Vaccines again...,

originally posted by: ttobban

www.fairwarning.org...

At a midday news conference Wednesday in front of the red-brick U.S. Court of Federal Claims building in Washington, where the vaccine court hears its cases, authors of the report emphasized that their study was only preliminary. With further research on the more than 2,500 claims that have won compensation in vaccine court, they said, more evidence of inoculation-related autism would be certain to turn up.

In addition to those 32 examples, there were 51 cases in which parents interviewed by the researchers said their child’s vaccine injury led to “an autism diagnosis, autistic features or autistic-like behaviors.” A key similarity among the 83 successful claims identified, which produced more than $96.7 million in settlements and awards, is that the families did not assert that autism was their child’s primary injury.

The study was done in 2011 and it was never followed up by the authors, perhaps because people who can actually understand studies know they did not discover anything that links vaccines to autism. Let's see the numbers in the study you posted:

-20 years of data
-2500 vaccine injury compensations
-83 children had autistic symptoms of which only 39 were diagnosed with autism.
-So 39 out of 2500 is approx. 1.6% of those compensated which is the percentage we see in the general population (the other 44 were never diagnosed, it was just parents saying they had autism like symptoms).

The study you posted does not show any evidence between autism and vaccines. It doesn't matter whether you go on a three pages rant or if you write it all in 'scary' capital letters, numbers do not change and in this case numbers show vaccines are safe.

What about unvaccinated children with autism? There are a few studies showing unvaccinated children have the same rate of autism as vaccinated. For example in Japan the MMR was stopped due to unfounded antivaxx fears but autism rates did not drop, and at least 170 children were found to have autism and were not vaccinated -- LINK --.

Another one:

Rates of autism diagnosis does not differ between immunized and non-immunized siblings.

I can post more if you want. There is no difference between the rates of autism between vaccinated and unvaccinated children. So please stop the fearmongering based on you not understanding studies.

Or show good evidence I can analyze and discuss.

a reply to: ttobban
My mother trusted the demi-gods in white coats. They assured her that if she took this little DES pill while she was pregnant with me she would have a much easier time of it. Indeed, she did. After an uneventful pregnancy I was delivered without incident, a bouncing baby girl. It wasn't until about 14 years later that the effects of that "miracle drug" she had been given began to show up.

I went into the field of medicine to seek answers and to try to put those answers to work for others. Ten years later I took off the white coat after realizing that what I was doing was causing a whole lot of harm. A lot of branches of modern medicine are gloriously wonderful. But the pharmaceutical world isn't one of them.

I know what it's like to deal with issues over which you had no control. Issues that huge corporate interests don't want publicized. Because they aren't publicized, lots of people suffer needlessly.

In a free society the citizens are free to chose how to treat their bodies. Only slaves are treated against their will.

a reply to: diggindirt

Well, I feel deep empathy for the lives of families that were negatively affected by the use of vaccines. I just wish humanity as a whole was able to look past the OBVIOUS under utilized testing on vaccines, and implement care for fellow humans in their thought processing.

Take a look at the rebuttal I received for posting a study about 'special court' rewarding millions of dollars for what vaccines caused. The rebuttal is getting all hung up on Autism specifically, while ignoring the many many other negative consequences that may occur from criminally injecting innocent youth with toxins, without consent. The ICD-9 medical system is prepped to show how many side affects can occur as a result of vaccines, which means they are legally prepared to meet the negative sides of vaccines... an admission of guilt per se. I posted the millions of dollars in rewards as an indication that there's OBVIOUSLY admitted negative affects to vaccines, which is just another check in the "DON"T USE'' column. Why does the support side of the debate always single their views into needing concrete evidence, while ignoring the many motives/scenarios we see as a negative aspect to vaccines? It's like the show gets stopped to point out any single benefit of vaccines, while ignoring multiple streams of vaccine risk... medicated and numb is what I call it.

Seriously, vaccine supporters will have to be injected with Autism itself to be convinced that negative affects of vaccines MAY/MAY NOT cause neurological malfunctions... just pure craziness. And, the craziest part to me is that the crime on children is ignored, simply to feel more settled within themselves and their possible relations with microorganisms.

I replied to you, because as I said before, it's pointless to debate with vaccine supporters. Read back through my recent posts... I purposely went out of my way to focus on the vaccine crimes of mandated vaccines on innocent youth. What do I get in return? The same ole stories... ''go and prove Autism is caused by vaccines, because you can't." Well, it's a two way street there... vaccine supporters don't have undeniable proof that vaccines don't cause Autism. Meanwhile back on the global ranch, Autism secretly destroys lives by unknown reasons. So, supporters simply ignore all of the red flags and warrnings along the way, and still support mandated vaccines... to each their own, but one side is no better than the other. Vaccine supporters don't deserve to tell free citizens how and when to vaccine their children... those who forego vaccines for their children are playing a game of chance, just like the vaccine worshippers.

The biggest problems with vaccines are the supporters of them, because they endorse criminally injecting children with toxins without consent. How they correlate to humans, both mentally and physically, are really just a side affect of criminal activity. It's time people feel guilt for robbing youth of potential toxic-free internals. It's clear that the medical community and supporters of vaccines don't feel any guilt as they unknowingly risk the adult lives of humans, while in a state of infancy... that burden of guilt should be passed onto the people that allowed influence of economy to mandate required health measures.

It's like voting... many will tell people that they don't deserve a say if they didn't vote. Meanwhile, voters are stuck in a red/blue system... thinking that there is only one way or the other. Voters blame politicians, while forgetting that voters put these people into position to speak on behalf of all citizens. Voters are to blame... not the policy makers. As for vaccines, its the same scenario. Users of vaccines and those who allow forced vaccines on the innocent lives of nervous parents are to blame here... not the unwilling vaccine sectors. Vaccine supporters, please vaccine away with freedom and free will... but leave the non-supporters alone. Adults are forgetting here that they're putting their learned prejudices to act to practice, and all the while innocent children don't have a say in these matters.

INJECTING CHILDREN WITH TOXINS IS A CRIME... DESERVINGLY OWN THE GUILT OF CHILD CRIMES IF VACCINES ARE SUPPORTED ABOVE VACCINE SYSTEM OVERHAUL.

originally posted by: ttobban
INJECTING CHILDREN WITH TOXINS IS A CRIME... DESERVINGLY OWN THE GUILT OF CHILD CRIMES IF VACCINES ARE SUPPORTED ABOVE VACCINE SYSTEM OVERHAUL.

I AM GUILTY OF ALLOWING CHILDREN AND MY OWN CHILDREN TO BE INJECTED WITH A TOXIN THAT SAVES THEIR LIVES.

Better, I admitted my guilt, however oddly enough I did not feel bad in the first place, nor am I now.

Lots of words you write, but it lacks all substance.

I find it odd that you want children to give permission to be injected with "toxins" (water is a toxin, that means we can't hook up a saline drip to a dehydrated baby), would that also mean we cannot treat a 1-2 year old who requires hospital treatment from a rusty nail going through the foot that becomes infected, and we cannot administer a tetanus shot (a vaccination - one that would be required from the start anyway, ironic) or antibiotics to save the life of that child as it does not have the ability to speak/give permission yet?

a reply to: Agartha

You are stuck in the Autism/vaccine relationship solely, and you're going to be there for all of time, so your debates are nothing but the only repeatable script that vaccine supporters dwell on.

Have you ever thought of metal toxicity being ingested by multiple environmental sources, possibly leading to each unique human's unique threshold levels to play out? Maybe there's Mercury and Aluminum in the local water supply, and the vaccine was just enough to tip the toxicity levels to an undesired consequence? Study it all you want, but we're still playing with a system that is incapable of operating with 100% effectiveness on both the positive and negative scales. Put all the control groups into the equation you'd like, because it still does not fit what happens in the real world... that is for both sides fo the debate.

You are living a dream of which you feel that metal toxicity in children is purely determined by vaccines, and it only leads others to feel that all angles of vaccine negativity are ignored by those who wish to mandate vaccines. It's like epidemics showing forth are causing the masses to want to pump the brakes on vaccines as we try to learn more, while policy makers are trying to get as many injected as possible.

You want evidence, I know... but its going to require a bit of common sense being used to add all the variables up to hint to the intuition that, "something isn't right here". You don't get that "something isn't right here" feeling, so debating with you is pointless. As I stated prior, the consequences of vaccines are minute in comparison to the fact that adults who inject unconsenting innocent youth with toxic metals should be considered a felony.

Get out of the 'studies' mindset and think for yourself... please. It's embarrassing to see adults condone felony's on behalf on medical institutions. Did you watch the Senate hearing posted a few pages back, where the CDC vaccine supporter dances around the benefits and small knowledge base of vaccine questions... it's essentially a guilty conscious representing USD for big pharma, and removal of sensible debate. Well, that's what your arguments compares to... a guilty conscious that is trying to find comfort with the reality that deep down the conscious has no choice but to ignore the feelings of empathy towards negative affects of vaccines... all to keep the dollars flowing and bosses happy. Like I said before, nobody cares how much one knows when they know how much one cares. Regardless, it's undeniable that children don't deserve to be put through the cattle pronging of toxic metals by adults who feel they know better than others... parents deserve the right to parent as they see fit.

a reply to: MuonToGluon

Look, your words and my words live on different planets. We find different meaning with words, and I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with your choices... I advocate for parents to choose what they wish. For instance, you said you allowed for policy to administer vaccines to your children. You also said that you saved their lives by doing so? Well, I don't have to think hard to understand that your child likely would not have died if you opted out... but it's your freedom as a parent to be as nervous and scared of life as you wish.

I agree, water can be a toxin, and it's part of the reason I don't support vaccines. Maybe one child got all the Aluminum they need already to prevent 'INSERT AILMENT HERE', and it's dragging the child through a set of vaccines that is the trigger level for harm to set in? You are admitting that, just as I am here. How that toxicity levels have different thresholds in each of us as humans shouldn't be ignored? I'm not saying a vaccine is the cause 100% of the time... I feel it's toxicity levels within the body and the tolerance of the body that determine's negative outcomes. I am not claiming I know the answer, but I am claiming that the vaccine supporters don't know the answer either. For all we know, infants rub up on our deodorant while feeding, and the Aluminum is being absorbed that way???

To ignore the possible variables to settle the nerves of nervous parents and government entities is the sheeple mentality at it's finest. I don't need or want concrete proof like you supporters want... I merely want the closed minded views of vaccine supporters to be refrained from mandating vaccines on innocent youth. You do what you want with your child, and I will proceed with the same.

Seriously... use some logic here, please. Maybe all that's needed pre-vaccines is a pre-test to determine what is present within the child already? Because the links are not 100% known, it makes absolutely no sense to just trust what we're told, on the off chance one or a few kids gets the measles. It's just bad math and or empathy towards humans outside our own family to ignore the paths to learning more about vaccines and their relevancy in our lives.

The point and shoot mentality of vaccines is an elementary one. From your position, it sounds like a good idea to ignore the individual that's being vaccinated. You're also twisting plots together again... much like you did with weed prior. You can't relate treating a disorder/condition to a vaccine... vaccine's are a voluntary/preventative measure.

It's one thing to offer advice on vaccines and maybe explain the benefits as vaccine administrators, but it's a far over-stretch of a small group's beliefs to implement a mandated system of youth crimes.

if it's examples you need, I will list one. Take Aspirin for instance. Aspirin is taken as a preventative measure to blood ailments. Well, it's starting to show that daily users of Aspirin have large increased chances of strokes. From your perspective, a few at risk people should mandate that all adults take aspirin on the off chance that heart disease is communicable. Ignore the people that are at higher risk of stroke because Bill Nye the science guy hasn't provided the concrete evidence that the increased number of strokes is a reality? Add that these decisions are made on behalf of unsuspecting innocent youth makes it an atrocity... if we were talking about injecting adults, I'd just chalk it up to yet another brain dead concept and plan of adults who are scared to die.

To set the record straight, I do not oppose vaccines. I also feel that Autism is more likely more genetic in nature, than it is to be caused purely through vaccines. It's not an often debated topic, but I theorize that synthetic molecule consumption is adapting our DNA/RNA structure to accommodate for the increased ingress of synthetics. And, just like one's DNA structure can have an imbalance chromosome pairing and lead one in life to be susceptible to numerous ailments, there's a clear influx of children being born that past generations did not experience. Diseases enter when paired chromosomes aren't matched... plain and simple. The trigger points for Autism spectrum disorders can be triggered by many sources I feel, and vaccines may only be a small portion of trigger points. The rise and epidemic status of Autism is at extreme levels... it's real folks, and a horrible dilemma.

People aren't deserving of a vaccine policy system to become mandated, while ignoring the opportunities to improve knowledge paths on real world test scenarios. If supporters want concrete proof of links, then at least allow for a significantly sized populous base to be free of vaccines. The supporters constantly bark about needing proof, all while pushing to mandate that a solid test base of vaccine-free people get denied access to even the chances to learn more about synthetic human ingress. Citizens/parents only have the rights to impose such things on their personal boundaries and borders... beyond that, an individual's thoughts on vaccines are worthless.

I personally just want a few of the vaccines removed from the growing list... and for the program to remain 'VOLUNTARY ONLY.' It should not be an all or nothing program... it should be nothing more than ala carte, and individually selective beyond that. If a committee keeps up on health trends, addresses an epidemic, and mandates a specific vaccine to combat a temporary crisis... I support that. For instance, that committee, IMMEDIATELY, should be locked in a room to determine how to handle the Autism crisis. We don't ever hear about them launching an Autism vaccine, do we??? That's right, they don't... because even the experts have no clue what they're talking about, or even a solid plan in place to combat a health epidemic.

Look at all the obese people in the U.S.! Instead of filling our shelves with healthy foods and education our public servants allowed for a completely synthetic dietary system that allows people to satisfy their sweet tooth addictions, all while turning their internals into a synthetic cess pool. These are usually the people ordering diet soft drinks with their extra cheese and pepperoni pizzas. It's so ridiculous now, that one can get they're stomach cut in half and or a pump installed in their digestive tract... so life can be mended to live in an ignorance infused mindset. Healing tactics and strategies are seldom offered a fair shake within policy standards to combat the synthetic ignorance of policy makers. There's example after example of how policy making steers in the exact opposite approach of what natural paths strive for... vaccines are just one of the many examples.

What we as adults are passing onto future generations is literally the movie 'Idiocracy' playing out to be a science fiction story instead of fiction. The influencers and policy makers that the masses cling to envy are, more times than not, swaying and or moving policy to fit the personal goals or the goals of a small group of enablers. Pedophile's are found in Catholic church's because they're a haven to keep pedophiles safe. The internet was purposely made to allow for trafficking black market goods and people, when it should have been used to catch these people. When their policy's creep into an innocent's childs toxin exposure by a paid/influenced physician injecting them with guesstimations, then I have a problem with that. It's one thing for adults to be pretty much forced into a bunch of policy decisions that promote tyranny, but to force those values on unsuspecting child victims is just pathetic.

I support a vaccine waiver system too. If you want all the vaccines administered to your child, than tax payers should not be legally obligated to pay for any association of the decision. It should be two fold though... if an adult chooses one vaccine at a time or opts of of particular vaccines, then the subject should not be financially assisted with any ailments that are on the list of ailments advised. See what I'm doing here? I'm offering up new and OPTIONAL paths to debate when it comes to the ridiculous vaccine program we utilize now. Whether I'm right or wrong is irrelevant to where we should go forward as a whole. I'm not trying to go back in time, figure out all the variables and 'what if's', requiring that the absolute answer that doesn't exist (at least yet) come to fruition before I stop a fully mandated menu of required immunizations.

Remove the MMR and Mercury from the list, and most people would shut up about vaccines for a while... at least I would I know. It might come across as fear mongering, but these words are not such... it's adding additional paths to the mix that's offered, because the path we're on is not the correct one. Debate should be moving us forward... not sending us backwards to point fingers at who is right and who is wrong. We're all wrong here, whether we like to admit it or not. Such cases calls for the opening of channels for future generations to better decide for themselves, because we're a lost cause here. If one feels to be the victim of fear mongering among words here, than it's only because they've lived in that fearful/entitled existence for a large portion of time from the past, up to now. New ideas, learning, and experimenting with ways to address global health crisis' should be looked at as credible debate... only those that are victims of fear mongering by policy standards are revoking my input as credible.

I agree, if it isn't broke... don't fix it. The problem with vaccines, is that it's still trying to be determined if vaccines are helping or eroding society. We might not know where the primary leak is, but its tough to deny that good measures are leaking somewhere outside the paths we stroll on. Repair is required... to deny that is to bring light to the fact that fear mongering has lived in one's life long before any added words of debate are offered. Honestly, it's the exact principles that feed the desire to vaccinate all children to begin with.

We live in the Hypochondriac generation... thriving on Purell and fear. The saddest and most wussy generation the Earth has ever experienced. I'd gladly die today if it stopped Autism tomorrow. And, here I am debating with people that aren't even willing to get a case of the chicken pox to stop Autism... just waiting for science and policy to provide the elongated life provided within it's real fear mongering ideals.

The only reason I type these words is to wipe my conscious clear of moral staining that's pushed on people by policy makers and influencers. It's for principle's of karma mainly... not so much that I want my words and thoughts to become the mainstay of reflection for all. I've long felt that we live in an overly medicated world these days, which comes with terms that sober debating becomes less and less the common forum. Time to act... not debate...

originally posted by: ttobban
a reply to: Agartha

You are stuck in the Autism/vaccine relationship solely, and you're going to be there for all of time, so your debates are nothing but the only repeatable script that vaccine supporters dwell on.

I am not stuck on anything, I know the autism-vaccine relation is non-existent but I talked about it because you posted an article showing an alleged correlation between them.

Remove the MMR and Mercury from the list, and most people would shut up about vaccines for a while, at least I know I would.

There is NO Mercury in children's vaccines, at all, not since 1993. NIL. Some have mentioned the flu jab containing thimerosal but you can choose one without it. See my link on page 6. So since it's been removed I guess you will not complain about non existent 'heavy metals' in vaccines anymore?

Have you ever thought of metal toxicity being ingested by multiple environmental sources, possibly leading to each unique human's unique threshold levels to play out? Maybe there's Mercury and Aluminum in the local water supply, and the vaccine was just enough to tip the toxicity levels to an undesired consequence?

We can forget about Mercury as it's not in vaccines, so let's talk about Aluminum. First of all the aluminum in vaccines is NOT a heavey metal, it's a salt which is also not readily bioavailable, which mean retention is extremely low (I can explain the process if you want). When injected, 50% is excreted within 24 hours and 99.999% within 2 weeks. LINK 1 - LINK 2 - LINK 3.

The only way you could get aluminum toxicity is if you have acute renal failure (as the kidneys excrete it) or with an intravenous infusion (and we are talking about pumping litres of the stuff to cause damage).

In the US (in 2015) there were 17 cases of poisoning with aluminum as a possible contributor, but if you read the data it was never aluminum hydroxide (the salt used in vaccines), it was aluminum sulfate.

2015 Annual report of the American Association of Poison Control...

Maybe all that's needed pre-vaccines is a pre-test to determine what is present within the child already?

As you should know being an ex-medical professional, hair test for aluminum is not reliable (as it never matches levels in the body) and blood tests are irrelevant as the element never stays in the bloodstream. The only way to test for aluminum toxicity is with bone biopsy. Would you really subject babies and children to such invasive and painful procedure?

I am surprised you would even consider that, seeing as you are an ex-medical professional.

I had a vision of vaccines carrying nanotechnology and when someone was non compliant the nanoparticles would activate to form a heart attack or stroke,then dissasemble leaving the autopsy as death by natural causes needless to say I will use lethal force on anyone trying to inject me.

originally posted by: khnum
I had a vision of vaccines carrying nanotechnology and when someone was non compliant the nanoparticles would activate to form a heart attack or stroke,then dissasemble leaving the autopsy as death by natural causes needless to say I will use lethal force on anyone trying to inject me.

You should seek professional help.

a reply to: Agartha

The OP made pretty much the same points I make and way back on page 1 or 2 you're doing the same thing. While people are saying do whatever the hell you want with vaccines, you supporters are dragging it into debates on their toxicity. It's called trolling, and there's a couple of you here that are master trollers, and expecting the debate to shift.

The point of the thread is to open eyes and make people become informed that the state and government does not own or have rights to the flesh and blood of our children as they may like to think. Maybe you supporters are fine handing your children's futures over to the state, but not everyone should be dragged through the same fearful pressure that supporters want pushed on all children.

The fear levels are just laughable. If you're kids are vaccinated, then they should not be affected by anyone that's unvaccinated... so stop the mandated vaccines. Get hung up on the metals all you want... people that are making the points I am already been through the sources you live in, and those sources don't talk about keeping your damn fears and shots away from kids that aren't yours... we're doing that here, and the metal levels are all you can focus on. Pointless to debate with you as I said before.

See, your debates are displayed to take some research from the patient pool, throw a few stats in there, profess your medical experience, and hope people still feel the state and medical community will always know more then anyone else that didn't commit to medicine as a career path. Well, only 1 in 8 doctors are trained in natural health, while every single doctor is trained in medicine. You're committed and passionate, we get it. But, what you're failing to understand here is that the general consensus on doctors is that they operate through the eyes of medicine, and that they shouldn't be trusted above our own individual research and freedoms. Doctors are like the car dealerships anymore... just a bunch of over-charging crooks that feel their better then the rest of the repair facilities around. Your debates fall into the same feeling... it's like you're trying to defend your career path, and are incapable of seeing anything negative in your ways, being that so much effort and time went into your research. You seemingly know more than you care, and that aspect of medical professionals is EXACTLY what drives patients away... just a bunch of pill pushers that operate legally and claim good is coming of it. People should be thinking and learning on their own... maybe taking some stats you supporters dwell on, but filing it the brain as smart input that could really give two flying funks about people that are negatively affected by what is a preventative measure to begin with.

Hopefully you start addressing the aspects of this debate that you aren't financially tied to. You have yet to do so in 10 pages, so why stop now. Please, educate us more oh smart one... tell us about how the levels of injecting innocent kids with guesswork is the same for all of the millions of kids, with no chance of real world scenarios making puny case studies actually relevant.

Beware of Doctors folks... they care more about how to mandate crimes, and they will never ever think anything that's worth learning can stem from a source that a medical professional didn't write. If they're here on this site trying to educate you, it's most likely to keep you going back... it's surely not a presence to debate all sides of the debate.

Go back and read the thread from the beginning folks... the evidence of vaccine supporters pulling the debate from the main points of 'THINK FOR YOURSELVES PARENTS' into 'vaccine toxicity levels are as toxic as you think'. Time and time again, you'll here supporters say, well you mentioned a metal in a small talking point and you don't know what a paid professional will ever know, so listen to what I have to say about metal toxicity. All the while, the MAIN points of, not trusting what doctor's tell you and believing that we as parents have more rights to our children's flesh and blood than the state or government should, are absolutely ignored or barely addressed at best.

I said it a few times before and I'll say it again... metal toxicity in vaccines flail in comparison to the fact that the victims of these shots have no consent or input into getting them. I'd advise parents to start making those decisions, and to give less credit to what the paid shills are pushing on you and into you.

www.statista.com...

So, we're just supposed to believe all you doctors tell us, ignore that it's a money system as a priority to being a people system, and let you profit dirt bags advise as what our children MAY be involved with in vaccines? If a doctor's first question to you is not, "how much water do you drink?", turn around and find one that asks that question first... they are less likely to be turned into a pill pushing operative. The human being species as a whole is not being birthed as beings that will die or infect all within the first few years of life, and that's exactly how the medical community treats children. There is no other motives but financial to have prescription numbers go from totalling in the 100,000's in the 70's, to well over 200 MILLION prescriptions a year now. All humans are born and they die... all the pill pushers are doing is trying to move the law of averages to a synthetic standard on the off chance overall life expectancy's increase as a whole. So what if the average life is pushed up a few months or years... we're still going to die. And, it's just plain retarded mind usage to feel these children owe the state their own rights to mature as beings that put what they choose to put into them. This mongoloid mentality of injecting fear, let alone a substance into a virgin human being for self serving purposes makes me sick to my stomach.

originally posted by: ttobban
a reply to: Agartha

The OP made pretty much the same points I make and way back on page 1 or 2 you're doing the same thing. While people are saying do whatever the hell you want with vaccines, you supporters are dragging it into debates on their toxicity.

What??? The OP wrote about 'killer ingredients in vaccines' and you talked about heavy metal intoxications, so I responded to that. You two talked about toxicity and I replied. So you are allowed to rant about metals in vaccines but I am not allowed to reply to you about them? Sorry, but that's not how forum works. Perhaps I should ask a moderator to help you understand what we are all meant to do here.

It's called trolling, and there's a couple of you here that are master trollers, and expecting the debate to shift.

Well, typical, when oil snake salesmen cannot debunk what others have said they start calling names. Slander is the tool of the looser, pal. Instead of discussing my replies to YOURposts, you are just making it about me, you are just writing a nonsensical rant that's full of hate.

The fear levels are just laughable. If you're kids are vaccinated, then they should not be affected by anyone that's unvaccinated...

Wow, your ignorance is top level. It's not about protecting vaccinated children, you genius, is about protecting those that cannot be vaccinated. Let me repost once again what you should know already, seeing as you are an ex medical professional (yeah right):

Despite of what quacks say, herd immunity works when rate is above 95% and other people's children rely on our children to help them stay safe, for the following reasons (which I have posted on ATS before):

1) Vaccines (just like all drugs/contraception/etc) are not 100% effective, they are very effective, some more than others (on average they are between 90-100%).

2) Some children cannot be immunized, for various reasons, for example having severe allergies to a component, being too young, etc.

3) For some children vaccines will not work as effectively because of their immune system is weaker, for example some children with cancer, HIV etc.

The children in points 2 and 3 rely on our children to be vaccinated, because contagious diseases will have more difficulty reaching them if they are surrounded with people who are immune.

Doctors are like the car dealerships anymore... just a bunch of over-charging crooks that feel their better then the rest of the repair facilities around. Hopefully you start addressing the aspects of this debate that you aren't financially tied to.

1) I live in the UK where immunization is not compulsory, it's a choice.
2) Doctors in the UK don't charge, they are free for all, we have what all Western countries (except the US) have: socialized universal healthcare. It's a wonderful thing.
3) You sound so resentful and jealous of those who actually managed to complete their medical training. Next you'll probably tell pilots how to fly better and architects how to improve their buildings.
4) I am not a doctor

I said it a few times before and I'll say it again... metal toxicity in vaccines flail in comparison to the fact that the victims of these shots have no consent or input into getting them.

Moving goalposts once more, not surprised.

Looking forward to your next reply to me, where you will NOT try to refute any of my statements, again.. you will simply make a long rant about doctors and shills and other stuff that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

originally posted by: ttobban
It's called trolling, and there's a couple of you here that are master trollers, and expecting the debate to shift.

Ahem, you better not be including me in there - Raggedyman and myself came to a slight understanding between ourselves a couple pages back, and all through out this entire forum we have never ever came eye to eye at all on anything at all.

You need to pick your words better, trolling is not what we are doing, at all!

You are doing exactly the same as we are arguing your side,and we are arguing our side, if you are calling people trolls, you are doing and acting the exact same.

Stop it with the accusations and slander, the emotions are without merit.

a reply to: Agartha

www.naturalnews.com...

traceamounts.com...

See, what you're doing on this thread is trying to mask the main crime, by using stats that you're so wrapped up in, that it's all you want to talk about. Let's go back to the OP's 1st 2 sentnces, shall we?

Just recently read a great article on vaccines, worth sharing I think. I believe it should be a parents right to choose if they do or dont vaccinate

The OP goes on to tell you that were sucked into the stat vacuum to do whatever the hell you want with your kids. The OP also says the same things I am saying... that a group of people here are trying to assume a few links require the stat machine and all who invest into is required. The OP said to decide for yourself, learn for yourself, and move on with your life. The OP gave up because you trolls are stuck on stats, and are even looking to me now to fall into the troll bait.

I agree with the OP, don't trust what people tell you, learn for yourself, and move on with your life. I see you even dragged the other troll back into it. The Australian who sold out and won't debate because laws on the way to save the fearful. Australia by the way, who's leaders wife is directly tied to big pharm. Honestly, it's just another pointless debate with you trolls. The fact of the matter is, I will decide as a parent what is injected into my child... nothing more/nothing less. Why would you think I give two spits to debate with the specifics you dwell on, when you aren't even going to get passed being able to make an appointment to inject my child. You trolls are using the same fear tactics that got vaccines to be so prevalent to begin with. I'm sorry that you feel it's running from debate, when it's pretty much a stance of mine to not negotiate with terrorists. Excuse me... I meant trolls.

a reply to: MuonToGluon

Just had to come back to rewrite this post. I should not be going backwards in time over and over here... I prefer to go forward. I realized the initial post was nothing more than falling into traps. With you, it's just best we take our opinions off to the different planets our minds live in.

After each of these troll battles, I have to respond to the actual topic... it's like I'm defending the OP here by myself, and I'm starting to see why a general comment about a sensitive subject can keep people wanting to fight over stupid metals in vaccines can cause an OP to run for the hills. The OP stopped debating the trolls, because they are off topic. Being the OP was just trying to share a few thoughts and say 'think for yourselves', he ran for the hills because people want him to prove that the links are the end all /be all answer. Meanwhile, those who are worried about metals are as invasive as the vaccine mandates that are being pushed on people.

I made opinions and will continue to make opinions that mandated vaccines on innocent youth is a crime. Every single other aspect about vaccines falls to be less relevant or irrelevant. The state does not own right to our children. The vaccine supporters are essentially like the people in the 90's who fought to smoke at their public eating tables. Remember, they didn't care if a few people got inflicted by second hand smoke so long as they could enjoy their meal with a cancer stick. They knew deep down that it was bad for even them, but they went and did it anyway. Because the levels of toxins is cigarettes is acceptable, the crimes of exposing toxins to innocents was ignored.

That's all this is folks... opinions that we should not force innocent kids to be subjected to the synthetic choices of adults without consent. Imagine if we let the cigarette smokers smoke in public still... just accepting that improvements never need to be made. The vaccine administrators are essentially smoking cigarettes in a day care facility... offering to combat the unknowns with toxins that are not to worry about... because tobacco is a stress relief and may or may not kill the unknown while it's working.

If we let them mandate vaccines, the free will of the people goes away with it... plain and simple. To hell with all your metal stats... it's a puny aspect in a grand epidemic.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Where'd you go OP? Can you please, once more, explain to these people that this thread was never intended to get into the debate of toxic metal stats?

Non-stop with the "refute that, can't do, can't prove, you don't know as much as me" bickering. Thank goodness I am only talking in the last few threads I subscribed to and don't read new threads, because it's this mentality that keeps me from opening new chapters here at ATS. It's like adult day care around here anymore...

originally posted by: ttobban
To set the record straight, I do not oppose vaccines. I also feel that Autism is more likely more genetic in nature, than it is to be caused purely through vaccines. .

Autism has increased radically in frequency from about 1/2500 to around 1/50 from the early 70's until now. That is NOT compatible with a primarily genetic problem. Certainly some genetic heritages may be more prone to toxins introduced in to the environment.

This site addresses the serious flaws in the studies that have been adduced as evidence that vaccines do not cause autism:
vaccinepapers.org...

It also addresses the concerns around alminium in vaccines:
vaccinepapers.org...
The first paper is highly significant:
vaccinepapers.org...

and most recently we have this:
childhealthsafety.wordpress.com... rug-safety-regulators-had-the-information-for-over-2-years-and-let-children-die/

This is based on data that was provided by Merck to regulatory authorities in Belgium. Hidden part way through the 1271 page document is a table that very clearly documents the much higher rate of SIDS in the 10 days following vaccination with Infanrix Hexa. (97% of all cases of sudden infant death occurred in the 10 days posy vaccination, and in the remaining 50 days before the next vaccination- only 3% of cases occurred.

As I said, the data was buried and not reported on. The 1271 page document delivered by Merck was supposed to be confidential between Merck and the Brussels office (EU I guess), but the Italian magistrate dealing with this complaint was so incensed that he released it to the public.

Now the point is that we very rarely get to see the raw data that is referred to in scientific studies- and as soon as we get the data-we see serious problems.

Re the Autism question- it remains live- though the other strong contender for that problem is glyphosate residues in food. The studies done have not been a true vax-unvax study, and there are a number of biases that need to be considered- notably "Healthy User Bias" as referenced in Vaccinepapers.org. The studies have also failed to account for the probability that regressive autism may come on slowly after several vaccines and not be temporally related to a specific vaccine.

It is also not as though doing a vax unvax study would be impossible. About 2% of Australian families are strictly non vax- and it would not be impossible to do a retrospective study on those children so long as an adequate control group was formulated. So the idea that it would be unethical to do such a study is absurd. The data is already there - just waiting to be collected. The Immunisation register in Australia is robust enough to select suitable subjects tomorrow if the Government wanted to-- but they don't. Maybe that is because they are afraid of what the study would show?

The most dramatic example I know of is a family of 8 children where the older 6 kids were all vaccinated and all have autism or ADHD, but the parents refused to vaccinate the last 2- and they are both healthy with no neurobehavioural disorders.

Regardless of that we now have solid evidence of high levels of aluminium uptake in to the brain following vaccination (much higher in the small doses in vaccines- larger doses cause an inflammatory granuloma and less reaches the brain and is still there 6 months later. We have evidence that this cerebral uptake causes microglial inflammation and an Interleukin6 pattern of immune activation- both of which are associated with the sort of inflammatory encephalopathy that is being seen in autism.

To round it all off the aluminium - alzheimers association has been resurrected and it is now pretty clear that aluminium overload is necessary for Alzheimers.

-- and that is before we even look at any of the other excipients.

Of course- further science may emerge- but there is very good reason to believe that vaccines may be far more risky than we have previously understood. They are probably causing problems at a far higher rate than the diseases we are immunising against (Exception- I would have rabies shots if going trekking in remote areas in Asia).

There is certainly not enough evidence to compel vaccination either by mandate or by coercion (restricting government benefits).

I would not want the rabies vaccine near me or my veins, even after bitten by a wild whatever.

www.vaclib.org...