Proof Of The Flood

it's not that we're mindless followers, we just dont feel like we need to waste time on your ranting.

There can not have been a flood, as seapeople stated theres not that much water in the world, even if you added all the water in the air all the rivers, streams, lakes, and underground water it wouldnt be enough.
As for where the story came from, as with most things its based on a truth, that truth is that a few thousand years ago there was a large scale flood that flooded three mesopatamian cities and most of the mesopatamians farm land, now later on when Judaism was established, some jewish rabbai religous leaders read the historical record of this flood and decided to create a cautionary tale about what would happen if people became corrupt.

Interestingly the only way that huge amount of water could be created, is if an ice comet storm struck earth, all life would of been destroyed before a global flood could even occur, if that happened.

NOTE: It actualy might of been the Sumarians not the mesopatamians, I forget which one it was, but I know it was one of them.

[edit on 2/11/2005 by iori_komei]

The story is too wide spread, and too similar.
It could not have been a local flood.

Listen, apparently all you Christians like to annoy me. because I am a Christian and this guy is seriously looking for some proof, he's asking the questions that the top end Christian scientists beg to have asked of them and you blow the guy off and tell him that he has issues for having an opinion. dear god guys i really wonder how many more people would listen to us if we acted the way Jesus told us in the bible. no offense but please help the guy out. even if he does blow you off it can't hurt to have that information at the ready, can it?

On to the information you politely asked for Seapeople. thank you for the question i've actually asked it of people before when i was an atheist.

a lot of these will be cut from other websites i have visited:
1.
Stories of the Nochian Flood have been found in almost every civilization in the world. Dr. Aaron Smith of the University of Greensboro collected a complete history of the literature on Noah’s Ark. He found 80,000 works in 72 languages about the flood. About 70,000 of them mention the wreckage of the Ark.

for evidenc on how deep it was:
In Mountains all over the world one can find sea shells and other marine fossils. These include the Sierras, the Swiss Alps, the Himalayas and many more. For more on this subject see the following video by Dr. Walter Brown. at www.youtube.com...

for the finer points of the flood:
Frozen mammoths and Mammoth bones are found in large numbers in Siberia, Alaska, and Northern Europe. Some of these were in such good preservation that Eskimos would feed their dogs meat from them when they became exposed due to melting ice and snow: that is, if wolves didn't get their first. For those who want to know more see: www.grahamkendall.net...

More info:
Two American oceanographic vessels pulled from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico several long, slender cores of sediment. Included in them were the shells of tiny one-celled planktonic organisms called foraminifera. While living on the surface, these organisms lock into their shells a chemical record of the temperature and salinity of the water. When they reproduce, the shells are discarded and drop to the bottom. A cross-section of that bottom ... carries a record of climates that may go back more than 100 million years. Every inch of core may represent as much as 1000 years of the earth's past." Emphasis Added

"The cores were analyzed in two separate investigations, by Cesare Emiliani of the University of Miami, and James Kennett of the University of Rhode Island and Nicholas Shackleton of Cambridge University. Both analyses indicated a dramatic change in salinity, providing compelling evidence of a vast flood of fresh water into the Gulf of Mexico. Using radiocarbon, geochemist Jerry Stripp of the University of Miami dated the flood at about 11,600 years ago." To Emiliani, all the questions and arguments are minor beside the single fact that a vast amount of fresh melt water poured into the Gulf of Mexico. 'We know this,' he says, 'because the oxygen isotope ratios of the foraminifera shells show a marked temporary decrease in the salinity of the waters of the Gulf of Mexico. It clearly shows that there was a major period of flooding from 12,000 to 10,000 years ago... There was no question that there was a flood and there is no question that it was a universal flood. Emphasis Added
Emiliani's findings are corroborated by geologists Kennett and Shackleton, who concluded that there was a 'massive inpouring of glacial melt water into the Gulf of Mexico via the Mississippi River system. At the time of maximum inpouring of this water, surface salinities were... reduced by about ten percent."
i'll give you the ice theory in the next post cause i just ran out of room.

I have studied this in great detail
For me there is proof all right, but you need to understand the bible, science and geography.

The Flood Waters.

It has been said that if all the moisture in the atmosphere were suddenly released as rain it would not amount to even a couple of inches if spread over the earth’s surface.

So from what source was this vast deluge of Noah’s day? According to the Genesis account, God said to Noah: “Here I am bringing the deluge [or, “heavenly ocean”; Heb., mab·bul′] of waters upon the earth.” (Ge 6:17,) Describing what happened, the next chapter says: “All the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.” (Ge 7:11) So overwhelming was the Deluge that “all the tall mountains that were under the whole heavens came to be covered.”—Ge 7:19.

Where did this “heavenly ocean” come from? The Genesis account of creation tells how on the second “day” God made an expanse about the earth, and this expanse (called “Heaven”) formed a division between the waters below it, that is, the oceans, and the waters above it. (Ge 1:6-8) The waters suspended above the expanse evidently remained there from the second “day” of creation until the Flood.

This is what the apostle Peter was talking about when he recounted that there “were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God.” Those “heavens” and the waters above and beneath them were the means that God’s word called into operation, and “by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.” (2Pe 3:5, 6)
Various explanations have been offered as to how the water was held aloft until the Flood and as to the processes that resulted in its falling. But these are only speculative. The Bible says simply that God made the expanse with waters above it and that he brought the Deluge. His almighty power could easily accomplish it.

Since, as the Genesis account says, “all the tall mountains” were covered with water, where is all that water now? Evidently it is right here on the earth. It is believed that there was a time when the oceans were smaller and the continents were larger than they are now, as is evidenced by river channels extending far out under the oceans. It should also be noted that scientists have stated that mountains in the past were much lower than at present, and some mountains have even been pushed up from under the seas. As to the present situation, it is said that “there is ten times as much water by volume in the ocean as there is land above sea level. Dump all this land evenly into the sea, and water would cover the entire earth, one and one-half miles deep.” (National Geographic) So, after the flood waters fell, but before the raising of mountains and the lowering of seabeds and before the buildup of polar ice caps, there was more than enough water to cover “all the tall mountains,” as the inspired record says.—Ge 7:19.


Effect on the Earth.

With the Deluge great changes came, for example, the life span of humans dropped very rapidly. Some have suggested that prior to the Flood the waters above the expanse shielded out some of the harmful radiation and that, with the waters gone, cosmic radiation genetically harmful to man increased. However, the Bible is silent on the matter. Incidentally, any change in radiation would have altered the rate of formation of radioactive carbon-14 to such an extent as to invalidate all radiocarbon dates prior to the Flood.
With the sudden opening of the ‘springs of the watery deep’ and “the floodgates of the heavens,” untold billions of tons of water deluged the earth. (Ge 7:11) This may have caused tremendous changes in earth’s surface. The earth’s crust is relatively thin (estimated at between 30 km [20 mi] and 160 km [100 mi] thick), stretched over a rather plastic mass thousands of kilometers in diameter. Hence, under the added weight of the water, there was likely a great shifting in the crust. In time new mountains evidently were thrust upward, old mountains rose to new heights, shallow sea basins were deepened, and new shorelines were established, with the result that now about 70 percent of the surface is covered with water. This shifting in the earth’s crust may account for many geologic phenomena, such as the raising of old coastlines to new heights. It has been estimated by some that water pressures alone were equal to “2 tons per square inch,” sufficient to fossilize fauna and flora quickly.—See The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch.


Flood Legends

Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors.
These folklore accounts of the Deluge agree with some major features of the Biblical account:
(1) a place of refuge for a few survivors.
(2) an otherwise global destruction of life by water.
(3) a seed of mankind preserved.
The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Druids of Britain, the Polynesians, the Eskimos and Greenlanders, the Africans, the Hindus, and the American Indians—all of these have their Flood stories. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319) states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known run as high as about 270. The universality of the flood accounts is usually taken as evidence for the universal destruction of humanity by a flood.


Furthermore Jesus who would have observed these events from heaven when they took place, had this to say when he came to the earth.

Matthew 24:37-39 (New Living Translation)
37 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 38 In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. 39 People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.



70 Percent of the earth is covered with water


























[edit on 27-2-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Seapeople


One important development is the Vail curve, which attempts to define a global historical sea-level curve according to inferences from world-wide stratigraphic patterns.

en.wikipedia.org...

This shows scientific evidence of a GLOBAL sedimentary layer, with dinosaurs on the bottom and all other creatures, including man above this layer.

Gen 1:20: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

This shows that Beasts were created before Man, not sure if they were destroyed before Man was created, it is possible though.

Anyways, just the fact that there is indeed a Sedimentary Layer found all over the Earth in diverse locations, should be food for thought (even for an atheist).

I doubt anyone has read this post in a very long time, however I do want to point out something. The literal translation from hebrew in genisis is "And God shall wipe out the world with a mighty flood".

Now, the "world" in the old testament, only refered to what we now call the middle east, or the "trade world." Often times, people assume that when the bible states "world" the human authors thought global. This is an incorrect assumption, because at the time, their world only consisted of thier immediate surroundings. There is proof that there was a catastrophic flood in the middle east, specifically around the Tigress and Euphrates areas. I know many would simply say that those area's flood every year- to which that would be correct. However geological dating has proved that there was a catastrophic flood that wiped out most of what we know as Iraq. I am sorry if I cannot provide "proof" as I am trying to type all of this from memory when I was a college student majoring in Mediterranian Archeology (no I did not graduate if you ask, and no I will admit that am not very intellectually astute).

I belive in God, and I do consider myself a christian. However, when people mis-read, mis-interpret, or even just flat out lie about the bible, I get very angry. To all those who tried to "prove" there was a global flood, you need to take your concordance and your hebrew to english (or french, or spanish-whatever you primary language is) and re-read the bible, or better yet the Tora as it is an ungarnished verse of your own old testamate. Better still, pick up a Non-Cannocal bible, you know the ones that are translated from original texts without people's personal and political ideologies influencing how the translation arrives. King James Bibles are horrifically mis-translated, along with NIV and American Standard. All one needs to do is pick up a greek or hebrew bible (yes there are hebrew christian bibles) and translate it yourself. You would be suprised what other garbage you have been fed your entire lives by your church leaders.

To the people who tried to prove that there is no global flood. I think you are right. However, before attempting to attack a belief, or as one great historian once said "Strike down the ignorance of Faith", you should first go to the source. Even the author of this post failed to go back and see if the "christian majority" leaders own translations are up to par. To be an accurate scientist, or even just an intellegent person who loves debate, you should make sure the facts you begin with, are the facts in the first place. Just think how many times you could curb this aurgument with just a simple hebrew sentence...

Signed,

K

reply to post by Seapeople


There's a lot of controversy on this matter. As a Christian, I am curious to find out myself too and as a man of science also.

But that would involve climbing the highest mountains around the world, doing archeological work at very high altitudes and unforgiving environments, specifically hunting the following(which I am willing to volunteer for if I don't have to pay for all the expenses and will be compensated):

- Cataloging mountains above 20K feet of antiquity - old enough that they may have pre-dated humans and have risen above sea-level to its present height before arrival of humans.
- Sea animal remains/fossils off these mountains at above 20K altitude. Specifically, species that existed *after* modern humans appeared on the planet.
- Evidence of submersion on these mountains.
- Evidence of sea-water contact with less salinity - due to possibly significant volumes of freshwater mixed with sea water.
- Evidence of marine extinction - decreased salinity may have killed off some marine species, some of these species remains/fossils should be found on the cataloged mountains, and post-dating arrival of modern humans.
- Even harder to find - evidence of ancient human marine technology or simply human technology found on these mountains that were proven not to be human settlements(items which could've floated and settled on these mountains.

If all those above was met, most likely, the Great Flood did occur.

It's hard to say atm who's saying the truth from a non-religious perspective. It's easy to say, there's no evidence or faking evidence. Because if you look above my 'guidelines' plus, the extreme working environment, it shouldn't be a surprise, finding a real evidence if it existed would be very difficult... - it's not enough you find one in one mountain, There should be at least several examples to attain acceptable consistency. So imagine how hard and possibly expensive it would be.

It's not just simply legwork. You're basically putting your life on the line out there, lots of resources, and using all your God-given intelligence to do detective work in extreme conditions. But I'm up for it. A little bit of adventure once in a while is very good!

[edit on 3-12-2009 by ahnggk]

This Atheist reckons that objective thinking ought to tell people that if such a flood took place it could put a fair bit of the known world under water . In which case it could well have been a minor flood by today standards if such an event took place . The known world was pretty small back then heck the full extend of how far Africa extended as a continent was known until much later on in history .

[edit on 3-12-2009 by xpert11]

I am an atheist but I do have proof of a great flood or that all was covered with water at one time, in certain areas.
In Puerto Rico if you go to the highest mountains one of them being 1,328.01 above sea level, you will find sea shells and fish fossils in the rocks, they look the same as the sea shells and fish we have now. This does not prove that god made this great flood happen but it does prove that it did happen. Many different religions claim that their God did this.

Edit: You do not need to go to the highest mountains to find this, you can do a search in Google and find the elevations where marine fossils have been found.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Elieser]