jay walking now a dangerous crime?

a reply to: Bedlam

That's a large part of the reason lawsuits have become little more than 'get rich quick' schemes. Punitive damages, such as should and probably will be requested in this case, are only punitive if they punish the offender. Punishing the offender's employer or the offender's insurance company does nothing truly punitive.

What we need is a legal framework shift that delegates any damages labelled as 'punitive' to the offender personally, unable to be paid by anyone on their behalf. Lacking that, at least if the punitive damages come directly from the departmental discretionary funds, some semblance of punishment is maintained.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
and yes it's a sad state of affairs when frivolous civil suits dictate how law enforcement handles some cases.

What the hell do you consider frivolous?

You're supposed to just cave in and do anything an officer says, correct or not, because "you can challenge it in court", except now you think that is anathema also.

Why not just elevate cops to godhood? Let 'em pull their firearms and just do what they want, Judge Dredd come to town. No one can question their decisions at all, in your point of view.

Jesus.

intrpr
Read SlapMonkey's post above.

originally posted by: TheRedneck

What we need is a legal framework shift that delegates any damages labelled as 'punitive' to the offender personally, unable to be paid by anyone on their behalf. Lacking that, at least if the punitive damages come directly from the departmental discretionary funds, some semblance of punishment is maintained.

TheRedneck

If a legal settlement doesn't actually effect some sort of negative feedback on the offender, it serves no purpose.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

If he can hear them coming it would make even more sense to wait half a minute before comitting to a physical takedown, from a professional viewpoint. After looking at the dash cam footage, I'd venture a guess that his viewpoint is a little different.

The civilian played right into this guy's hand though.

FTP!!!

These "smiths" are all the same, conditioned the same and think the same...that they are above all and end all of the law. They can all go to hell. Idc what nationality they are. White cops just want to lord over everyone and get their white brothers off; black cops have turned against their own; all others are just trying to express their weakness as dominance.
Fools, the lot of them.

a reply to: blackthorne

a reply to: Bedlam

Very true, and the root cause is a concentration on reward instead of punishment.

In any civil trial, the purpose of the court is to correct a wrong. If I drive my car through your living room, I have monetarily harmed you by destroying your property. My attitude has no bearing on that fact. A civil court's duty is to force me to pay you the amount required to correct the damage. In cases where my attitude indicates a propensity to continue driving through living rooms, or an indication I wanted to drive through your living room without regard to your safety, punitive damages are there to dissuade me from driving through living rooms in the future.

But rather than viewing the punitive damages as purely punitive for the offender, people tend to see them as a reward to the victim for being victimized. Rather than concentrate on the source of the damages, the focus becomes the recipient. Instead of punitive, the damages are made beneficial.

This does not apply to non-punitive damages; they are meant to be beneficial to directly compensate the injured party.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Bedlam

What the hell do you consider frivolous?

when some one ignores lawful orders and is warned numerous times, and still ignores them and then challenges the cop to a fight, and he is taken down with force for resisting , and you have to remember he challenged the cop to a fight so the cop had no way to know if the guy was going to stand there or start throwing punches, the cop acted reacted appropriately.

then when someone thinks they can make a big payday they sue claiming racism or police brutality. that's frivolous.

You're supposed to just cave in and do anything an officer says, correct or not, because "you can challenge it in court", except now you think that is anathema also.

so now we just let people decide if they did something wrong and can ignore the police. hell that's gonna be the best world.
as i said the guy was walking in traffic, you see it in the video. he ignored the cop, he told him claiming that he looked both ways, all he had to do was listen to the cop and see what would have unfolded. but no he wanted to mouth off and decide for himself that he didn't do anything wrong. don't you see the problem there.

you cannot allow people to decide if they are going to comply or not. true the SCOTUS says you can resist unlawful arrest, but they also ruled that police can detain and question with probable cause, the cop seen him walking in traffic, that was the reason for the stop.
but he wasn't under arrest at the time and jay walking is only a ticket. the guy escalated this not the cop.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Bedlam

Very true, and the root cause is a concentration on reward instead of punishment.

Agreed, and while the wrong should be righted, if possible, the person or group who perpetrated or permitted the wrong should be deterred from repeating the offense by the judgement.

Telling the person who just had his face smashed in that it's ok for that to have happened, here's some money to make it all better, it should concentrate more on paying the guy's medical bills and missed work time, and then serve up a full dose of 'don't do that again' to the offender.

If the punishment is a pat on the back and shunting the punishment to the taxpayers, it doesn't seem to have hit the mark somehow.

Handing the officer a monetary fine for some part of it, plus a nice kick in the ass to the offender's department would seem to work better. I can't think of any better keg to tap than the nice pool of money available to them from their civil forfeiture activity. By nature, it's extra money that they can't budget for. So it's by definition discretionary funds. If they go without some nice things then it's something maybe to think about before you decide to go that extra step and tune someone up for fun.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Bedlam
the cop acted reacted appropriately

Up until about 1:40 in the video. And at that point the cop lost his cool and decided a nice beating on camera was in order, for the non-resisting person on the ground.

And that's where he screwed the pooch.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

the cop seen him walking in traffic

So he was high on '___' or shrooms as well, that's a legal use of The Force? Damnd, now I want a fricken badge as well!

Don't see any traffic though, just one car with freaked out passengers. Perfectly understandable though, that berserk of a cop would have had me jumping out of the car way sooner and way more loaded with adrenaline...

a reply to: Bedlam

how do you that if the cop would have waited that the guy would have complied, he had already ignored the cop and challenged him to a fight. what in doing that would give the cop the indication that he was going to back down and allow the cop to arrest him or ticket him.

to the contrary, he expressed the desire to confront the cop with a fight, and continued to ignore a lawful order.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

So he was high on '___' or shrooms as well, that's a legal use of The Force? Damnd, now I want a fricken badge as well!

mind pointing out where i said that.

Don't see any traffic though, just one car with freaked out passengers. Perfectly understandable though, that berserk of a cop would have had me jumping out of the car way sooner and way more loaded with adrenaline...

did you watch slap monkey's video, did you not see the two cars that passed him going both ways.now granted i'm not up on the jaywalking laws in california, and they might not have been close, but none of us where there so we can't really say now can we.

a reply to: Bedlam

I can't think of any better keg to tap than the nice pool of money available to them from their civil forfeiture activity.

Bedlam = Genius

Civil forfeiture is well beyond Constitutional limitations anyway, and should be stopped cold, but if it cannot be, we can at least make sure police departments do not profit from legalized theft.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
intrpr
Read SlapMonkey's post above.

Searched can't find it. What?

How many stigmas you want to accuse a person of? Besides being black, he's homeless, poor, in the hood.

In fact he's probably familiar to the police. After all he's trying to survive on the streets, they see him all the time. Especially at night when he and the cops are the only ones outdoors. So they always stop and frisk, rifle his pockets, ask a bunch of damn fool questions. Even though they know him, it doesn't matter, he's black, outdoors at night in the hood... obviously a gangsta-thug-drug dearer.

So he finally gets tired of being jacked up and snaps, which is what they are waiting for,... now pounce. Break him, get hm off their beat, "jails are filled with lots of your type, buddy". Towards the end of the cell phone camera video I linked at top of page one you hear him pissed off shouting, "leave me alone, why don't you leave me alone!"

I been there, I know exactly how he feels. I understand white privilege too from my time on the streets. The only difference between me and him and the hospital, jail cell or the morgue is-- I'm White.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Bedlam

how do you that if the cop would have waited that the guy would have complied, he had already ignored the cop and challenged him to a fight. what in doing that would give the cop the indication that he was going to back down and allow the cop to arrest him or ticket him.

to the contrary, he expressed the desire to confront the cop with a fight, and continued to ignore a lawful order.

Except theres no video of all the other times they jacked him up for no reason, Straw that broke the camels back.

Read my other post ^^^.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Bedlam

how do you that if the cop would have waited that the guy would have complied, he had already ignored the cop and challenged him to a fight. what in doing that would give the cop the indication that he was going to back down and allow the cop to arrest him or ticket him.

to the contrary, he expressed the desire to confront the cop with a fight, and continued to ignore a lawful order.

Except theres no video of all the other times they jacked him up for no reason, Straw that broke the camels back.

Read my other post ^^^.

SLapmonkey posted the 2 videos we have all been waiting for. The "other" side of the story. 2nd page of this thread I believe. The guy was acting like a DB the whole time, ignoring at least 17 commands, etc.


ETA. The guy was almost hit by a car while "jay walking" which is why the cop wanted to talk to him in the first place. Simple harmless talk and the guy brought all this down on himself. Even the earing thing in the cop car, at the same time the cop answers "ill go look for it", before the cop can even finish saying that, he runs his mouth. His ATTITUDE and lack of respect for the law is what landed him in this situation.

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Bedlam

how do you that if the cop would have waited that the guy would have complied, he had already ignored the cop and challenged him to a fight. what in doing that would give the cop the indication that he was going to back down and allow the cop to arrest him or ticket him.

to the contrary, he expressed the desire to confront the cop with a fight, and continued to ignore a lawful order.

Except theres no video of all the other times they jacked him up for no reason, Straw that broke the camels back.

Read my other post ^^^.

SLapmonkey posted the 2 videos we have all been waiting for. The "other" side of the story. 2nd page of this thread I believe. The guy was acting like a DB the whole time, ignoring at least 17 commands, etc.

The official story limited to this event. More to my point, not the other 'pre textual' ten times they 'harassed' him before this.

So he finally snapped, can't blame him. Besides, he turned away in the video when the cop became aggressive, not physically resisting. Double besides, the cop did this by himself (tilt), ensuring he could later claim I was alone, in fear of my life. I had to use brutality, body slam him to the pavement and repeatedly punch him in the face (double tilt) for "not complying fast enough", instead of waiting for back up or employing a taser.

Obvious beat down by power happy cop, who is now under review for overstepping his authority.

Triple besides, the video I brought showed the raw response of by standers. If this happened on your street you'd be just as pissed,. Jay walking my ass.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Bedlam

how do you that if the cop would have waited that the guy would have complied, he had already ignored the cop and challenged him to a fight. what in doing that would give the cop the indication that he was going to back down and allow the cop to arrest him or ticket him.

to the contrary, he expressed the desire to confront the cop with a fight, and continued to ignore a lawful order.

Except theres no video of all the other times they jacked him up for no reason, Straw that broke the camels back.

Read my other post ^^^.

SLapmonkey posted the 2 videos we have all been waiting for. The "other" side of the story. 2nd page of this thread I believe. The guy was acting like a DB the whole time, ignoring at least 17 commands, etc.

The official story limited to this event. More to my point, not the other 'pretextual' ten times they 'harassed' him.

So he finally snapped, can't blame him. Besides he turned away in the video when the cop became aggressive, not physically resisting. Double besides the cop did this by himself (tilt), ensuring he could later claim I was alone, in fear f my life. I had to use brutality, body slam him to the pavement and repeatedly punch him in the face(double tilt) for "not complying fast enough", instead of waiting for back up or employing a taser.

Obvious beat down by power happy cop, who is now under review for obviously overstepping his authority.

Triple besides the video I brought showed the raw response of by standers. If this happened on your street you';d be just as pissed,. Jay walking my ass.

First of all, he did not body slam the guy, he twirled him around to the ground, the guy was never "picked up" and slammed. Second, cops can use whatever physical force is necessary to get those cuffs on when the person is resisting. Should he have just held hands the whole time? Should he wait until the guy grabs his gun? No, he quickly did what was required to get the guy to comply. Notice how after the punches, he starts complying? Violence is the only language these people speak. Commands do NOTHING.

a reply to: intrptr

And I am not aware of him being harassed 10 times. But I will bet he did something to warrant contact. Just because a person is too stupid to realize they are breaking the law, does not mean they aren't.