussion was. Bad threads can be rescued.