New Axis (Russia-China-India)

You missed my point. I mean, you said he is more "pro-Soviet" because he is against the U.S., yet he is aligning with China, someone Russia also traditionally doesn't like.

Thus, it's not more the guy being pro-Soviet, he is just more anti-U.S. If he was purely pro-Soviet, he'd ignore China to. But he doesn't like the U.S., and he wants the power balanced, so he is willing to side with China at the moment.

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
And Putin more "Pro-Soviet?" I'd say Putin is just more "anti-American." The guy is calling for an "alliance with the East" as you said. Russia does not like China. That's an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" ideaology. His ideaology, however, is to join with the Chinese this time to resist the "dominance" of the "West."

Well I don't know about whether or not Russia likes China but I'm sure Putin likes Jiang



btw though I agree that the Chinese air force is still a bit behind, the air force is not everything. In fact it's only a small fraction of most militaries. The Chinese ground forces are not only massive but the Chinese soldiers have very strong endurance, determination, and courage, compared to most. I do not think Americans would be able to pull off something like the Long March or build the Great Wall with bare hands. In fact, I think endurance, determination, and courage is characteristic of most Asians (not that I want to be racist). The Vietnamese endured 10 years of war with the most powerful nation on Earth during the Vietnam War, and it turned out that the most powerful nation on Earth could not keep its public support and troop morale for 10 years and had to withdraw. The Japanese in WWII refused to lose to the Americans and employed tactics like Kamikaze bombings, etc, and furthermore they refused to surrender even after the first nuclear bomb was dropped on their city. There are plenty more examples but I don't feel like wasting too much time posting them all. If anyone really wants to hear I'd just give you my Chinese history textbook

The technology of the Russians, the imported technology of the Indians, and the raw strength of the Chinese (plus some indegenous technology from both Chinese and Indians) should make a very strong alliance. Of course that being a conventional military alliance. Nukes will ruin everything for everybody.

[edit on 28-4-2005 by Taishyou]

While I agree with you taishyou..
Im sure there are many Bush huggin Putin photos too!

And as for that polka-dotted outfit pic..
There's one with Jiang and Bush too!!
W4rlord had it as his avaatar once upon a time..


And yes broadsword.. He's not anti china.. so from that perspective he's not "pro-soviet" in toto..
As in, he doesn't obv. share all the soviet ideologies..
But he's in awe of the soviet era..
One of the "those were the good old days" type of people..

Moreover, who is to say that if the USSR hadn't broken up, then it would never have reconceiled with China..
I beg to differ with you..
"Pro-soviet" doesn't necessarily mean 'anti-china"..

As always.. enemies and friends never remain the same.. they're always subject to change.. What never changes are strategic interests..




[edit on 29-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Taishyou
"...I do not think Americans would be able to pull off something like the Long March or build the Great Wall with bare hands. In fact, I think endurance, determination, and courage is characteristic of most Asians...."
[edit on 28-4-2005 by Taishyou]

OK I'm not here to make enemies but I would like to say many people have made brave and inspiring achievements (the Egyptians- the pyramids, the British- their fight against Hitler, the Romans- with their Aqueducts, the Maya/Aztecs of Central America- the made pyramids the size of the Egyptians with no metal tools) I also enjoyed your examples I thought they were very good

what I am trying to say is that these are not examples of superiority but of the strength, perseverance, and indomitable will all of humanity posses


[edit on 30-4-2005 by ikillspys]

That's right, nothing about superiority. Just want to say they fight really hard.

Jus bringin the thread up to date with some latest developments regarding india-china-russia trilateral relations. hope u guys find it interestin

www.hindu.com...

ciao

punit

Originally posted by puneetsg
Jus bringin the thread up to date with some latest developments regarding india-china-russia trilateral relations. hope u guys find it interestin

www.hindu.com...

ciao

punit

just to add to this, i found this very interesting. The trilateral committee stresses that the China-Russia-India cooperation is not aimed against others
news link

Hmm i wonder who they are refering to...

[edit on 4-6-2005 by siddarthpanditv]

it just proves that India is playing both the US and sino-russ

Naah, they could work with eachother for a while... But after a while they would start to backstab eachother...

Originally posted by Daedalus3
As always.. enemies and friends never remain the same.. they're always subject to change.. What never changes are strategic interests..

China, Russia and India recently vowed to have a common Asian policy, probably military policies. Looks like they are getting chummy with each other again.

[edit on 5/6/05 by W4rl0rD]

I think this should be good for all three. And yeah India is playing with both (the usa and rus/china), but I am sure there is a good reason for it (read strategy).

On the same note the current leader of India are very good. (i believe the president is the same man who designed all the missiles for the country). The president also knows what he wants for his country (he even wrote a book about it called india 2020 (amazon link

so there is someone with a vision FINALLY leading the country.


[edit on 5-6-2005 by siddarthpanditv]

Originally posted by siddarthpanditv
I think this should be good for all three. And yeah India is playing with both (the usa and rus/china), but I am sure there is a good reason for it (read strategy).

On the same note the current leader of India are very good. (i believe the president is the same man who designed all the missiles for the country). The president also knows what he wants for his country (he even wrote a book about it called india 2020 (amazon link

so there is someone with a vision FINALLY leading the country.


[edit on 5-6-2005 by siddarthpanditv]

actually the president is only a figure head. he has absolutely no powers. all the powers lie with the Prime Minister, in this case Dr. manmohan Singh, who i might add is equally if not more capable than our distinguished President Dr. A.P.J Abdul Kalam

and as for india-china-russia relationship not working. i think to the contrary they changing world eco-political situations will only push them closer together. not cause they like each other but cause tht is the most advantageous stand for them to take.

lastly i do think India is playing both the U.S. and Russia-China, but then why shouldnt it?? Its not like the U.S. does not play with both India & Pakistan. It is all an integral part of International Diplomacy. The only objective being to gain the most advantageous position possible

ciao

punit

Some of the links i have in my archive.....

Will Brazil, Russia, India, China Be Superpower?

Economic might and military power therefore go hand in hand, and a tilting of the balance will, sooner or later, lead to a shift in the relative influence of nations. Seen in that light, you will be interested in a new study by a team of economists and planners at Goldman Sachs, called "Dreaming with BRICs: The Path to 2050." The BRICs — a new acronym in world affairs jargon — refers to Brazil, Russia, India, and China. They are large in territory and resources, they are populous, and, says the Goldman Sachs team, they are on their way up economically.


SCO wants date for US withdrawal from Central Asia

The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), an alliance grouping Russia, China and central Asian countries on Tuesday called for the US-led anti-terrorist coalition in Afghanistan to set a time frame for withdrawing its forces from member states.

Both Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan host US bases whose troops are involved in the Afghanistan operation.

The SCO also added Pakistan, Iran and India as observer nations.


India plans to fight terror along with China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan – the Shanghai body's terror fight

Singh said, "India observed the growth of the organization with great interest". In this connection, he expressed his satisfaction that "the members of this organization have quickly reacted to India's statement (on giving it observer's status)".

"We are also interested in helping develop closer cooperation within the organization," he said.

Russia and Asian states welcome USA's sworn enemy, Iran

Islam Karimov, the President of Uzbekistan, pointed out the destructive role of the USA in the Asian region. According to Karimov, the events, which have recently occurred in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan, unveiled only certain vestiges of the large-scale strategic plan, which the USA was gradually executing in the region. "The final goal of the plan is to change the political and economic correlation of forces in the USA's favor and to take the dominating position in the Central Asian region," the Uzbek president said.

Members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization agreed to introduce strict regulation of terms for foreign army bases to stay on the member-countries' territories. It particularly goes about US military bases in Kyrgyzstan and
Tajikistan.

China, Russia back India for Security Council seat

"The Ministers expressed shared confidence that their meeting in Vladivostok would provide a new impetus to the trilateral dialogue in all spheres of mutual interest," it said. Even though the trilateral dialogue is considered informal, the Vladivostok meeting effectively institutionalised it as an integral part of their foreign policy and a key element of global politics.

The Ministers "confirmed that strengthening of partnership in the trilateral format met the long-term national interests of India, Russia and China," the communiqué said. "They were convinced that development of mutually beneficial cooperation between the three countries in practical terms would make a considerable contribution to the strengthening of peace and stability not only in Asia but also globally."

China & India: Can They Do Better Together?

In this era of globalization, the elephant and the dragon are finally running fast, together. There is a sense of urgency for the two ancient peoples to catch up with the developed world. True, there is a high degree of rivalry between them, but all that this competition will produce in the end is a creative and productive partnership.

Mutual benefits are plenty. India has built up a world-class information technology (IT) army while China has created a fast-expanding manufacturing force. Their strengths are complementary in numerous ways, all they have to do is team up in a more productive fashion.

China, Russia warn of world domination

MOSCOW — Russia and China warned other nations Friday against attempts to dominate global affairs and interfere in the domestic issues of sovereign nations in what appeared to be a veiled expression of their irritation with U.S. policy.

China's president, Hu Jintao joins Vladimir Putin at the Kremlin to announce their agreement.
AP

Presidents Vladimir Putin and Hu Jintao signed a joint declaration after two days of talks calling for a stronger United Nations role in global affairs and opposing attempts "to impose models of social and political development from outside."

The two leaders also urged other states to renounce "striving for monopoly and domination in international affairs and attempts to divide nations into leaders and those being led."

While the declaration did not identify any specific country, it echoed similar veiled hints by Moscow and Beijing about U.S. policy in global affairs.

India, China and Russia to create new alliance to challenge USA's supremacy

Mr. Karagonov also pointed out considerable cultural differences between the three countries, as well as intense relations between China and India, RIA Novosti reports.

It was reported on Monday, however, that India and China concluded a strategic partnership agreement. Details of the new document were not exposed, although it is known that the parties came to agreement on the issues of the long-standing border dispute, bilateral trade relations and the economic cooperation. Indian and Chinese prime ministers stated that the document would boost diplomatic and economic links between China and India and help the two states resist "global threats."

For the time being it is not known if Russia is going to have at least something to do with the "strategic partnership" of India and China. It is not ruled out, though, that Beijing and Delhi decided to do without Moscow's participation.

Sino-Russian relations blossom

The signing of the 2001 Treaty for Good Neighbourliness, Friendship and Co-operation set in legal stone the sincere hopes of the two peoples for "eternal friendship and never enmity," marking a new phase in the maturity and stability of Sino-Russian relations.

In addition, demarcation of the 4,300-kilometre border was recognized in law, making it a link for "peace, friendship, co-operation and development." This also removed uncertainties that had surrounded political ties and provided security guarantees for future generations and a foundation for deeper growth of bilateral ties.

This year's joint communique signals that relations have entered their best-ever phase. These joint military exercises are the result of the two countries reaching an important stage in relations and a manifestation of the pragmatism demonstrated by both sides.

Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia and Tajikistan gather resources together to fight terrorism

he Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), a Moscow-led security grouping in the former Soviet Union, has prepared a draft protocol calling for the group to provide military equipment to member-states in emergency situations, the organization's press service said Aug. 2. The situations covered by the protocol include the plotting and execution of international terrorist attacks and external threats to the security, sovereignty or territorial integrity of any CSTO members. Aid will be provided at the request of member-states, which are Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia and Tajikistan. The governments of these countries now must approve the protocol.

This page was constructed by someone who has made up his mind but has researched it well... Brazil - Russia - India - China

Stellar

while i guess a sino/russ alliance is very possible, i think that the way things are going on currently in the economic and politiacal areas show that india may be allied with the us. also dont discount the eu. i think that the eu and america may also forge an alliance(there is already one, but with individual euro countries but not the eu itself.as for bric,just because these nations may be superpowers in the future does not mean that the us wont be. and besides all the 50 year predictions are pointless. do you think that anyone in 1955 could predict the global climate of today? of course not and we cant do that for 2050 eithr. regarding brazil, they have much more in common with the us then russ/chi/ind.
As an american i think that a us/eu/india/pacific rim*/and brazil should strengthen ties.this alliance would most definantly be the central power inthe world in terms of economic and military power. *japan,australia,tiawan, maybe s.korea
one more thing-in this world alliances are not forged by ideals anymore but by economic opportunities. later

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The US aint no match for Russia

Thats what the US has been gearing its self up for like half a century. The US military was not designed to occupy and police some nation like Iraq it was designed to fight a war with Russia in Europe. Its always been better at fighting large convential wars because thats what it was created to do.

That was the U.S. military of the 1980s. The current U.S. military is not geared for a war against a matching or superior enemy. Our military is designed to take on lesser enemies.

yeah i pretty much agree. we have concentrated so much on the war against terror, base closings, budget cuts that we are slowly losing the ability to fight a major was. however if the us and russia were to go to war conventionally the us would be the clear winner, providing that the war doesnt involve a ground campaign in russia(we all know how those turn out) . our forces now are spread out all over the globe and have lesser numbers then russia. as someone pointed out above, russia has about a million man army, and 20 million reserves.these 20 million reserves would be most likely only useful in defending the russian homeland agianst an invading force(the us would have to be brain dead to actually do this) and you must also consider that russia is more of a militaristic society than the u.s. these large numbers put quite a strain on russia. its interesting to note that in wwII america put out about 20 million total service personnel which means that currently if a draft was instituted we could double that amount.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

That was the U.S. military of the 1980s. The current U.S. military is not geared for a war against a matching or superior enemy. Our military is designed to take on lesser enemies.

but thts because currently there is no military tht can match the americans. surely u expect them to change their tactics and operational procedures once the world starts catchin up. and catch up it will

reply to post by JADESTONE

There is specualtion of a biblical reference to this alliance. I believe it will come to pass that they will get together and be a force to be reckoned with.