What was the reason why 4 UAL employees needed seats on a full flight? It makes a difference.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I thought the airline had the right to ask anyone to leave the plane.

rhe airlines has carte blanche to do whatever they want, read the Terms and Conditions...

a reply to: Infoshill

That's pretty much what I was saying.
The guys agreed to those terms when he bought his ticket.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Infoshill

That's pretty much what I was saying.
The guys agreed to those terms when he bought his ticket.

OK, but...

Death by having one's face bashed into an armrest should not be a penalty for breach of contract, a civil matter.

a reply to: theworldisnotenough

We shall see I guess.
Had they just jumped on him I would totally agree.
He refused to leave the plane and they had to use force. That changes things in my mind.

a reply to: theworldisnotenough

Be this as it may, a judge in a court will probably rule that it is incumbent upon the customer to make himself aware of applicable terms and conditions.

This will never go to court. It will be handled privately, just like the decision to bump four passengers from the flight. Obviously someone in power didn't care about little people, felt privileged enough to pressure the airline to remove them by any means, including force if necessary.

We're outraged, because we saw what happened. Those four people whomever they were, the airline and security didn't care one hoot. Thats evident the way it was handled. They never thought about it being recorded.

Still like to know if there was any subsequent video taken of who sat in those vacated seats? My guess is they confiscated cameras or were told (threatened even) with similar treatment if people did.

The anonymous four. When you google the incident the only video that appears is of man being forcibly removed...

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: theworldisnotenough

We shall see I guess.
Had they just jumped on him I would totally agree.
He refused to leave the plane and they had to use force. That changes things in my mind.

They could have shot him then too? How about tasers?

The patience they didn't show was evident. Who's in such a hurry to kidnap four seats on that flight?

i have an " over booking " annecdote - from over 25 years ago -

mine was a far happier experience

it was a charter flight , dominated by :

blok one :delegates flying out to a conference

blok two : passengers meeting a cruise ship for a partial cruise

obviously none of the above groups would volunteer to be bumped to a later flight at any incentive

the flight was somehow over booked by 2 px

and the checkin crew attempted to get volunteers - but no takers - the incentive was raised - but still no one took the bait - raised again - a young lady travelling alone - bit - and her bags were unloaded - and she went back to the departutre lounge with her " rewards "

but still no one else would bite - i was reluctant - cos i only had 6 days off work - and an ambitions ittinary

the stand off continuted - and with < 5 minuites before it was due to roll - the captain [ of the aircraft ] came hurtling into the boarding area - livid

and with the backup of the airline rep - started pleading for another person to step down - pointing out that the plane was going no where till the manifest was 85 px

he then upped his offer - i suspect without consulting the airline rep - cos her face dropped

he offered - upgrade to 1st class on a turkish airlines flight leaving in 15 hours - hotel room [ bed only ] and FULL price refund [ £275 quid ] - now seing that i had only paid 180 for my ticket [ late bookings - bucket service ] - i imeditatly asked if the 275 offer was unconditional - as i had paid less for my ticket

his response was - yes IF you agree to leave the plane - we shook on it - and i told the checkin clerk what my bags looked like - and everyone else was allowed to board

the airline rep was a very unhappy bunny - having to write a cheque for 275 quid - and authorise a hotel voucher - but hey - the flight left on time

- the moral of the story - is that when you screw up - you have to up the incentive till someone bites

in my case - the 275 quid bonus spending money - allowed me to still do my ittinary - as i could afford to upgrade my in-country travel

not that I know of... also the passengers booed them when they came on the plane...oh and their own rules state that the passenger cannot be removed once they are in the seats..for overbooking..that is to be taken care of before they gate, they claimed it was overbooking

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: theworldisnotenough

They are lying stating the flight was 'overbooked'. It wasn't, every passenger booked their flight ahead of time, the plane was full, there were no 'spare seats'.

They covered up the 'add ons' with the overbooking explanation. My guess is they also lied about who the 'add ons' were. They claim they were employees but we already know they lied about overbooking too...

I'd like to know who the add ons were too. Any camera video who was sitting in those 'vacated' seats?

No?

Theres your sign.

originally posted by: research100
not that I know of... also the passengers bood them when they came on the plane...oh and their own rules state that the passenger cannot be removed once they are in the seats..for overbooking..that is to be taken care of before they gate, they claimed it was overbooking

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: theworldisnotenough

They are lying stating the flight was 'overbooked'. It wasn't, every passenger booked their flight ahead of time, the plane was full, there were no 'spare seats'.

They covered up the 'add ons' with the overbooking explanation. My guess is they also lied about who the 'add ons' were. They claim they were employees but we already know they lied about overbooking too...

I'd like to know who the add ons were too. Any camera video who was sitting in those 'vacated' seats?

No?

Theres your sign.

I heard that as well, about not being able to boot them once they are in the seat. I didnt know if it was true or not.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Infoshill

That's pretty much what I was saying.
The guys agreed to those terms when he bought his ticket.

You obviously haven't read the United Airlines Contract of Carriage which only talks about being "denied boarding" for an oversold flight, which they define as having more confirmed passengers check in than seats on the aircraft. This is not that situation since they had enough seats for every passenger with a confirmed reservation and ticket. The Contract of Carraige is silent about wanting to kick you off because a crew from another airline wants your seat. UA really screwed up to the tune of losing a billion dollars in market capitalization and China considering a boycott or having the government throw them out of China. That will bankrupt them. They already went bankrupt once and the merger with Continental has them already on the ropes.

if you look at Delta's provision for safety or refusal of service, none states anything about this particular predicament.

this is going to cost them far worse then what it would have to simply book their employees on a later flight.

a reply to: odzeandennz

did they not present it as overbooking when this went down, then it came out later that they needed the seats for 4 employees

As I understand it they picked some-one at random.
!. Why didn't they just ask for volunteers with compensation for moving?
But more importantly 2. Why did they choose some-one half way up the plane? Why not choose the first 4 seat at the front?

a reply to: ignorant_ape

- the moral of the story - is that when you screw up - you have to up the incentive till someone bites

Thanks for sharing, don't try that on United, they have a 'budget'.

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: odzeandennz

did they not present it as overbooking when this went down, then it came out later that they needed the seats for 4 employees

So they lied the first time but not the second?

originally posted by: coop039

originally posted by: research100
not that I know of... also the passengers bood them when they came on the plane...oh and their own rules state that the passenger cannot be removed once they are in the seats..for overbooking..that is to be taken care of before they gate, they claimed it was overbooking

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: theworldisnotenough

They are lying stating the flight was 'overbooked'. It wasn't, every passenger booked their flight ahead of time, the plane was full, there were no 'spare seats'.

They covered up the 'add ons' with the overbooking explanation. My guess is they also lied about who the 'add ons' were. They claim they were employees but we already know they lied about overbooking too...

I'd like to know who the add ons were too. Any camera video who was sitting in those 'vacated' seats?

No?

Theres your sign.

I heard that as well, about not being able to boot them once they are in the seat. I didnt know if it was true or not.

There are some limited circumstances where you can be removed from a flight: starting a fight; smelling really bad (yeah really). But the Contract of Carriage United loses this one. Bigly.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: theworldisnotenough

They are lying stating the flight was 'overbooked'. It wasn't, every passenger booked their flight ahead of time, the plane was full...

intrptr, you are absolutely right. The flight in question was NOT overbooked.

However, pretty late in the game, ABC World News Tonight, last night, Tuesday, and the morning news, this morning, Wednesday, were still terming the situation as "overbooked," which is sad and bad.

Any passengers who wish to take part in the game of overbooked musical chairs must report to the gate at least 15 minutes before boarding takes place.

The four United employees who sought seats on the soon-to-depart plane on which boarding had already been completed, per one report, arrived at the gate AT THE LAST MINUTE.

RULING: that flight was not overbooked. The overbooking provisions in the contract of carriage did not apply. What may have applied would have been a provision in the contract that the carrier had the right to remove any passenger for any reason or for no reason at all, however, I scanned United's contract of carriage, and I saw no such right/provision.

a reply to: theworldisnotenough

I think all corporations have lawyers now. Saying overbooked is good for public consumption. I first thought oh, they made a mistake. Thing is computers assign seating, they can't overbook anymore, if the desk tries to sell a ticket in advance for a flight thats full it goes bleep.

"I'm sorry sir(s) that flight is all booked up."

Which is what every ordinary person would be told...

These last minute additions were some way more special, from a 'higher authority', the cover story of 'employees' was a lie too, imo.

Do we know yet who they were? Need to see video, the video of the removal is a rash on the internet, video of who replaced them, nonexistent.

"You are all sworn to silence, we were not here, this did not happen."

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: theworldisnotenough


These last minute additions were some way more special, from a 'higher authority', the cover story of 'employees' was a lie too, imo.

Do we know yet who they were? Need to see video, the video of the removal is a rash on the internet, video of who replaced them, nonexistent.

Other passenger on the flight reported that the "new" 4 were 2 Republic Airlines pilots and 2 flight attendants. That would be the normal crew for an Embraer 170/175. Republic operates some flights as United Express.

originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: theworldisnotenough


These last minute additions were some way more special, from a 'higher authority', the cover story of 'employees' was a lie too, imo.

Do we know yet who they were? Need to see video, the video of the removal is a rash on the internet, video of who replaced them, nonexistent.

Other passenger on the flight reported that the "new" 4 were 2 Republic Airlines pilots and 2 flight attendants. That would be the normal crew for an Embraer 170/175. Republic operates some flights as United Express.

Thank you kindly. Got any video from phone cams?