US launches Tomahawks on Syrian airbases

a reply to: DJW001

It doesn't matter how we got here nor how much of what we believe to be true is really true. All that matters is that President Trump has made a decisive act that is about to have consequences.

Au contraire!

How and why we got here is the most important part of what's going on. Just as Russia feels backed into a corner now, we are also backed into one. It may be our own doing, but the consequences of stopping our actions are simply too dire now to even consider.

Russia, Syria, and Iran need that pipeline, at any cost. We have to stop not just the pipeline, but commerce itself in that entire area, again at all costs. If no compromise is reached, and reached soon, there will be all-out war. The only compromise would be one that allows both sides to prosper; if that is even possible, it will have to be rooted in the actions spanning a century of conflict. Trying to limit it to even the last decade is futility itself, and the reason peace has never existed there.

TheRedneck

a reply to: crazyewok

No one handed the information to me; I had to dig for it. I spent months, maybe years researching it. Where was my right to open and ready information?

If you want your answers, go look like I did.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: DJW001

It doesn't matter how we got here nor how much of what we believe to be true is really true. All that matters is that President Trump has made a decisive act that is about to have consequences.

Au contraire!

How and why we got here is the most important part of what's going on. Just as Russia feels backed into a corner now, we are also backed into one. It may be our own doing, but the consequences of stopping our actions are simply too dire now to even consider.

Russia, Syria, and Iran need that pipeline, at any cost. We have to stop not just the pipeline, but commerce itself in that entire area, again at all costs. If no compromise is reached, and reached soon, there will be all-out war. The only compromise would be one that allows both sides to prosper; if that is even possible, it will have to be rooted in the actions spanning a century of conflict. Trying to limit it to even the last decade is futility itself, and the reason peace has never existed there.

TheRedneck

en.wikipedia.org...

Watch U.N. Security council meeting on US strikes

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: allsee4eye
Russia, Iran, Syria joint statement. They will respond if attacked again.

twitter.com...

When is the next attack ?

That's up to Putin.

The Trump-Putin conspiracy theory ?

No, the Putin-Assad relationship. If Assad tests Trump's resolve it will be with Putin's blessings.

a reply to: TheRedneck

History is only relevant insofar as the locals there have long memories for grievances. The United States and Russia have relatively simple aims. The locals do not. Russia and the United States might well be able to compromise, but that will still not bring peace to the region.

a reply to: DJW001

No, the aims are very complex and rooted in history. It could take nothing short of a one-world government to resolve them.

The locals' basic disagreements are just religious and culturally reinforced. The superpowers' disagreements are nothing short of survival.

Follow the pipeline. Where does it come from; where does it go; who benefits and why; who does it hurt and why?

The answers are in history.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

The "superpowers" have shown that they can coexist and resolve issues to their mutual satisfaction. The pipeline is one of those issues that can be resolved between them. The problem is that Iran has been nursing a grudge that goes back to Thermopylae, and others are still disputing who Mohammed's rightful heir was. The United States and Russia don't need to get involved in that nonsense. Just so long as they have a Mediterranean port and we have access to oil, both sides should be happy.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: DJW001

No, the aims are very complex and rooted in history. It could take nothing short of a one-world government to resolve them.

The locals' basic disagreements are just religious and culturally reinforced. The superpowers' disagreements are nothing short of survival.

Follow the pipeline. Where does it come from; where does it go; who benefits and why; who does it hurt and why?

The answers are in history.

TheRedneck

“The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few”

a reply to: Ove38

“The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few”

America First! Make America Great Again!

The meeting at the Mar-A-Lago Situation Room.



www.usatoday.com...

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Ove38

“The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few”

America First! Make America Great Again!

It's about the needs of Europe, DJW001

ec.europa.eu...

a reply to: crazyewok


No one is technically disagreeing with you. If everyone had their way, every covert op would be an open book available to anyone in their respective constituencies. But in the world we have been forced to live in, yours is a theoretical model of a world that doesn't exist.


Some of you people want to have "Safety and Security" at any cost (which I might add even our founding fathers warned against having) yet don't want to abide by the means necessary to affect said "Safety and Security". The only way to attain that is by way of secrecy...because lets face it, even here on this very forum people sometimes simply cant keep their mouths shut.


So, it really boils down to what is it you want? Safety and Security? Or do you want NO "Safety and Security", forcing you to obtain it on your own and likely failing?
This is why TPTB are not going to have "a sit down with crazyewok and tell him whats what"...because even you would blab it all over the world...especially here just to make a point.


So pick Mr. Employer of government, which one do you REALLY want?

a reply to: DJW001

Just so long as they have a Mediterranean port and we have access to oil, both sides should be happy.

Absolutely, completely, unconditionally wrong.

You do not understand the economics of the situation.

TheRedneck

a reply to: alphabetaone

That, sir, is an excellent explanation! Kudos to you!

I'll also give my answer to your question: I want enough Safety / Security to not be blindsided by an attack, and enough transparency to ensure my government is providing that Safety/ Security. I do not think those are incompatible.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: alphabetaone



No one is technically disagreeing with you. If everyone had their way, every covert op would be an open book available to anyone in their respective constituencies. But in the world we have been forced to live in, yours is a theoretical model of a world that doesn't exist.

I am not talking about information on a covert op.

The missle strike is done. There is no risk in reaseing some of the evidence used. What harm can showing some drone/satilite pictures and chemical readings at ground zero do? None. There are not even any Americans on the ground FFS! (If they are they should not be there so # there saftey).

originally posted by: alphabetaone

Some of you people want to have "Safety and Security" at any cost (which I might add even our founding fathers warned against having) yet don't want to abide by the means necessary to affect said "Safety and Security". The only way to attain that is by way of secrecy...because lets face it, even here on this very forum people sometimes simply cant keep their mouths shut.

"You people" what the # is that meant to mean?

Dont talk down to me like I am some child.

Plus I do not proscipe to "safety and Security at any cost" mentality at all. ESPECIALLY when it involves goverment transparency.

Plus Syria has nothing to do with mine of the USA saftey and security in the first dammed place!

originally posted by: alphabetaone
So, it really boils down to what is it you want? Safety and Security? Or do you want NO "Safety and Security", forcing you to obtain it on your own and likely failing?

Back to binary options I see.

Again Syria has nothing to do with my safety and security.
And secondly I prefer neither hard options and rather a balance of safety and security where possible but not at the expense of accountability. When STARTING military operations against another government I expect reason with evidence to be given. After that the government can do what it likes with the war, but I want reasons and evidence for the initiation!

originally posted by: alphabetaone

This is why TPTB are not going to have "a sit down with crazyewok and tell him whats what"...because even you would blab it all over the world...especially here just to make a point.

Against stop with your patronising attitude.

I don’t expect them to sit down with "me" but release the evidence of why they initiate a wat publically.
After that they can keep whatever operational secrets they want.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

So pick Mr. Employer of government, which one do you REALLY want?

Government accountability the same thing as always that THAT stance will not budge.


The government has abused our trust countless times. They do not deserve the benefit of the doubt and I WILL NOT GIVE IT.

a reply to: Bedlam

Ufimtsev(stealth geometry), Zel'dovich(that thing similar to phase conjugation, but way wackier)...if the russians had actually followed up on what their scientists were discovering... How did we get those pics from Zel's lab again?

a reply to: crazyewok

You accuse me of providing only binary options where sometimes there are only binary options. There is reality, and then there is whatever it is you want. You can scream and flail all you like (and yes much like a child, hence my attitude toward you) but that wont change the reality of the world we live in.


We would all like a healthy mix of transparency with safety and security, but I can tell you from my experience it simply doesn't work...like it, don't like it, its simply the way it is.


You claim that the latest situation in Syria doesn't affect your safety and security? Then why are you being so vociferous about the topic here? I would think you wouldn't care if it doesn't affect you.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: alphabetaone

I want enough Safety / Security to not be blindsided by an attack, and enough transparency to ensure my government is providing that Safety/ Security. I do not think those are incompatible.

I agree. I want those things too. I just cant help but to wonder if there's a point where it isn't always prudent to have both simultaneously? Sometimes triage plays a role insofar as the greater good (only with respect to assigning degrees of urgency).