jay walking now a dangerous crime?

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: blackthorne

looks like the man bowed up and the cop showed him he wasn't quite the big badass he thought he was.

Except the cop's superiors immediately dropped all charges. And launched an investigation. And said that the cop's behavior was "disturbing". That's the cop's bosses. That ought to tell you something, but you're not listening yet.

a reply to: blackthorne

I don't know if the cop is racist and I don't care. The cop assaulted a person and assault is crime no matter who is assaulted or why they are assaulted. It's not a crime because of the color of the skin... nor is it justified because of the color of the skin. All I need to know is that for whatever reason this cop can and will use his position of power to commit assault, and if he can do it that guy he can do it to anyone for whatever reason.

a reply to: blackthorne

I don't think it's necessarily racist, just bad judgment by a power hungry police officer and maybe bad judgment by the citizen just trying to save 30 seconds by not going to a designated crosswalk. That being said I do jay walk on occasion but always look both ways and never with even a single car on the road, in an intelligent society it wouldn't be a problem.

a reply to: blackthorne

when i was i lived in cali, it was like 2am, i do not drink, do not do drugs. empty street, im from around nyc, went to school in the city, hang out in the city all the time, we jaywalk whenever.

it was an empty street, i went to walk, 2 pigs rolled up on me, yelling at me. i do not get loud with pigs, because in real life, they would never get loud with me. but they have their pretty little guns, their shiny badges, so they get big heads.

i did not get a ticket, but i thought it was ridiculous. i then found out you cannot jaywalk in cali.

pigs love to prove how tough they are. here is how i handle it. i look at them, realize if this was at a bar, no way they have the balls to speak to me like that. so i let them rant and rave, even give me a ticket if they like. then i walk away. ive had pigs scream at my face trying to provoke me, but they want to arrest me, and im smarter than them, why give them what they want.

that is why nyc is the best. open 24 hours a day, we can jaywalk whenever we want too.

like nwa said, fokk the police.
BUT the police have the gun and the badge, so when you get pulled over, let them rant and rave, regroup and get out of there without a plunger up you @ss.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: blackthorne

looks like the man bowed up and the cop showed him he wasn't quite the big badass he thought he was. and that's before i even went to the OP source and read the article i watched the video intrptr posted. which you can see the guy pull his jacket off and posture, everybody that's ever been in fights or saw one knows what that is or at least should.

plus there is no audio of the cop and cain, so we don't know what the guy said to the cop before hand.

i'll never understand why people don't feel it's in their best interest to just do what the cops tell you. chances are if he would have just went over to the cop and talked to him he would have just told him not to do it again, or written him a ticket.

but no got mouth off and start sh@@ and then claim racism or police brutality.

Finally some damn common sense in here.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: blackthorne

looks like the man bowed up and the cop showed him he wasn't quite the big badass he thought he was.

Except the cop's superiors immediately dropped all charges. And launched an investigation. And said that the cop's behavior was "disturbing". That's the cop's bosses. That ought to tell you something, but you're not listening yet.

No matter how innocent a cop is, if the public whines enough about it (racist!!!!) then they always open an investigation. Mike Brown anyone? Clear cut self defense, but people made a huge fuss and that cop almost lost it all.

a reply to: Bedlam

Except the cop's superiors immediately dropped all charges. And launched an investigation. And said that the cop's behavior was "disturbing". That's the cop's bosses. That ought to tell you something, but you're not listening yet.

so, that doesn't mean the guy didn't tell the cop he was gonna whip his ass, for all we know the cops bosses are just trying placate the community and stop a riot.

always two sides to a coin. and it's not always the cops fault as most on here want to claim.

If it turns out this cop was in the wrong, and that guy actually didn't do anything at all, then I will be the first to say I was wrong. But with the evidence thus far, it seems to be the typical way these things always play out.



cop giving orders, guy not listening, grilfriend pleads with guy to listen, but he doesn't. Guy is ready to fight and takes off his coat....That is what I saw. Could the guy have been warm and took his coat off? Sure, even though doing so at that particular place and time never crossed the guy's mind that it looks threatening to the Officer. Some people are just dumb like that. But the cops don't know if he is dumb or consciously aware of what his actions look like.

There are cops out there that are loose cannons. I think it may be about five percent of them at most are like that. Some local police departments do not have any like that, others have a couple of them that got an attitude. We don't have many black people here so they can't target blacks, but they will slam someone into the car hood if they give them any lip. You learn to treat cops with respect and they treat you the same way.

Did you know that only 9% of crosswalks buttons in New York City actually do anything? Or that a piece of US government legislation disabled all elevator "close door" buttons in 1990? But these buttons are still there, and we still push them, even when we know that they do nothing. But why? And what does this tell us about the other illusions of control that the social engineers have placed before us? Join James Corbett for today's thought for the day as he takes you on a walk across the street

Great ploy to criminilaze millions with, gotta give em that.

Just concentrate on what the victim said, not on why this whole issues reeks of red-tape madness. And don't forget to obey a nice day on your brave new quest for traffic lights and non-disabled crosswalk buttons!

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

I have to ask, why does this leo prefer to get into a physical altercation? Why not move backwards and point his sidearm if he was so afraid of this civilian?

Either way the wind blows leading up to the incident, that would have been the safer procedure for this officer. Getting physical greatly diminishes his survival chances as there's a holstered gun up for grabs, and whatever else the suspect may have hidden.

Unprofessional behaviour.

a reply to: blackthorne
I can't speak to the racism, and not hearing what the man was saying to the LEO, I can't tell you what the provocation for the LEO, if any, was in order for him to do that to the guy.

I can, however, speak to the reality of the posturing of the guy in the street, and the way that he was standing before the cop took him down was very confrontational--but like I said, I can't hear what was being said, but his body language to the officer was, shall I say, "very assertive."

Well, as I'm writing this, I'm watching the police dashcam of the event:

Now, from the get-go, Mr. Cain is being an ass to the officer--the officer tells him that he wants to talk to him, and Cain just basically ignores him and keeps walking. He DOES, however, take his hands out of his pocket with the officer asks, so that's smart, but then he continues to ignore the LEO and keep walking. As he continues to walk away, the officer informs him that if he doesn't stop so the LEO could speak with him, he was going to take him to the ground.

Mr. Cain then decides the best thing to do (since the officer asserted that he's stopping him for jaywalking...really?) is to again jaywalk into the street while still not stopping to talk to the officer. The officer then repeats that he will take Cain to the ground if he does not stop (numerous times), and Cain then starts saying that he's being stopped for nothing, then turns around toward the LEO (while in the middle of the street) in response to his commands and says, "Or what, you're holding on to your gun? You a big man because you have a gun right now? I don't have nuthin'...," and then he takes off his jacket and proceeds to get into an aggressive stance. We then can't hear anything because the video from inside the car is spliced in, but the officer at that point had enough and did what he warned him about--he took him down.

The LEO told Mr. Cain no less than the following before he took him to the ground:
- "Stop" or "Come here" 7 times
- 'Stop or I'll take you down' 2 times
- "Get down on the ground" 5 times

There were other times in there, too, but I couldn't specifically hear them, but fourteen different times, Mr. Cain was told to stop or warned that if he didn't, he'd get taken to the ground. Fourteen times, Mr. Cain chose not to stop, and on top of that, challenged the officer's authority to stop him (which he had full authority to do, on the weak infraction of jaywalking).

Mr. Cain's actions got him taken to the ground, plain and simple.

Where this get's pretty terrible on the officer's part is that he decides that he needs to strike Mr. Cain's face/head area at least 15 times before finally cuffing him. It even appears that the last 8 hits were don't while the LEO was holding something in his striking hand, but I can't confirm that.

Once detained, though, it was probably not in Cain's best interested to yell, "You don't know who you f**kin' with!" He then decides that it's intelligent to tell the LEO to take his gun and shoot him in the head because he's tired of living. He then spits at the cop as he's shutting the door and throws a temper tantrum, necessitating the LEOs to constrain him until he calms down.

Mr. Cain then proceeds to break down emotionally in the vehicle...then he demands $100 for his earring that he lost in the arrest.

Look, I feel for Mr. Cain--he truly seems as though he's been having a rough week and that this was just the cherry on top of the crap sundae, but in all reality, this most likely would have been avoided if he had just stopped and discussed the issue with the officer. Hell, it may have been just a warning and he could have kept heading on his way--maybe not--but I'm quite certain that it would have ended up better than this.

Both initial players in this incident were in the wrong, and the officer has been rightly called out for his actions, but if Mr. Cain had made a better decision just to talk to the LEO from the start, we wouldn't be having to waste our days discussion incidences like that.

All of that said, I don't think this was an instance of racism, I think it was an instance of poor decision making on both individuals. But, really, bugging someone over jaywalking? I've been bugged/harassed about jaywalking in my life more than once, but there are times on certain roads that you either be an adult, decide when it's safe to cross a road, or you go out of your way to look for a crosswalk that may not exist nearby. The issue here, though, is that a crosswalk did exist on the opposite side of the street...less than twenty feet away. (but I think that enhances the stupidity of the law...it's twenty feet, and Mr. Cain didn't impede traffic at all)

The premise of this stop was stupid, but as for racism--considering that this white guy has been harassed for jaywalking before, too (and in California, no less)--I don't think racism has anything to do with this, but a sh**ty attitude and an over-aggressive LEO did.

But, dammit people, just stop and talk to a cop for a second--he was just doing the job that he was hired to do at the start of this video, even if the law is ridiculous.

ETA: No video splicing, just dash/vehicle cams

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
If it turns out this cop was in the wrong, and that guy actually didn't do anything at all, then I will be the first to say I was wrong. But with the evidence thus far, it seems to be the typical way these things always play out.


cop giving orders, guy not listening, grilfriend pleads with guy to listen, but he doesn't. Guy is ready to fight and takes off his coat....That is what I saw. Could the guy have been warm and took his coat off? Sure, even though doing so at that particular place and time never crossed the guy's mind that it looks threatening to the Officer. Some people are just dumb like that. But the cops don't know if he is dumb or consciously aware of what his actions look like.

So you are saying if he mouthed off or bucked up as someone else called it then how the cop reacted is procedure? So cops walks up if suspect is cordial and fully cooperative he is simply given a ticket but if he shows attitude or any sort of disrespect including sticking his chest out then he is to be slammed to pavement and punched in face multiple times once down to the ground? And you agree with that? The fact all charges are dropped should tell you he didn't follow procedure and yet you continue to defend him even when his own won't? WOW also to add cop could have asked do you have anything in your jacket and guy could have took it off to show he didn't but continue to make jokes saying he could have been warm, either way removing a jacket for any reason doesn't call for that.

a reply to: Bedlam

oh and from the report you posted and didn't link to.

A verbal exchange occurred in the street between the two and the pedestrian began removing his jacket, challenging the officer to fight. The officer charged at the pedestrian to take him into custody.
MEDIA ADVISORY/NEWS RELEASE For Immediate Release No. 20170411-040 Tuesday, April 11, 2017 Department Investigates Altercation with Officer

and so it would seem that they are placating the public.

if you continue to allow people to challenge cops to fight, or ignore police officers, soon enough everybody will think it's all right to do it. then how will crime be handled?

a reply to: blackthorne

I believe the question of "racist or not" is not as important as the question of what gives police authority to carry out disgusting actions like such posted.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

'Walking while black'.

The 'rest' is history alright.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
and so it would seem that they are placating the public.

Or, they realize the cop's behavior is going to not play well in court. And knew that the guy did not commit a crime, and so dropped the charges.

The next chapter is where Sacramento loses in federal court to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars. The cop should end up footing that, but he won't. The local taxpayers will pay for it.

And since there's no direct feedback, the cops won't change a thing. The settlement should come from the police in some fashion. Perhaps the "equitable sharing fund". If they lost a few margarita machines and some bonus money, maybe their co-workers would begin to apply some negative feedback from within. It would be a start, anyway.

originally posted by: Balans
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

I have to ask, why does this leo prefer to get into a physical altercation? Why not move backwards and point his sidearm if he was so afraid of this civilian?

Either way the wind blows leading up to the incident, that would have been the safer procedure for this officer. Getting physical greatly diminishes his survival chances as there's a holstered gun up for grabs, and whatever else the suspect may have hidden.

Unprofessional behaviour.

Probably because he can hear backup coming right down the street, which brings another point, that this conversation lasted much longer than the video. What happened before he even called for backup? We missed a lot because it only shows the ending.

a reply to: Bedlam

watch slap monkeys video, you plainly see the guy walking in traffic, and that's why the cop stopped him. it is plain to see and hear that he ignored the cop and wasn't complying with lawful orders, and i bet dollars to doughnuts if it went to court he would have been found guilty.

and yes it's a sad state of affairs when frivolous civil suits dictate how law enforcement handles some cases. in this instance the city was more than likely trying to avoid a costly settlement.