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30 years after the fall of the Soviet Iron Curtain, another one projected to exist in North America

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posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Krazysh0t

But go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm going to try this once, but if you keep up the arrogance and strawmans towards me then we are done. Not that I imagine you care about this nuance.

My position on the border is that our laws on the matter are fine as is. Net border crossing is decreasing and illegal entries from sources other than our Southern border are on the rise. Namely student visas that expire and people don't leave the country. The new offenders are Chinese and Indians.

However still talking about the Southern Border, we are poised to make our situation there a LOT worse. Mexico actually does a lot to shrink the number of border crossers since most of them are actually coming from further south than Mexico. This is because these people have to travel through Mexico to get to the US. With Trump's new antagonistic attitude towards Mexicans, it is only going to compel them to stop doing this and just let the people cross through the country unimpeded.

On top of all of this I really don't have a problem with immigrants. Illegal or legal. If they want to be in our country and contribute to our economy, I don't care. Diversity is awesome. But this doesn't mean that I don't agree with our current laws on border crossing. I just don't feel like anything more needs to be done.
edit on 11-4-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: TinfoilTP

Regardless. This isn't the mud pit, so drop the idiotic memes.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

So open border = good? Illegal immigrants = good?

Too bad the facts prove endless droves of illegal immigrants isnt good for the economy. Unless you have some shining examples inner cities that only you're privy to?

Too bad Mexico's own presidente says a wall is good to curb the weapons and drugs trades which are decimating Mehico. If you actually cared about Mexican's then you'd support an iron border.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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Total bull#. The Iron curtain kept their Soviet citizens from escaping the tyranny of communist rule. Trumps wall is keeping illegals out so they have to immigrate the legal way like everyone else in the history of this nation did.

A pure piece of Russian propaganda.


Crap. The Berlin wall kept people in just like the Mexico wall will, too. Don't mention it also kept western spies out.

The wall being built now on the border between Eastern Europe and Russia is made of armor, radar and missile installations. All emplaced by NATO, all pointed at Russia.

Thats what Stalin wanted to prevent, was the slow encroachment back into Eastern Europe by the West.

They aren't stupid you know, Napoleon and Hitler all tried exactly this, costing millions of Russian lives.

Every hundred years or so the west goes crazy and attacks Russia.

Stalin stayed in Europe because the Allies did. And look what happened, as soon as the Warsaw Pact disbanded and the Soviets went home, NATO expanded to fill the gap. For the first time since WWII there are German tanks on the Russian border, again.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So open border = good? Illegal immigrants = good?

Too bad the facts prove endless droves of illegal immigrants isnt good for the economy. Unless you have some shining examples inner cities that only you're privy to?

Which facts are you talking about? These ones?
Contrary to Trump’s Claims, Immigrants Are Less Likely to Commit Crimes
llegal immigrants benefit the U.S. economy


Too bad Mexico's own presidente says a wall is good to curb the weapons and drugs trades which are decimating Mehico. If you actually cared about Mexican's then you'd support an iron border.

Source?
edit on 11-4-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: The angel of light


Thanks for your attention, the thread is open to all of the ones that feel compelled by the huge contradiction that exist in between truly progress and the cultures of walls and fences.

Lets not focus exclusively on ancient walls, how about the Open air prison called GAZA?

Or the no mans land border between Iraq and Saudi Arabia?

The EU itself is realizing that open borders is useless to security from refugees and those seeking vengeance for NATO's ME foreign Policy.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:42 AM
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nvm
edit on 11-4-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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ENOUGH!



This is NOT the Political Mud Pit.

Behave yourselves or you will be post banned.

Do not reply to this post.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:48 AM
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It's not a crime to want people kept out of my country that have not used due process.
Nobody else has open borders.
Why is America expected to be any different?



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

We have plenty of tomato pickers here now. And its been on for long enough that many are no longer migrant status. Meaning more 'wild' types threatens their livelihoods. While the inner cities are shell shocked from over-population without jobs. Or don't you care about the poor inner city black people?

During the election, when Trump visited him, he said he supports the walls for the reasons I stated, just that he wasn't going to pay for it.

FACT: The drug cartel wars have decimated Mexican government stability.

Therefore your argument that an open border means a stable Mexican government, to enact better internal policing meaning less migrating, is out of touch with reality.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Krazysh0t

We have plenty of tomato pickers here now. And its been on for long enough that many are no longer migrant status. Meaning more 'wild' types threatens their livelihoods. While the inner cities are shell shocked from over-population without jobs. Or don't you care about the poor inner city black people?

Well the immigrant problem is vastly different than the institutionalized racism that keeps inner city black communities depressed. Though I will admit that we are working on bringing that institutionalized racism to immigration enforcement (if it already isn't here).

Nice false correlation fallacy though.


During the election, when Trump visited him, he said he supports the walls for the reasons I stated, just that he wasn't going to pay for it.

Source? Because I specifically remember the President not supporting the wall and him especially saying that Mexico won't pay for it.


FACT: The drug cartel wars have decimated Mexican government stability.

Therefore your argument that an open border means a stable Mexican government, to enact better internal policing meaning less migrating, is out of touch with reality.

I never made this argument. You invented it for me. Again.

PS: I'm still waiting for you to post your "facts".
edit on 11-4-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss


My favorite part is how the Chinese shouldn't have built a wall to try and prevent the Mongols from dominating them.

Didn't really help, did it? Genghis Khan's grandson was Emperor of China -- none other than the great Kubla Khan.

It was Chinese tolerance and adaptability, not the Great Wall, that finally defeated the Mongols. They became Chinese -- the Ming Dynasty. Did you know that?



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 12:13 PM
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As if Trump were already President of the United States, he was flown from the Mexico City airport to Los Pinos in the presidential helicopter. The two men then held a joint press conference adorned by Mexican and American flags in the ballroom normally reserved for foreign heads of state. Peña Nieto applauded the “fundamental agreements” with Trump on policy and offered to work with the Republican candidate to “strengthen” both the U.S.-Mexico and the Mexico-Guatemala borders. During his turn at the microphone, Trump proclaimed that Peña Nieto was his “friend.” www.theatlantic.com...


What's this? Mexico building a "wall"?


Trump and Peña Nieto have a great deal in common. The Mexican president already applies mass deportation policies, of the kind Trump promised, against Central Americans trying to cross Mexico towards the United States. Peña Nieto has also already begun construction, with U.S. help, of a high-technology equivalent of a “wall” on Mexico’s southern border with Guatemala. www.theatlantic.com...


Close enough:

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
However still talking about the Southern Border, we are poised to make our situation there a LOT worse. Mexico actually does a lot to shrink the number of border crossers since most of them are actually coming from further south than Mexico. This is because these people have to travel through Mexico to get to the US. With Trump's new antagonistic attitude towards Mexicans, it is only going to compel them to stop doing this and just let the people cross through the country unimpeded.


Does that not expect that Mexican government stability helps ensure less illegal migration?

Meanwhile, I dont need anyone to tell me that more Mexican gang bangers in big cities, like Chicago, are a good thing, because I already know that it isn't.

Meanwhile most of Florida cities the Hispanics are 90% Cubans. But in outlying agricultural areas they're 90% Mexicans. I've lived in both. Out herein Tomato country the Mexican's are already well integrated permanently into the population. And there are only so many tomato picker jobs. Meaning more competition only harms the ones already here. So spare me your link, as I already know there are well too plenty of illegals in general here now after decades of inflow, while more means its harder on the ones who have settled down. And lets not forget that the truly migrant types Western union half their money out of the nation, and thats after get paid tax free.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: Astyanax

Tell us how things would have went for the Chinese had they never built the wall to begin with.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

The nation state, and territorial loyalty, provides us with the surest model for peace, prosperity, and the defence of human rights. Blaming patriotism, nationalism, or isolationism for xenophobia is like blaming love for a crime of passion.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
that institutionalized racism


If businesses dont want to open storefronts in black inner cities, where getting robbed is a routine and riots over criminals getting killed by the police, are a constant threat, does that make a business racist?

Let us know when you go out of your way to open a store front in such a place.




posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: The angel of lightIt seems my friend that many Americans do not see exactly the things in the same way you look at them, and it seems they are the majority for about three millions and half at least.

Ummmm...are you citing the popular election results as a means to justify a majority-rules mentality and your own opinion on a border wall on America's southern border?

You do understand that the election tally had really NOTHING to do with the build-the-wall chant, nor does it mirror people's thinking on the wall--at least, you can't use it to fabricate such a point.

And the cherry on top of the sundae is that using the Bandwagon Logical Fallacy as a means to push a point's validity is a major error in what should be a logical debate.

But others are correct on here--the Iron Curtain was a prison wall, not a security wall.



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

What does it matter? It didn't work. So much for walls.

Surely you've heard that love laughs at locksmiths?



posted on Apr, 11 2017 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

1). Walls don't work, particularly in the age of cheap air fare, slave labor built tunnels and thousands of miles of vacant coastline. Bottom line, I wouldn't worry about it.

2). It was "Hadrian", not "Adrian".



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