Vaccines again...,

Some added food for thought...

originally posted by: Barliman
Autism has increased radically in frequency from about 1/2500 to around 1/50 from the early 70's until now. That is NOT compatible with a primarily genetic problem. Certainly some genetic heritages may be more prone to toxins introduced in to the environment.

Vaccines are not to blame, otherwise how would you explain that Oman's autism rate is 1.4 per 10,000 with a vaccination rate of 99%, whilst in the US the rate is 147 per 10,000 with an immunization rate of only 91%?

Oman Autism rate #1.
Oman autism rate #2.
US rate.
World immunization rates.

This site addresses the serious flaws in the studies that have been adduced as evidence that vaccines do not cause autism:
vaccinepapers.org...

The study they used, Mogensen et al 2016, was very flawed: first the data is from 1984 to 1987 when the vaccine had the whole cell version of Pertussis (this version was discontinued years ago and replaced with the acellular version which is milder).

Second they never clarified how the children died, they could have died of malaria or car crash for all we know. There is no data on cause of death, which makes their conclusion very suspicious.

Third, tiny sample, 1057 children in one region of Africa 30 years ago cannot give any conclusive epidemiological results.

I can list more weaknesses if you wish but, to summarize, the study does not prove children vaccinated with DTP are at a higher risk of mortality.

originally posted by: ttobban

Some added food for thought...

Don't forget after watching the first video to go to their website and buy their non-tested supplements!

And re. the 2nd video; don't you think you should be listening to people who are medically qualified rather than computer scientists about vaccines?
Just a thought.

much like the oil companies paying people to say climate change is fake, tobacco companies claiming smoking doesn't cause cancer and rival companies to bayer proclaiming roundup weedkiller to be a form of population control, you need to find out who's funding these morons.

a reply to: Pardon?

I will continue to think for myself, thank you... I always have and always will.

Dr. Seneff is a senior research scientist at MIT. Go ahead and try to discredit intelligence for reasons that she won't buy into what is told to us about vaccines, but your points about what I should feel are no different than what vaccine supporters already practice in life... to just keep believing what doctors are paid to tell us and live in a world of ignorance.

I accept what I choose in life as far as vaccines go... just as it should be accepted for consenting adults to be given vaccines. So, why are people relentless about what I should feel and listen to? It's an invasion of privacy, just like giving a vaccine to an innocent child is.

It's seriously a freaking joke that people are so easy to listen to what their doctors tell them. Doctors of medicine we're talking about here... not doctors of health. Sure, let's add a cervical cancer vaccine, while ignoring that baby powder causes it... it's like a dumb and dumber movie living out in reality. I was born while a damn ashtray was put on my mother's bedside so she could smoke her so called 'harmless' cigarettes to relax the labor pains. Yeah... real smart... let's just keep listening to what paid shills tell us are unnaturally good for us and forego any expansion of intelligence on such subjects.

Just a thought, I know... but see how yours are directed to a specific individual and how one should think as opposed to any real thought or addition of intelligence on the subject at hand? Please, vaccinate your children... the depleted consciousness that sweeps our globe makes it easier for those that avoid the toxicities to live free and easier outside the ridiculousness. It becomes easy pickings when time is spent navigating a global adult day care...

a reply to: Agartha

Well, there you go... maybe you found a link within your own study you posted? Great find, but I'd cease at saying 'definitively' not caused by vaccines as these new stats come forth...

apps.who.int...

Notice how Oman does not get the Rotavirus vaccine, while the U.S. has been going steady at it since 2009??? Maybe there's a link there that we're unaware of? Maybe we should include the fact that the study mentions nothing of schedules, dosages, or many other factors that could relate to what is a trigger of autism. Or maybe, we can stretch it to the outermost regions of human compassion and ignore the crime against unconsenting children on the CHANCE that adults have each and every variable possible included as the conclusions drawn?

I'd be fully supportive of these studies and their credibility if there was a conclusion of ASD trigger events, but there is yet for that conclusion to be drawn. There is a central problem of Autism, and repeating ways without allowing a pool of unvaccinated children to live amongst the vaccinated is the pure definition of dancing circles around a problem.

I will never for the life of me understand how such a narrow focus on a few studies can shut the world of possibilities 'off' to so many people on so many levels. It would be one thing to say that an opinionated subject may be 99% right, but to stretch opinion into that 100% range is to remove factors of reality. We might as well be human lab rats under those principles of believing everything that is told to us.

Yes... this is a two way street here. No way should anti-vaxxers say they are 100% right.

Anyway, I just thought I'd thank you for offering something to look into further. I 1st thought the 2 countries would be a tough comparison, but when we look at where the differences live... well, maybe it will lead into further research that actually leads to ASD answers. It's just tough for me to look at a general percentage level and deem it to relate specifically 100% to mean a specific outcome of results... especially when its neurological in nature. Maybe that's why I am always questioning things further? Because, better information usually comes from analyzing differences rather than commonalities... for me at least.

I realize I'm an oddball, and I will question authority and 100% conclusions to verbal opinions. But, for those that don't question in such ways... they usually fail to understand just how much minds that question further are needed. If we all just accepted what we were told by a group that formulate a specific conclusion, then we'd all just listen and do what our superiors told us to, sit quietly and patiently in our provided dwellings, and conform to what we're told to do.

Math is the only true language... words are all but opinion, and NEVER equate to 100%.

a reply to: ttobban

Questioning is good, but the evidence point to vaccines being safe. No other drug have been studied more than vaccines, many trials had samples that range from hundreds of thousands to a million.

I have said this on ATS before: there is no rise in autism, there is earlier and better detection. Let's take the US for example: in the 1980s it was called 'Infantile autism' and could only be diagnosed in children who showed symptoms before they were three years of age. Now it's not 'infantile' anymore, the age and language impairment limits have been removed. This means the number of people that fit into the autism criteria has expanded.

Diagnostic criteria for autism throughout the years.

I don't think you are an oddball at all, we all question authority to one degree or another. You just have to analyze yourself whatever source of information you find (just like I have been doing on these forums). I don't mind giving you my analysis of them, if you want me to.

originally posted by: ttobban

Youtube videos hold absolutely no credence whatsoever.

This is part of the description below the video on VIDEO HIGHLIGHTS

• www.thoughtfulhouseeng.com was where the boy got treatment- Thankfully this doesn't exist anymore
• Dr. Andrew Wakefield was director at that time- he's not licensed to advise nor to perform any medical procedures on anyone anywhere in the world. Neither is he an expert on vaccines or autism, he was an abdominal surgeon who didn't have a paediatric license.
• Boy’s vaccine injury included a perforated gut, which was healed through biomedical treatment- Really? A perforated gut?
• IV Chelation therapy was used to remove heavy metals which cause heavy metal toxicity- IV chelation therapy for heavy metal toxicity is only used in severe cases of acute or chronic exposure to very large amounts. It is absolutely useless and potentially dangerous when not used in these circumstances
• Mercury, aluminum and other heavy metals were in the boy- They will be in all of us too
• IV Chelation therapy created such an improvement that the boy started to speak quickly after the start of the treatment- No time-scale given, probably the boy matured and would have spoken anyway
• Casey had another child, but detoxified her body first- Detoxified how and what exactly? Did she implant another liver and kidney into herself?
• Her second child is vaccine free and healthy- Similar to virtually all vaccinated kids then
• When the immune system is not assaulted, it works great!-How does the immune system work? Think about it
• She suggests parents research vaccine dangers and efficacy-I'd suggest that the vast majority of people are unable to actually understand the real research so they should speak to someone who is qualified and experienced in the field else they may not understand fully.
• Casey opposes mandatory vaccination for many reasons-So do I but probably for different reasons than she does

By the way, I have some magic beans I can sell you...

a reply to: ttobban

They administered chelation therapy to a boy that did not have a high level in the system...?

Do you know how unsafe chelation therapy is? Are you aware it is a last line effort between life and death because the chelation agent can and does cause irreversible organ damage and death itself(and not a rare side effect either)?

There is no chelation agent that does not cause damage during its use - it is not as simple as an agent entering the body and attaching itself to a metal, it is quite very different then that.

Holy hell, I really hope they used an "alternative" chelation agent on the boy - aka, one that has been so diluted that it was only water (homeopathic).

www.fourteenstudies.org...

originally posted by: Conan The Usurper
www.fourteenstudies.org...

If that's your hand, I raise you this...
sciencebasedmedicine.org...

a reply to: Pardon?

The only reason that video was shared was because it is just one example of many, that adverse reactions in children can and do occur as result of vaccines... sometimes swiftly. How the particular case was treated is irrelevant to me, and I stopped paying attention to it after formulating the opinion that mandated vaccines are a crime. The video is about mandated vaccines. Its so weird to me that people always want to see links, and we have thousands of families tell us their experiences, and they go ignored... its a weird trait to end up debating the results and ignore the experiences of these families leading up to the need for therapy... it makes me sad for humanity honestly. To spend time focusing on how to treat the affects of ASD as opposed to some likely causes of ASD to begin with is likely a strong indicator as to why our society allows for ASD to flourish as it does. Our society seemingly wants these things happening... because we've seemingly settled in for the directions we're on...

I realize that there will be a wide array of ways to treat disorders of all sorts, but the wackiest treatment in the world does not offset the reality that these conditions are occurring and causing way more troubles for these affected families than vaccines may be helping in society. Losing sight of the big picture by not agreeing with the selected treatment is to continue to sweep the problems under the rug in my opinion.

Problems don't get healed when the focus' remain in consequence only. A bulk of the epidemics we deal with as a society stem as a result of improper focus of real causes, instead of just consequence. Vaccines don't deal with root cause issues... never did and never will... they're patch repairs, and are far behind the times at best.

To mandate vaccines would be a crime on our youth, and I am glad we can at least agree on that. I don't care what others do with their own freedoms, and I actually prefer that the masses get vaccines. Remove vaccine mandates, and I would likely never speak of vaccines publicly again.

By the way, you're assuming that I took the entire video to equate to my opinion in many premature ways. To read more into a video than another may is one thing, but it seems like your trying to convey thoughts for me that I never even had. Why do your comments always have to be so personal? Either your thinking for me here, or your trying to be condescending. Regardless, I've always thought getting into debates with you was like going back to grade school. Pointless is what I thought of grade school.

originally posted by: ttobban
a reply to: Pardon?


By the way, you're assuming that I took the entire video to equate to my opinion in many premature ways. To read more into a video than another may is one thing, but it seems like your trying to convey thoughts for me that I never even had. Why do your comments always have to be so personal? Either your thinking for me here, or your trying to be condescending. Regardless, I've always thought getting into debates with you was like going back to grade school. Pointless is what I thought of grade school.

I guess that's the problem when you just post a video with absolutely zero commentary from yourself. People are goig to take it that the video is doing your talking for you and expressing your thoughts

originally posted by: ttobban
a reply to: Pardon?

The only reason that video was shared was because it is just one example of many, that adverse reactions in children can and do occur as result of vaccines... sometimes swiftly. How the particular case was treated is irrelevant to me, and I stopped paying attention to it after formulating the opinion that mandated vaccines are a crime. The video is about mandated vaccines. Its so weird to me that people always want to see links, and we have thousands of families tell us their experiences, and they go ignored... its a weird trait to end up debating the results and ignore the experiences of these families leading up to the need for therapy... it makes me sad for humanity honestly. To spend time focusing on how to treat the affects of ASD as opposed to some likely causes of ASD to begin with is likely a strong indicator as to why our society allows for ASD to flourish as it does. Our society seemingly wants these things happening... because we've seemingly settled in for the directions we're on...

I realize that there will be a wide array of ways to treat disorders of all sorts, but the wackiest treatment in the world does not offset the reality that these conditions are occurring and causing way more troubles for these affected families than vaccines may be helping in society. Losing sight of the big picture by not agreeing with the selected treatment is to continue to sweep the problems under the rug in my opinion.

Problems don't get healed when the focus' remain in consequence only. A bulk of the epidemics we deal with as a society stem as a result of improper focus of real causes, instead of just consequence. Vaccines don't deal with root cause issues... never did and never will... they're patch repairs, and are far behind the times at best.

To mandate vaccines would be a crime on our youth, and I am glad we can at least agree on that. I don't care what others do with their own freedoms, and I actually prefer that the masses get vaccines. Remove vaccine mandates, and I would likely never speak of vaccines publicly again.

By the way, you're assuming that I took the entire video to equate to my opinion in many premature ways. To read more into a video than another may is one thing, but it seems like your trying to convey thoughts for me that I never even had. Why do your comments always have to be so personal? Either your thinking for me here, or your trying to be condescending. Regardless, I've always thought getting into debates with you was like going back to grade school. Pointless is what I thought of grade school.

Anyone can say anything about everything on the internet.

If you provide only rhetoric without corroborating and robust evidence then you're going to get called out on it.

BTW
"Vaccines don't deal with root cause issues... never did and never will...
I think you'll find they're one of the few medicines that do exactly that.

And lastly, vaccines don't and never have caused autism.

Former vaccine-believing doctor of pediatrics who now gives up 1.7 million dollars per year by NOT forcing vaccines on his pediatric patients

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Conan The Usurper
Former vaccine-believing doctor of pediatrics who now gives up 1.7 million dollars per year by NOT forcing vaccines on his pediatric patients

www.youtube.com...

Ah yes, The Journal of YouTube. That ol' scholarly resource.


Edit: HAHAHAHA it's literally just some random dude talking. If that is your Plimsoll line for credibility then I have a bridge to sell you.

I got 2 for you and they've been infused with a special liquid. They will never rust, never change color and never need refection either. As long as you keep buying the liquid from me every 5 year or so.

a reply to: Conan The Usurper

fook - your gulibility is astounding

please explain how - when we know the retail cost of each vaccine - exactly how a single doctor can rack up 1.7million profit PA just from vaccines ?

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Haha "doctor"... And I'm an astronaut.