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Brief Update of Ongoing Supreme Court Case in Russia (concerning Jehovah's Witnesses)

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posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 07:09 PM
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Some here may have read my previous thread concerning a breaking news story on Fox News World. And a rehash of the Supreme Court case trying Jehovah's Witnesses as extremist for being non-violent and proselytizing their faith.

The case still is ongoing. So it appears the Fox News report was false. I apologize and will not be so fast to believe that news source again. As should be.

As the case was put into recess last week this press release was given:


NEW YORK—The third day of the hearing before the Russian Supreme Court has concluded, and the Court has declared a recess until Wednesday, April 12, 2017, at 10:00 a.m. During today’s proceedings, the Court heard the testimony of four of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who presented key arguments against the Ministry of Justice’s claim to liquidate the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses and ban their activities.

The judge directed multiple questions toward the Ministry of Justice, asking them to produce evidence regarding their accusations that Jehovah’s Witnesses are extremists and distribute extremist literature. The Ministry of Justice was unable to do so. Vasiliy Kalin, a member of the presiding committee for the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia, stated while addressing the Court: “I want to remind the Ministry of Justice that your request to ban Jehovah’s Witnesses would hurt the very people who wish you a peaceful, happy life.”

Source

From notes I've received in more detail about this, the lawyers for the Witnesses presented this case as political persecution which go against the UN human rights declaration as well as the OSCE.

I am translating this information from the language given to me but I don't think I am communicating anything inaccurately.

The government is asking to liquidate the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, but they had never been permitted to register in the communities as witnesses, the judge asked perplexed, how can they ban something that doesn't exist?

The Bethel home (the official branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia) has never been charged of any crime, and is separate from the rest of the congregations. So why does the government want to close it?

The prosecutors (the government) insists that every congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses put in danger the rights of the citizens.

The judge asks what rights are being endangered?

The government states that the JWs do not allow medical treatment. There is a murmur of disapproval at the stupid accusation by the prosecutor representing the government among all in attendance.

The judge asks for proof of this accusation.

The government does not wish to comply and give proof.

The judge is surprised and says that it is weird to raise such an accusation without proof, because the Jehovah's Witnesses have been put under scrutiny by the government for years.

The prosecutors say the JWs are a threat to public security.

The judge asks for proof. But none is given.

The judge asks, if the JWs are discovered together praying could they be detained? The government says: yes.

The judge asks if the JWs have been added to the official list of terrorists. The prosecutor for the government says he has not seen such a list.


The lawyers for the JWs began asking questions of the government:

Can the government prove, that because of the publications of the JWs, someone has committed a crime?

The government says it has no proof.

The lawyers ask the government what human rights violations have the JWs committed. The government has no answer.


The lawyers ask the government if there is evidence that the branch office in Russia has taken measures so that the congregations do not obey the governmental officials.

There is no answer.


The lawyers ask the government that the publications they want to ban is only .01% of all of the publications.

The Minister of Justice answers that he did not know.


The lawyers ask if the government knows that for 2 years no publications of the JWs have entered Russia. The lawyer of the prosecutor said they did not know this.

The lawyers follow up asking, why, then, has the government waited until 2017 to ban the activity of Jehovah's Witnesses accusing the branch office of spreading extremist publications?


The judge asks the government if they would know if an extremist publication entered into the country in the future.

The government answers that there is only a list of 34 publications.


The lawyers ask the government if they are accusing the global organization of Jehovah's Witnesses? Isn't their jurisdiction personal?

The government replies they are interested in the religious connection.


Why then are they persecuting small communities and not charging the global organization of Jehovah's Witnesses? The Ministry of Justice has to know without a doubt that there is nothing illegal about the organizational structure in Russia.

The lawyers ask how it is possible that the Ministry of Justice wants to ban the activity of the JWs but not ban the JWs? Is this not weird, given the fact they consider Jehovah's Witnesses as terrorists?

The government is asked no foreigners have raised the accusation that JWs are terrorists anywhere else.

The lawyer of the government did not know this.


Why is the government only using negative informants, and not the many many many positive ones by many foreigners and judges around the world?

There is no answer


The government is asked how is it possible that the BIBLE is in the list of extremist publications?

There is no answer.




Finally a report for today's hearings. After a day of hearings, there has been a recess for another week:

APRIL 12, 2017
RUSSIA

Further Arguments Presented on Day Four of Russian Supreme Court Case


NEW YORK—With a large number of observers in attendance, the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation continued into its fourth day of hearings, considering a claim from the Ministry of Justice to liquidate the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia. The Court announced a recess late in the afternoon, and the hearing will resume on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, at 10:00 a.m.

Attorneys for Jehovah’s Witnesses opened with arguments in defense of the Administrative Center, followed by a cross-examination from attorneys representing the Ministry of Justice. Reacting to evidence presented by the defense, the judge requested the Ministry of Justice to identify the specific legal basis for liquidating Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Administrative Center. The attorneys for the Ministry of Justice were unable to provide a response to the judge’s request and other related questions. The day’s proceedings concluded after hearing testimony from witnesses for both parties.

Next week, the court is expected to begin their review of the case materials.

Source
edit on 12-4-2017 by RobertConrad because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 07:24 PM
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a reply to: RobertConrad

So it was recessed until 10am yesterday? Bit late, aren't you?

Also, you forgot a something that happened today.

Jehovah’s Witnesses former members tell court they were subjected to total control

MOSCOW, April 12. /TASS/. Russia’s Supreme Court has heard the testimony of four former members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses who said they had been subjected to ‘total control’ in that religious organization, with no possibility to receive higher education or start a family, TASS reports from the courtroom.
Specifically, witness Natalia Koretskaya from St. Petersburg told the court she had been a member of that organization from 1995 to 2009 and had realized over this period that the organization’s members "were living under full and total control of the [Jehovah’s Witnesses] Administrative Center."
"The heads of the Jehovah’s Witnesses formally watch canonical compliance with the norms but in real fact the talk is about total control of an individual’s personal life - his intimate life, education and work," witness Koretskaya said.
In response to the court’s request to give the facts of such control, Koretskaya said she had been expelled from the religious organization and its members had been banned to communicate with her after she had started close but officially unregistered relationship with a man.


That seems a bit.....what's the word......extremist and cultist to totally control someone against their will.
edit on 1242017 by TerryDon79 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 07:33 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

Also, the "observers" weren't what you think they were. It was a stunt gone wrong by tv and media stations.

Russia’s Phony Jehovah’s Witnesses


But the crowd hadn't come to fight for Russia's religious freedom. Most of the people lined up were students from Moscow State Linguistic University, and they'd been promised a field trip, where they expected to learn about the Russian court system, sitting in on a real trial.

edit on 1242017 by TerryDon79 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 08:17 PM
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Also the Moron Church can no longer go door knocking there.



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 08:40 PM
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The Jehovah witnesses do not believe in fighting, they do not join the military at all. That is probably why Russia does not want them in their country. Everyone would join the Witnesses if they were not required to join the military.

That is about the only reason I can see for Russia not wanting them there. I suppose they get picked on by the war mongers here because of their belief of not fighting.



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

I used to have some jw round and talk to me. I thought they where crazy as hell, but didn't tell them that. I just sat there for 10 minutes while they preached. Seemed to make them happy and that puts a smile on my face.
Also a lot of jw were put in prison during ww2 for refusing to fight, that's something I respect considering the whole commandment of do not kill.
edit on 12-4-2017 by ZeussusZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 09:09 PM
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I have been watching these JW threads very carefully the past couple weeks. I almost never comment on anything religious or political, but I feel its time to share my experience with JW's and you can all decide if they are an extremist cult or not.

I was a Witness from birth to age 13, I am 30 now, my whole entire family except for my brother, sister and mother are or where Witnesses. I used to go to church twice a week and go out into service (going house to house) at least twice a month. You would think that is a good thing and a normal life but things got bad very quickly and still are to this day.

When I was 13 my mother and father where going through a divorce, which ultimately led to my fathers death (that story is for another time) while going through the divorce my mother got a boyfriend. After my father passed the Elders at the Kingdom Hall banned my mother from the church due to her infidelity. They did this knowing that us 3 children would no longer be able to return to the church seeing as there would be no parent to bring us.

So by banning my mother then basically banned us 3 children. Us 3 children could live with that and be fine but the JW's brought it to another level due to my mother fighting the churches decision. They lied to my family, 2 aunts and uncles, 6 cousins, my grandmother who is also an elder and the whole church. They told my family that if they did not stop speaking to us they would all be banned and would ultimately lose there ticket to heaven. That is a very sick thing to do Imo. In 17 years I have only spoken to my grandmother a handful of times and on every occasion she preached to me and tried getting me to go back to the Kingdom Hall with her. 1 of my aunt and uncles and 3 cousins have not spoken to my family at all in those 17 years. And my other aunt and uncle and cousins have just recently left the church and are happier now then ever. They have realized they were slave to the church.

I hate to label something like this but the organization of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a cult, plain and simple. To completely brain wash and break up a family is a sick thing to do. I feel so bad for my grandmother who truly believes in her heart that we are "worldly" and will stop her from going to heaven if she speaks to us. My son will be 7 soon and she has never met him and we only live 5 minutes apart. I am not a religious person at all anymore, but that's a personal decision I have made due to looking at the facts of the universe. Once I told the JW's (that my grandmother sent to my house every week like clockwork) that I do not believe in god they have stopped coming to my home and there is no communication with the rest of my family at all.

I remember the church very well and the way they spoke about people that are not Witnesses. Take my word for it, they are an extremist cult. If you are not one of them you are evil and the devil owns your soul. If they have friends or fall in love with a non Witness they will not get into heaven.

I don't know if what Russian is doing is the right way to handle this, but I feel the JW's should get there day in court and a decision should be made as to whether they are a cult or not. I already know they are, and if you do research you will find all the people at the top are all about the money and that's all its about to them at the cost of many stories like mine and many family's being torn apart.

Well that's what happened to my family and I hope my grandmother will come her senses before she passes and gets to meet her grandchildren.
edit on 4/12/2017 by 772STi because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 10:20 PM
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We have to understand as children, we believe in Santa , at least in America. As we grow up and our minds are enriched with enlightment of our fourfathers wisdom, we evidnentually see through all this money making skimms. The Moron Church is now making 5 new Temples around the world this year, for what? You guys tell me.



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 11:04 PM
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originally posted by: ZeussusZ
a reply to: rickymouse

I used to have some jw round and talk to me. I thought they where crazy as hell, but didn't tell them that. I just sat there for 10 minutes while they preached. Seemed to make them happy and that puts a smile on my face.
Also a lot of jw were put in prison during ww2 for refusing to fight, that's something I respect considering the whole commandment of do not kill.


The wife and I did some bible study with a couple of older JWs. They are really good people, both in their eighties. If I was to join a religion I would consider them. They do have some things I do not agree with, like the women having to be sort of accountable to the man, but all the men I met when I went to church a couple of times do not take advantage of that at all. Most other religions that try that wind up with the husband abusing it and mistreating the women, that isn't something I see at all with them. Actually they stressed that the husband has to treat the woman real good in their teachings.

If everyone in this country was a JW, we wouldn't have an army either. If everyone in the world was like them, we would have no wars. But, I see that as a pipe dream, we have too many power hungry and greedy people in this world who want to try to gain more control.



posted on Apr, 13 2017 @ 02:21 AM
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originally posted by: musicismagic

The Moron [sic] Church is now making 5 new Temples around the world this year, for what? You guys tell me.

Google it?

Before you go calling anyone a moron, you do know this thread is about JWs, and not the LDS church, right?



posted on Apr, 13 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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Am I missing something here. Why is the Russian court being held in New York?
Why is it being deliberated in New York?




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