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A tough question for chemtrail believers.

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posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: ChipForBrains

Yes, I do agree. I have also been looking into this for a while now, so I thought I would share some of what I learned along the way. Sorry if it came out as offensive, it's just information.

The end result is the planes fly at the altitude they do for economic reasons. If they flew lower, they would burn more fuel, and cause more pollution than they already do, but doing as they do, tends to create contrails more often, so that impact needs to be studied and understood. Given the options, I'd vote for a perfect blue sky every day, but that just isn't a reality.

again, sorry for the confusion.




posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Don't be, it was probably mostly due to my interpretation.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: ChipForBrains
a reply to: network dude

It came across as being somewhat dismissive, or downplaying the point that I made by saying that they already have been looking at this "for a while now".

Maybe I misinterpreted.

Do you agree with what I posted?



Yes. Contrails, especially persistent contrails that last for hours and spread out like a cirrus cloud, do block sunlight by creating more cloud cover. This effect has been something that atmospheric scientists have been studying since the birth of high-altitude flight.

I'm not sure what can be done to reduce this, except by limiting the amount of air traffic at the heights that most persistent contrails form -- but that would be radical, since it would have a huge effect on the airline industry.

While it does reduce sunlight, the jury is still out as to if these persistent spreading contrails contribute to global warming by creating a cover of clouds that holds in the heat of the day, or reduce global warming by reducing the amount of sun radiation that warms up the air at ground level and heats the ground ...or do they even have any appreciable effect at all.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 10:00 AM
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So I guess that if "chemtrailers" believe that chemtrails are altering the climate, their logic is sound, wether it is "chemtrails" or just a "normal" result of air traffic.

If they believe it is all about spraying poison to kill of the population, the logic is less sound.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 10:11 AM
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I couldn't stomach reading the whole thread but OP, the picture you are posting doesn't show anything but clouds.

I hate to break it to you but they come in all kinds of weird shapes and sizes. I just put in 'Striated Clouds' in google and got hundreds of pictures with clouds that would really rattle your bones because they look much worse than those you posted.
Yet that's all they are, clouds.

In the olden days, before planes, people knew how strange cloud formations could be.
In a way, they knew more than some people today.
Even I know [if I had looked at that sky from the photo]; that the biggest worry looking at a sky like that would have been a change of weather.
Whenever I see clouds like that, I know the sunny days are over mate.

It scares me. It really does, how people who have more info on their hands than we ever had back then, don't see the woods for the trees.

Clouds. Wow. They don't all look like fluffy sheep. Must be chemtrails.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: Hecate666




In the olden days, before planes, people knew how strange cloud formations could be.


Even mainstream science agrees that airplanes are altering the skies in a pretty dramatic ways. It is more scary that you can act like there is not a huge difference with the days of old.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: ChipForBrains
So I guess that if "chemtrailers" believe that chemtrails are altering the climate, their logic is sound, wether it is "chemtrails" or just a "normal" result of air traffic.

If they believe it is all about spraying poison to kill of the population, the logic is less sound.


Well, that's been the whole gist of the chemtrail versus contrail argument.

The chemtrail people claim that those trails are NOT a normal result of a jet flying at airline cruising altitudes, and that if a trail persists, than it is not a contrail, but rather a spray of "stuff" intentionally but there for intentional (and some claim evil) purposes.

The contrail people say that contrails, even persistent contrails that can last for hours and spread out into a cloud, ARE a normal result of jets flying at airline cruising altitudes.

But no...the great majority of the people who say that those trails are simply normal contrails have never argued that contrails don't have any effect on sunlight and weather (and maybe climate).


edit on 2017/4/14 by Box of Rain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: Box of Rain

My point is that it doesn't really matter wether you think it is a "chemtrail" altering the skies, or "normal" contrails. Fact remains that the sky is being altered.

Chances are that this fact is being associated with the more unbelievable chemtrail claims, and therefore easily dismissed.

"It's just a contrail"

Yeah, but it is still fogging up our skies.
edit on 14-4-2017 by ChipForBrains because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: ChipForBrains
a reply to: Box of Rain

My point is that it doesn't really matter wether you think it is a "chemtrail" altering the skies, or "normal" contrails. Fact remains that the sky is being altered.

Chances are that this fact is being associated with the more unbelievable chemtrail claims, and therefore easily dismissed.

"It's just a contrail"

Yeah, but it is still fogging up our skies.


OK, but that is nothing really new, and as others have pointed out, that is a problem that is being studied to determine whether or not the reduction in sunlight is GOOD for reducing global warming, or if the extra cloud cover is BAD and causes and increase in global warming because the contrail clouds hold the heat in, or if it affects climate at all.

But the argument has never been "do those white trails behind planes block sunlight or not", because it is obvious to both sides that it does. No, the argument has always been, "are those white trails intentionally-sprayed chemicals that are sprayed to cause an effect on humans?" or "are those white trails contrails?".

The conspriracists' idea that the trails are sprayed as an intentional geoengineering project is pretty recent. Before these latest claims that contrails are really a secret geoengineering project, most "chemtrail conspiracies" centered on the trails being poisons meant to intentionally harm humans (population control , etc.)

Honestly, I think the people who feel that contrails are really chemtrails being purposely sprayed for specific evil purposes are missing the point....that point being that normal contrails can reduce sunlight.

The chemtrail believers, by claiming that the trails are aluminum and barium that are intentionally sprayed by the evil evil government and the mysterious "TPTB" to kill people and ease the problem of overpopulation, are only detracting from the real studies of how normal contrails may or may not affect climate (and not just weather, but climate -- those are two different things).


edit on 2017/4/14 by Box of Rain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 10:48 AM
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a reply to: Box of Rain




The chemtrail believers, by claiming that the trails are aluminum and barium that are intentionally sprayed by the evil evil government and the mysterious "TPTB" to kill people and ease the problem of overpopulation, are only detracting from the real studies of how normal contrails may or may not affect climate (and not just weather, but climate -- those are two different things).


That is exactly what I was saying.

The focus is on the debate "chemtrail or not", when it is not really relevant. Our skies are being fogged up.
edit on 14-4-2017 by ChipForBrains because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 01:02 PM
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I'm going to believe my own lying eyes, thank you very much.

But this summer, when I see those darn "chemtrails" criss-crossing my hot and dry desert sky, I will think of you



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

It doesn't matter if it's hot and dry where you are. The upper atmosphere is still going to be cold and moist.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: ChipForBrains

the big argument is that the airlines can control when they release those lines in the sky and when they don't. It's not optional, it depends on conditions where they fly. So even if we get really mad and make signs and protest, they planes will still leave trails when the conditions are favorable.

And for Boadicea, your belief is not required for the facts to be the facts. But should you ever decide to look into this more than just what you see and want to believe, I do suggest you contact your local news weatherperson and ask. They can usually be approached by Facebook or some other social media platform, and they have the knowledge needed. (but it's likely they are 'in on it', so there is that.)

And please, take a hot air balloon ride wearing only shorts and a t-shirt. When you get to 15,000 feet, you will at least be able to think warm thoughts as you look down at your hot dry desert.
www.engineeringtoolbox.com...

knowledge is power.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
I'm going to believe my own lying eyes, thank you very much.

But this summer, when I see those darn "chemtrails" criss-crossing my hot and dry desert sky, I will think of you


Why do chemtrail believers make this mistake? Even if it is a 100 degrees on the ground where you live what do you think the temperature could be 6 or 7 miles above you? Add in the combination of cold temperatures and humidity and yes you can have horizon to horizon persistent contrails 6 miles plus above your desert location that is baking in extreme heat.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Boadicea

It doesn't matter if it's hot and dry where you are. The upper atmosphere is still going to be cold and moist.


And the level of cold and moisture -- and the proportions thereof -- will vary by region, climate and weather/season. For example, the air over an ocean (including the troposphere) will be much wetter and cooler than the air over the desert (including the troposphere).

NASA -- FAQs



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: tommyjo

NASA --FAQs

That's why.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Of course it will, but that doesn't mean that the air over the desert is going to be dry, regardless of what it's doing at ground level. I watch conditions change constantly over the desert and leave long trails one day, short trails the next, and almost none the third day.

The atmosphere is dynamic, and changes all the time. There is no reason that you can't have long trails that expand into a cloud layer over the desert, with no nefarious cause. You have clouds over the desert, so why can't you have contrails do the same?



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
You have clouds over the desert, so why can't you have contrails do the same?


pretty much all that needs to be said on this topic.



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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Double post -- deleted
edit on 14-4-2017 by Boadicea because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2017 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: tommyjo

NASA --FAQs

That's why.



Q: Is it possible to observe contrails as indicators of changing weather? A: If a contrail is persistent or persistent spreading, then the upper atmosphere contains large amounts of moisture. If a contrail is short-lived, then the upper atmosphere is relatively dry. This was used by sailors and can be used today to somewhat predict the weather. Short-lived contrails may indicate fair weather, and persistent contrails may indicate an approaching change in the weather or precipitation. The weather signal is somewhat analogous to that of natural cirrus clouds.



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