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Proof Of The Flood

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posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Oh, and sorry to double post here, but I would like to point something out.

NOONE HAS EVEN ATTEMPTED TO GIVE ME PROOF!! Afraid? Jake, why don't you go to a real website with real facts that are not completely falsified....research them first instead of believing they are true, then provide the proof you get from that. I'll just sit here and wait. Well, on second thought, I shouldn't bother waiting for the impossible to happen.


gahhh- ignorance, I have given u a logical conclusion of to the earth being flooded- wouldnt most of the earth be covered in water if there was a global flood? oh, wait, it is... read my last post




posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 09:10 PM
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What you are saying yermon, is that your proof of a global flood is the oceans? If you are trying to say that the oceans are an existing flood, you cleary have no idea what we are talking about, and you are misguided as well. Besides, the bible says that the whole world was flooded, not 75%. I can't even believe I just entertained that to the point of referenceing a fact by the way. You are not providing evidence of a global flood, and I would argue that even the most extreme christians in here would agree. Of all the explanations I have heard, yours is by far the most ridiculous.

I just came up with a little research project for me.

For everyone else thumping the bible on this. The only way the tallest mountains could be covered as indicated in the bible, is that the oceans were 30000 feet deeper than they are now. Do you have any idea of the volume of water that is? I doubt you can even conceive that much water. I can tell you that it is more water than all of the oceans, rivers, streams, lakes, ect. hold today. There isn't that much water on the planet to start with, and we are talking that we still have to fill the oceans to sea level.

So tell me, since there was this vast global flood, and you have proven it to all of us with your immense genius... Where did this water go? I am going to calculate roughly how much volume that is......

Here is a rough scientific calculation of the existing water on earth. It is in no way exact, but is about as close as anyone can get and it will give us a good idea.

The total water supply of the world is 326 million cubic miles (a cubic mile is an imaginary cube (a square box) measuring one mile on each side). A cubic mile of water equals more than one trillion gallons.

About 3,100 cubic miles of water, mostly in the form of water vapor, is in the atmosphere at any one time. If it all fell as precipitation at once, the Earth would be covered with only about 1 inch of water.

Reference this site to see where I came up with that info.

ga.water.usgs.gov...

Onto my own calculations.

General information:

Formula for sphere volume: (4/3) X PI X (Radious^3)

Now, due some diligent science work, we know that the diameter of the earth is pretty close to 7928 miles. This equates to about 41,859,840 feet. I am using feet because of a measurement used in the bible. A cubit. The bible states the water rose above the tallest mountains 15 cubits, or approximately 22.5 feet. The tallest Mountain on earth is approximately 29,028 feet tall. Ok, that should give us what we will need I believe.

What I am going to do is find a rough volume of the earth. Then I am going to calculate the earths volume including the 29,028 feet for the tallest mountain and 22.5 feet additional for the statement in the bible. I will then subtract the first from the second to generate the volume of water needed to flood the earth to this extent. This is going ot be a big freeking number by the way.

First we need the earths approximate volume.. We will use sea level as the radius point. (Radius 20,929,920 feet) Using the calculation above (and someone, please check my math), the volume of the earth is approximately:

38,405,403,287,584,143,468,134.4 cubic feet. I can't even say that number by the way.

Now, the volume of the earth with the mountains and the 22.5 feet using the formula above is approximately (New radius is 20,958,970.5 feet):


38,564,580,056,171,043,531,146.732 cubic feet.

That wasn't so bad actually. The difference between the two is:

159,176,768,586,900,063,012.331 cubic feet. This is still a freeking HUMONGOUS NUMBER!

Ok, if my calculations are correct, that leaves us with a grand total of:

5709680920960 cubic miles of water NEEDED to cover the mountains.

This is about 17,514 times the amount of water known to exist on earth. Can someone please tell me where in Gods Creation all that freeking water could have possibly gone????????? 17514 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF EXISTING WATER ON EARTH!!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone understand this? Ok, so where is Ninki with her criticisms of the accuracy of science. Tell me, where are my numbers inaccurate??? How could there possibly be proof of something so ridiculously stupid???


Now, I did the math on my own. I created this little project on my own while writing this post. You see, I, unlike christians, think everything through. Even if I come to the wrong conclusion, I can still say I thought about it. Otherwise I would be just like a christian, and not question anything I am told. Are there any christians out there who can say the same? Anyone still want to call me illogical? Go do your own research, and tell me how the heck that water could have disapeared.

Now I just thought of something else.....I wonder how much gravity that much water would add to the earth, and what effects something like that might have on, lets start with the moon...next post.

P.S. I didnt have a scientific calculator with me, so I used the one in windows. When I entered 4/3, I entered 1.3333 instead of the formula. I also entered 3.1416 instead of the full PI. This may make your check calculations vary slightly from mine.



[edit on 2/8/2005 by Seapeople]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 03:55 AM
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lol, good effort seapeople, i cant stop laughing about your results
17 514x.... #


[edit on 12/17/2004 by cheeser]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Just to show that I am not a liar, you did something in a previous thread that I often call christians out on but they deny. You made something up. Well, not exactly. I have little faith in a devoted christians ability to think for themselves, so someone made something up and you repeated it.



Tell me, where the bible does it say, after the flood, animal life spans decreased. Yes it speaks that way of humans, but where does it mention animals? For you to assume that, means that you are trying to fill gaps in the bible with words that were not in the bible, which by the way is strictly forbidden:

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. (Rev 22:18,19)

Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Lest He reprove you, and you be proved a liar. (Pr 30:5,6)

Note my favorite part about being proven a liar......nice touch IMO. It seams like they were really trying to stop people from doing exactly what you just did now doesnt it....(I can't wait to hear you make something up to say no).

[edit on 2/3/2005 by Seapeople]



Excuse me, but I can think for myself, and I am a Christian! You have professed to know so much about the bible, and its 'word' then why are you asking for proof?You said in your own words, well in God's words, rather, look down!

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. (Rev 22:18,19)

You are taking the Flood away ,you question it, so, I they will be taken from you as you said in.. rev 22:18,19 ...so then it will be your part in the tree of life and the Holy City that will be non existant, since you need proof! Do you also need proof that God exists? You can't prove he is and you can't prove he doesn't? You can't prove to anyone seapeople that God exists or that he doesn't, it is something that is inside you, in your heart, in your being, and it is something you feel and it is faith. You cannot see love, but it is there, you cannot explain why someon would kill a baby, but it happes, all the time so why do you think you should know the answer to the flood qustion?


Oh and about your statement about "Nobody has given me proof? Afraid? Well, all I have to say, is you can ask God, or, maybe you think he is afraid ?
Your sarcasm about a liar, is such a nice touch, it reflects the type of person you are
Last post to you seapeople and as I have never said this to anyone here and never will, again, but you make me sick with your sarcasm!

[edit on 9-2-2005 by realorritt]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:43 AM
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well actually, a person that would kill a baby probably suffers from obvious phycological reasons. The person is obviousally not in a stereotypical *right* state of mind and suffers from a mental disorder. I think this is quite clear.


[edit on 12/17/2004 by cheeser]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 08:08 AM
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Realoritt,

You continuously insult me. 5,709,680,920,960 cubic miles of water supposedly vanished from your view. Please tell me where it went before you insult me. Please tell me that you at least understand the process I went though to come to that number. I can guarantee, that you are not capable of rationalizing to this level, and I usd 8th grade math to figure it out. It is a crying shame that people like you blatantly refuse to accept reality because you are afraid of life. There is no evidence anywhere of a flood of this nature. To be honest, it is IMPOSSIBLE. There is NO POSSIBILITY of this much mass disapearing from earth. That water, was never, ever here. It is just a result of those writing the bible never taking into account that we would someday be able to figure that out. I swear to you, volume formulas like that are 8th grade math. 13 year olds are expected to know this stuff....and you don't. That speaks worlds for your IQ.

Cheeser, did you check my math at all? Gravity may be a little harder, but I am going to figure that one out too. I want to see how long it would take the earth and moon to colide if that much water was present on earth.

Edit: Gravity is a lot harder. This is going to take a while. I am betting now, that when I am complete, I will find that it is a mathematical impossibilty for the moon and earth not to have colided if the earth was covered with this much water for even a day. I don't know yet and could be wrong, but that is my hypothesis. I was right on my last hypothesis.

[edit on 2/9/2005 by Seapeople]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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the water dont need to be 30,000 feet high. doubtful Everest existed before the flood. ok, most of the earth is covered in water, and secondly, no written down in stone (figuratively) civiliation has been recorded past the time in the Bible which claims when the flood was. why dont u try looking up the dimensions of the ark in the Bible adn see if it could stand up to a global flood. obviously, the Titanic couldnt make it thru, why dont u check the dimensions out for one.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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Seapeople
It seems like all you want to do is rant.

Like I said before. I will face you down, in a one on one debate, in the style of ABS, anytime.
I can hold up my part.
Its been my experience that to do it in any other fasion on boards like this, will be pointless....never ending.
And you have to do it OVER and OVER again for the next 'seapeople' to come along. Very tiresome.

Specificly
Long ages are not scientific fact
Evolution is not fact
The current condition of the earth supports the bible vs uniformitarianism/gradualism

Maybe you can talk to the leadership here and arrange it.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Specificly
Long ages are not scientific fact
Evolution is not fact
The current condition of the earth supports the bible vs uniformitarianism/gradualism


Why don't you just adress a couple points here and we'll see if setting up a debate is even warranted?

You say the current condition of the Earth supports the Biblical accounts?

I've yet to see even a remotely satisifactory young age response to the speed of light contradictions as to how long the universe has existed (at a minimum), much less the even more problematic existence of observably gradual organic and coral reefs on Earth that took a minimum of 100's of thousand of years in some cases of micro-organism fossils slowly depositing several thousand feet thick.

Thoughts?

And I thought this was about the flood anyway? There's scientific proof of a global flood killing all but one man's family and just the animals he had aboard an ark in just the last few thousand years? I'd like to see that.

Once you prove that, you win. Nothing to debate.

If on the other hand you'd like to say you really have no idea how old the earth is or if there ever was a global flood, but it just chaps you to no end that scientists think they're so cool with their snazzy pocket protectors and contrary theories and you just like to argue to hear yourself talk, fine.

I can relate to that.

But you're not in any position here to disprove contrary scientific evidence (or theory for that matter) or come even close to proving the Bible by a long shot no matter what .wav files on the Internet you've seen. If you could, I think I'd have seen you of Fox News.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Seapeople
It seems like all you want to do is rant.

Like I said before. I will face you down, in a one on one debate, in the style of ABS, anytime.
I can hold up my part.
Its been my experience that to do it in any other fasion on boards like this, will be pointless....never ending.
And you have to do it OVER and OVER again for the next 'seapeople' to come along. Very tiresome.

Specificly
Long ages are not scientific fact
Evolution is not fact
The current condition of the earth supports the bible vs uniformitarianism/gradualism

Maybe you can talk to the leadership here and arrange it.


What in the world are you talking about...typical christian nonsense is what. Please note that I am talking about the "great flood" and not evolution. It is funny how you didn't even address what I was talking about. Tell me "oh wise jake", when was the last time you took the time to actually figure something out, and do the legwork on your own? Tell me, where in my math above did I go wrong? Since I am just ranting, I must have been spewing nonsense right? So what in that mathematical explanation that I gave you was wrong? Please address?? I can't wait to hear how you explain to all of us that 2+2 does not equal four, and that our formulas for figuring volume are wrong as well as our logic.

I am still in the process of figuring out the added gravitational pull this water would have created, and the effect it would have had on the moon. Anyone want to take a poll on whether the moon would have crashed into the earth or not? I know what I'll be betting on. And it wont be on hearing anything besides a hypocritical, mindless christian, who refuses to even address a possibility that he is wrong.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 09:36 PM
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In response to yermon,

Ok, to start this off, the bible says that the water rose 15 cubits (22.5 feet) above the tallest mountains. One thing that is for sure, a mountain takes a heck of a lot longer to form than 4000 years. Mt. Everest was most certainly on earth at near its present height even 6000 years ago. So yes, according to the bible, it would have had to rise that far.

You did ask me a good question though, regarding the arks dimensions.

Genesis 6:15 "The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. "

A cubit is approximately 1.5 feet. So in essence the dimensions of the ark were about 450 feet by 75 feet with a height of 45 feet.

Back onto track. The largest wooden ship ever recorded as being built (with the exception of the ark of course) is the U.S.S. Wyoming. It was 329 feet in length. It did however require extensive iron support. It needed the Iron support because a ship of that size would be subjected to enormous amounts of stress. There is a picture of it on the following link.

www.afn.org...

Now just for some general info, the first site I found was here:

home.inu.net...

If you read far enough into it, you will find this statement:

"It required diagonal iron strapping for support and leaked so badly that it had to be pumped constantly. It was declared unseaworthy and too long for wood construction. Yet the ark was deemed to be over 100 feet longer."

Now, it is true that the ship was equipped with diagonal iron braces. However, it was never declared unseaworthy as far as any credible sources tell me. In fact, it did sink, on a mission that it was cleared to go on. I just wanted to through that in there to prove to people like jake that I DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING< EVEN THINGS TAHT I AGREE WITH AT FACE VALUE AND I RESEARCH EVERYTHING UNLIKE HIM.

Next Information in Genesis.
7:11 - In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
7:17 - And the flood was forty days upon the earth;
7:24 - And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
8:3 - And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

It is unclear how long the flood really was, though it is my belief that the intent of this is to say, the waters rose for forty days, and receeded at 150 days. If you have a problem with that, I'll take arguments. Now, it also says in a round about way that on the 150th day, noahs ark came to rest on top of Mt. Ararat. ( I won't even get into the problem of a totaly receeded flood and landing on top of a mountian at the same time).

So, next issue is what was needed on the ark.

Animals and humans: Noah and his family, 2 of every animal living on land, and seven of every clean animal on land. Now the creationism doctrine eliminates the possiblity for evolution, so basicall all of the animals alive today would need to be present on the ark.

Food supply: Meats in the form of live animals and already butchered. Produce from a variety of plants. Not just for mamals, but for insects too. This food would have to be well contained and preserved somehow.

Tools: Undertaking the job of cleaning the crap up from every known living creature everyday is impossible in my mind, but for now I will pretend it is not...(I should go into haw much poop each animal would have averaged a day.....) Cleaning tools, tools for killing animals, tools for repairing the ark, tools eat, buckets for removing water ect.

A seperate area for fire would be needed.

I am sure I missed a lot.

Tell me yermon, in all honesty, do you feel that all that stuff could have fit on an ark the size of a small ship of today? I don't. If you truly do, I will take the time to calculate roughly how much space all of these items would have taken.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:20 AM
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i checked out your calculations just then and they look fine to me.
I;m not totally sure what would happen to the moon with the added gravity to earth.
No1 yet has directly answer where all this water went to after the flood disappeared. the only way i could see this happening is by it excaping into space, but i see this happenings impossible beause the earths gravity would keep it form escaping.
If there was this flood with these huge amounts of water, wouldnt this of created enormous amounts of pressure to the gound/soil, therefore creation somesort of compressed layer of soil?
and what happen to the plants? didnt Noah only put the animals onto the arch? how did all these diverse complex plants survive?



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 06:42 AM
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You may be correct cheeser. I didn't think of it that way. I figured the added pressure would have probably killed most ground vegetation, or had some adverse affect, but I didn't think of how it compress the ground. It is a good point though. I bet I could calculate that. I swear to you, this gravity thing is going to keep me occupied for a few days. I have the equasions right in front of me, and I think I have all the info needed, but I need to be sure I am correct in how I figure this.

Also, you are correct about something else. There are a few people on this board who attack me regularly. They have somewhat spoken up in here as expected, but none have directly addressed my calculations or my questions at all. Interesting....



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 02:47 PM
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Science has confirmed the account of Genesis 1
The earth was a single pangea continent.

Why do you assume those mountains were there as they are now?

Check out the Hydroplate theory. If you would start looking at things from a neutral point, you might start to see



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Science has confirmed the account of Genesis 1
The earth was a single pangea continent.

Those same scientists also confirmed that pangea existed apx 225 million years ago.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Science has confirmed the account of Genesis 1
The earth was a single pangea continent.

Why do you assume those mountains were there as they are now?

Check out the Hydroplate theory. If you would start looking at things from a neutral point, you might start to see


See what??? Tell me jake, do you look at things from a neutral point? What kind of hypocrit are you? Oh, the typical christian kind.

Again, see what? See that you are still completely oblivious to reality? Did you know that we can measure the speed of tectonic plates as well as the speed of the moving continents? Why don't you look at something from a "neutral point" and research on your own without some christian website as to how long it would necessarily take for the continents to have been one. Also, while you are there, do some research into how long it takes mountains to form. Go ahead, prove yourself wrong, and then come back here with what some pastor told you. Tell us how you actually werent proven wrong.

I gues though, I am still repeating fantasy.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople

Now continuing to the next false statement. Goron, where in the freeking wolrd is there evidence of a 30000 feet deep flood all over the globe???? SHOW ME THIS EVIDENCE THAT YOU CLAIM TO HAVE!!!

[edit on 2/8/2005 by Seapeople]


well, well, isn't someone being touchy? As of now, there is no solid proof that 100% confirms the existance of the flood. There is however, evidence that supports the event of the flood, so that's where faith comes in. That's the beauty of it, faith. You don't really believe that we don't think for ourselves do you? We're not all sheep you know.

There's also some speculation that the ark is up on a mountain in russia or turkey or something, but they havent been able to get up there. they have photos, just google "noah's ark", i'm sure you'll find the site.

www.wsu.edu...

this is the gilgamesh epic translated. It's not evidence, but it's a non-biblical account of the flood.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:21 PM
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Oh, and again....

Are you scared Jake? You still have yet to adress my equasions above. Tell me exactly how science was wrong up there, and how all that water was once here. I am sure everyone on this thread wants to know. Why have you avoided it? Is it because you know you will have to admit you are wrong, and that story is impossible? I think so, and so does everyone else in here. Get some courage, prove me wrong. Prove that those mountains were not that tall, and prove to me how tall they actually were (if you can prove they werent that tall, there must be a reason indicating why not. That reason also would provide a general height condition) Bring us your calculations. Show me how tall the mountains were, and I will recalculate. Stop attacking and provide at least a shred of credible information which you have yet to do....at all, in any of my posts, or any posts I have seen you write in. Give us something to make us at least think you might have a chance at being rational.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 07:20 AM
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newport.pmel.noaa.gov...


The pressure increases about one atmosphere for every 10 meters of water depth. At a depth of 5,000 meters the pressure will be approximately 500 atmospheres or 500 times greater than the pressure at sea level. That's a lot of pressure.


www.valdosta.edu...


At any location on the Earth's surface, air pressure is described as the weight per unit area of a column of air at a given location. The average air pressure at sea level is about 1 kg per square cm (14.7 lbs per square inch).


The air pressure can change form location to location depending on the certain conditions but ill just stick by the adverage which is about 1kg per square cm.
so at 5,000m below sea level, the pressure would be approx 500 times that of the air pressure. That gives us... 500kg's of pressure for every CENTERMETRE square. i would assume this would kill alot of vegetaton, and also take into mind that *this world wide flood* was supposivedly deeper than 5,000m.
seapeople - i might be wrong, but i would of thought that if this great flood did occur this great amount of added pressure would of caused a large compression of soil at the surface of the earth, compared to it at the normal 1kg of air pressure. geologists would of found a *compacted*(im not sure to what degree) layer of soil, while they where doing the things they do. But i havnt heard this to be the case





and just is anyoneis interested... i researched and found that sunlight reaches depths of close to 20,000 feet(no more) in todays deep oceans



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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Cheeser, you are probably correct in your thoughts of compacted earth. That is a LOT of weight. I am not sure exactly how it would effect the soil, but it would clearly have some sort of effect. There is simply no way that we would have any questions if something like this happened.

I have a confession. In doing my gravity stuff, I have found a significant error in my original water calculations. I had a feeling it wouldn't go without a hitch. The actual cubic miles it would take to create the flood is closer to 1.5 billion cubic miles. Now, that is still about 5 times as much water that is known to exist on earth. But much different than the laughable 17 thousand times. Even at this number though, there is still well over 1.5 billion trillion gallons of water missing from earth.

In relation to cheesers calculations regarding air vapor, and staments in the bible regarding rain, I have also come up with another calculation.

The atmosphere contains approximately 3011 cubic miles of water at any given time. Just imagine for a second, that all of the earth was relatively flat, and no mountains existed. Just at that measure, the bible states that the water rose 15 cubits, or 22.5 feet. At the radius of the earth, plus 22.5 feet, it would take 8,414,484 million cubic miles of water. That is 2795 times the amount of water that existis in the atmosphere today. As a mater of fact, it is physically impossible to saturate the air at that level. The water could not have possibly come from rain as stated in the bible. It is impossible.

Still working on gravity calculations. Please not that I made a huge mistake earlier, and not one of those christians who are out to prove me wrong caught it. And that is simply because they do not research or look into anything..ever. They only go by what they are told. They are mindless followers.

Edit: All of the numbers provided in my first calculation post are correct with the exception of the 17500 times number. My mistake was so simple and avoidable it makes me look terrible. I divided the total cubic feet by square miles rather than cubic miles. My sincere apologies. At least though, I found it.

[edit on 2/11/2005 by Seapeople]




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