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Vaccines again...,

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posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: MotherMayEye

And what about the children who were permanently crippled or even died from Polio? What about them? The ones that spent their last days in an iron lung (if they were lucky), for example?

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for parents who endanger the children of others due to their own willful ignorance/stupidity. Don't like it? Go find a private school or home school your children.


Well, I guess no child should have been able to go to public school, back then, because none of them were vaccinated?

I don't believe for a moment you honestly believe that. Parents, in the past, felt education was important enough to send their unvaccinated kids to school with other unvaccinated kids because education is that important.

Considering your position, I think the best you can hope to do is try to educate parents who don't vaccinate with information that brings them TO your ideas, not alienate them and suggest punishing their kids. Address their concerns as if they were actual adults, don't insult them like you are a perfect vessel of all knowledge.

I don't think your approach is anything but a knee-jerk reaction to the exercise of other parents' personal freedoms which you don't like...and you are exploiting fear, bullying, and hoping the punishment of their children will persuade them.

Why should any anti-vax parent be persuaded that YOU have the best intentions in mind when you advocate for vaccinations for their children?

I value my personal freedoms as a parent, and my children's, MORE than I fear the risk of someone infecting them with diseases from which they have been vaccinated.

I am grateful there are parents who will fight for the right to choose to not vaccinate....even if I chose differently than them.



edit on 8/11/2017 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

Well, I guess no child should have been able to go to public school, back then, because none of them were vaccinated?



Don't be so ridiculous.

"Why wasn't it illegal to wear seatbelts before seat belts were invented?"

Excellent display of anti-vax logic.


I don't believe for a moment you honestly believe that. Parents, in the past, felt education was important enough to send their unvaccinated kids to school with other unvaccinated kids because education is that important.


And luckily the overwhelming majority of citizens feel that the health of children is more important than the education of the children of ignorant luddites.
edit on 11-8-2017 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 07:02 PM
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originally posted by: GetHyped

And luckily the overwhelming majority of citizens feel that the health of children is more important than the education of the children of ignorant luddites.



Disagree...I vaccinate my children and don't feel unvaccinated children at their schools pose any significant threat simply because they are unvaccinated but otherwise healthy. In fact, I feel unvaccinated, but otherwise healthy, oppressed & ostracized children who are deprived of an education as punishment for their parents' exercise of their personal freedoms to not vaccinate, pose more of a threat to society.

I think your 'solution' to deprive access to education is fascist, archaic, cruel, and barbaric.

edit on 8/11/2017 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 09:29 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

There's no way you're going to get any of your common sense to sink in here... it's a lost cause. You are 111% right... it is an extreme overstretch of owed care and or concern for the children of others that repulses me nearly as much as the concept of vaccines being so trusted itself. No longer are people satisfied with keeping worries to within their own families and boundaries... they feel that every single free person must conform to their fears and worries. These aspects are the single biggest reasons for our societal decay, and debating with sheeple tends to be a lost cause. I and many others highly value your empathy being applied to logic here... even though it may never be felt and or seen by the vaccination supporters.

Think about it, getting vaccines are administered to remove the fears and worries of contracting a particular disease. Therefore, if another parent chooses to not vaccinate their child, it's going to the hypochondriac status to worry that vaccinated children's less then 1% chance of catching an ailment from the less then 1% un-vaccinated youth pool might inflict harm on a fearful parents life. Good lord... how much worrying for the masses are we going to keep allowing... it's a joke and pathetic?

Use common sense people, if ailments that are progressing in current times are escalating, and not a single side knows the definitive proof, wouldn't it make sense to allow a pool of un-vaccinated people to monitor if Autism rates and other ailments drop naturally??? That would be the so called "control group" that is causing such a huff and puff. To sit back, pretty much force feed vaccines, while seeing Autism rates spike at alarming levels, and trust what we're told by policy makers is the pure definition of societal decay. Sheeple are so in need of knowing the exact right answer before moving forward, that it only leaves that comparing varied sources will never be implemented. It's like voting only red/blue, when there's way more options... well, red/blue voters feel the only way out is through red/blue... beating their own heads against the wall.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 09:32 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Thankfully the law is not on your side.

This is why I don't have to argue, laws are (and being) implemented that the unvaccinated cannot attend a School until they are vaccinated.

If it prevents only 1 child getting sick, or even just the chance of one getting sick, I support it fully.

If being unvaccinated for no dire health reason is your goal, pick another option to educate your children - you can do it at home, via a camera with a PC, correspondence, etc etc.

I understand your argument, however it's arguments like that that gets people killed when there are other options available to the parents if they choose not to vaccinate.

It's working very well in my country (Australia) -

Government "Oh, you don't want to vaccinate your children...fine, no money or support for you"
Parent "Fine then, don't need it!"...
Couple months later "I got my kids vacced, give me my money".



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: MuonToGluon

Your math does not add up to logical... only fearful.

If Autism rates are at epidemic levels and was not the case merely a few decades ago, and it does turn out that there are confirmed links between vaccines and Autism, then how in the world could that one single life saved equate to be better serving humanity if millions of families are affected by Autism? Maybe people want to refrain from vaccines to study if people thatare not vaccinated have reduced percentages of Autism infliction? From your stand point, your hiding your fear behind a law... all for the hopes that a less then 1% chance of harm is reduced to .0001% chance of harm. Meanwhile, let's ignore attempts to find out what is causing Autism... not very smart, and not really caring towards your fellow human beings that suffer from vaccine induced harm.

Honestly, if one child is saved don't you think that chances of a child being harmed are going to offset that saved child? Seriously, put away the fear and let parents decide for themselves.

You're so fearful of microorganisms it seems that you're even claiming that someone's argument over vaccines is going to get someone killed. Geez... guess what, we all will die one day.... you aren't exempt.
edit on 11-8-2017 by ttobban because: added comments...



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: MuonToGluon
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Thankfully the law is not on your side.


Thankfully your laws are not mine.

We value personal freedom in the U.S. and education...for now anyway.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: ttobban

Math?I didn't make any statements or math, you are just spouting BS that was never said.

As I said, I do not have to argue, you lost before you even began to try to win - the laws are being implemented, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

I would love to know where I mentioned anything about math, Autism, or anything at all you even typed out, in fact I even said "even a CHANCE".

Math math math, you are so full of it, you now even have to make up stuff.




posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 09:55 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

That's why I said "being implemented".



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: MuonToGluon

Doubt it. As long as there are religious freedoms to exploit, then there will always be an *out* for every parent that refuses to vaccinate.

Right now, religious freedoms are precious territory. When Muslims can't be exploited anymore, then maybe you will have a shot at governmental regulation of parental control.


edit on 8/11/2017 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 10:09 PM
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www.fairwarning.org...





At a midday news conference Wednesday in front of the red-brick U.S. Court of Federal Claims building in Washington, where the vaccine court hears its cases, authors of the report emphasized that their study was only preliminary. With further research on the more than 2,500 claims that have won compensation in vaccine court, they said, more evidence of inoculation-related autism would be certain to turn up.





In addition to those 32 examples, there were 51 cases in which parents interviewed by the researchers said their child’s vaccine injury led to “an autism diagnosis, autistic features or autistic-like behaviors.” A key similarity among the 83 successful claims identified, which produced more than $96.7 million in settlements and awards, is that the families did not assert that autism was their child’s primary injury.



In February, 1994, when Porter was four months old, he went through a wellness exam, which included a routine DPT, a combination vaccine against diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus. About 14 hours later, his mother says, she found the infant unconscious, his head flopping to the side.


Open up your eyes people... if it isn't even told to us or debated that there's a special court handling out settlements to the tune of MILLIONS of dollars, than there is something that the vaccine industry is not telling the public openly and honestly... this is pretty much a statistical fact that SOMETHING is not known about or being purposely withheld. Why in the world would people stretch the trust of vaccines and policy makers of them as far as what they may or may not do to the human anatomy??? Seriously, it's like they pretty much force all people to get vaccines because they feel that the masses are already stupid enough to have gone this far allowing it, so why stop now.

If you all want to be stupid enough to vaccinate with unknown consequences, then please leave those who choose to not vaccinate alone. I'd like to see a waiver system implemented... if one is forced to get vaccines and consequences occur as a result, then full financial support can be obtained... if one volunteers for vaccines, then they also forego the rights to any financial support if a condition comes as result of a vaccine(s). Because their is no consequences for decisions of past, we will continue to see people bicker in nonsensical fashions endlessly. Sure, why not add a bit of gambling to the choice to make it mean more to us as humans... hell, isn't getting vaccines a hedged bet anyway?


edit on 11-8-2017 by ttobban because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Think of weed, it is up to the state, one started and legalized, and how many are legalized now?

Religion won't win out, I don't think you are aware of what they're doing at the moment? Do you not think there may be a reason why I am saying "being implemented"...I'm not just saying that for the heck of it.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 10:23 PM
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a reply to: ttobban

Um, if you look a couple of pages back, I mentioned something about that the compensation fund...it is like, public knowledge.

Almost like they are aware that some subset of people suffer an adverse reaction to vaccines...and have a fund for that very reason - CONSPIRACY! No, very much public.

OPEN YOUR EYES EVERYONE TO PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: MuonToGluon

You didn't make any statements or math, huh? Well, if you are posting here in the English language, I'd say you're making statements. You previously mentioned that if 1 child, or even the chance of 1 child getting sick is a numerical evaluation, therefore making it mathematics in your statement.

Yes, I added the Autism because your math does not factor influences outside your lack of care and or lack of intelligence... I apologize for adding factors to your simple mind. It's why I posted to another poster to try and give up with trying to help people see life from aspects that are outside their own views and fears... it's a lost cause as I see it.

Math doesn't lie... it's the only true language that exists. No need to comprehend it or include it on rationalizing thought... you got laws that are keeping you safe from possible learning more about life... way to go! Your points are purely feeding the 'societal decay' I mentioned previously. So, is it math that's really full of it, or is it the lack of including it in your analysis that is causing you to remain in the box of microorganism fear here? My guess of 51% probability or higher is that it's the latter...



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 10:28 PM
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a reply to: [post=22547650]ttobban[/ost]

Statistics and math are a little different to what I said.

What I said summed up is:1 or even a chance, or even no chance at all, I support it.

It would not even matter to me if there was no chance at all of a child or adult dying, I would still support it.

I think you need to stop analyzing things too deeply.

You don't need to write a butt load of stats to refute that...trying to sound smart to support your argument will only lead to you being seen as arogant and a dumpy.

Edit: MATH - I said chance, even if that is 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% and half of that.

Math, chance.
edit on 11-8-2017 by MuonToGluon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: MuonToGluon

I give up... you apparently have zero ability to look at issues from perspectives outside yours. How in the hell can weed be compared to vaccines? It's kind of hard to find claims that cannabis permanently negatively affected a family's life after their child was force fed cannabis because at a young age. Secondly, there is no vaccine for cannabis... it's a medicine. It's almost like you'd be willing to inject your child with mercury if the government passed a law that said cannabis addictions were thwarted by mercury.

It's also an incorrect statement to indicate that another is wrong in debate... I've only lost the debate put forth with you because you have limited ability to think and act for yourself. Good luck trying to get a vaccine in a child of mine, because it's not happening. Make any law you want... laws against what people do to themselves are in place for the limited capacities of people to think for themselves. You better get to work... because people like me are going to induce added fears to the fearful... try adding some more laws, maybe that'll help protect your one sided views.

Sometimes debate isn't portrayed to sway the belief's of others... sometime's it's just random thoughts and words coupled together to make it public knowledge that people get stuck in their own views and end up being 1st grade level debaters... I call it the entry level 'trolling' experience, where it's not purposely chosen to be unable to see things from the perspectives of a person with a strong free will. I tried to debate here a bit, adding some mathematical stats and possible added variables, but it's fallen on the consciously deaf ears as it always does. I actually really enjoy being wrong, as it means there's something to learn going forward... but the only direction this debate with your limited capacity here offers is opinions that I lost the debate because there's laws out there that protect your ignorant views. What that equated to for me is... time to end debate with you. You can call it what you want, but I have yet to learn a single thing from your comments... it's like having brail on the drive thru here... pointless bickering about the emotions of vaccines.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: MuonToGluon

I don't mind being the arrogant and dumpy guy if it helps shed light on the incapacity for humans to think for themselves. Saying that my comments are aimed to be smart is a complete conflict of interest here, because I am trying to form opinions here that are related to vaccines. You on the other hand are going back to 1st grade, making blanket statements about the intelligence of others and what others must be content with things you're content with, is a dead end road of debate... no credible vaccine debate.

Now, is this one of those cases, like when students try to say that they're just bad at taking tests? Those students that claim that aren't usually bad at taking tests... they're just stupid people with an inability to see things from outside perspectives.

To hell with tests... both mine and yours. Nobody cares how much one knows when they know how much one cares. Knowledge if useless is it's not capable of being found.
edit on 11-8-2017 by ttobban because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 11:00 PM
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a reply to: MuonToGluon
And if accredited, protracted studies prove the link between vaccines and Autism---what then? How will you feel about all those families who have to deal with Autism simply because you thought you were right? Or will you consider a few million dollars adequate compensation for taking a normal child and damaging that child on the off chance that the child might encounter a childhood illness in the first 6 months of life? What are the acceptable negative consequences of vaccination in your world? If the child dies of the vaccination? Or is merely brain-damaged slightly? Moderately? If only 5 children out of 10,000 die? Or suffer irreparable damages?

I am not anti-vaccination. I am for being able to make an educated choice about what goes into my body.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt

That's my PRIMARY point... that vaccine supporters give little to know worth and or thought to the sides of the debate that don't fit their emotional nerves. The biggest points in vaccine debate that are to be made, in my opinion, are that the policies in and around vaccines do not protect those that do not wish to participate in a system of theories when it's involving the youthful brains and bodies (INNOCENT PEOPLE). Countless families have shifted their views on vaccines in recent times... most often stemming from the unfortunate experiences of seeing negative consequences of a vaccine(s) in a loved one. More than anything else, it pains me to witness that vaccine supporters don't include these unfortunate families in their own formed views of vaccines. In more of these cases than not, if a loved one became stricken with a vaccine induced ailment, it would drastically change their current views on vaccines. It's kind of sad that we as humans will knowingly tuck away the countless negative consequences vaccines put forth on the lives of others... all to appease the VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE that their untainted worlds don't become tainted.

Ignorance is bliss is a common quote for very good reason.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 12:49 AM
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a reply to: diggindirt

Just imagine how many people would flip their scripts on forcefully encouraging vaccines on their innocent/premature children if parents had to sign a waiver of federal financial obligation towards the medical care of a vaccine induced child if they get sick or damaged from a vaccine or more.

Until the policy makers are forced to honor a stable platform for un-vaccinated children to grow within (for science/statistical purposes) society among the vaccinated, there is a 99.99% chance, at the least, that the vaccine program falls to be substandard and slow to vaccinate people based on current trends... rather than just keep adding extinct or cureable diseases to an ever growing list. Why don't we throw a Leprosy, Scurvy, and mixes in there... what the hell, right? When's the last time Polio caused severe mental retardation in millions of children, or someone's even got Polio for that matter? There's a point that any good is offset, and it never ever gets analyzed... PATHETIC is what I call it. It's the blind leading the blind... at it's finest.

It's off topic, but possibly links to vaccines and their affects. My current studies are on the relations of Silica (essential body mineral) and aluminum (toxic to the body). It seems as if the human body can NOT distinguish between the 2 in molecule form... which is quite important to relate. See, Aluminum is not magnetic while Silica is. So, if the human body has buildup of aluminum in random or specific areas where it thinks Silica is residing... well, it leads to the inability of functional synapses to operate. Let's not question our deodorants though... let's make it a law to wear Aluminum deodorant as it's the only one that guarantees a stench free environment for 24 hours... for all sensitive noses in nose range, right???

It's undeniable that how Aluminum collects, builds up, and affects each and every human's is not able to be calculated... as similar as humans are, are processing systems are like finger prints and each is unique. I state that because, this is also a fact... that each and every human being will respond to Mercury and Aluminum being injected into them differently, with a wide variety of consequences as well. For those reasons alone, it is a CRIME on a CHILD to not allow them the choice to opt out of such programs. Being that definitive consequences can NOT be established, the law of averages DEMANDS that forced measures of vaccinating innocent youth be settled into a voluntary ONLY system.

Ignoring both sides of the spectrum. while relying on a system that may be poisoning our youth is like throwing in the towel. People lost the will to fight about change and the growth of humanity. Maybe a bit of the fight on crimes against youth are to battle the foregone free wills that have already given up THEIR OWN freedoms and actions? God forbid an adult generation finally put effort, implement live test basis', set aside personal emotions, and ADAPT WHILE WE LEARN.

Here we are debating how safe it is to inject metal into a newborn human? I can't get passed the crime of vaccine pumping as mandated policy, let alone get into the specifics of how vaccines affect humans later in life. How does it sit well with people that a bulk of these vaccines are for ailments that are laughable in comparison to times of history. Sure, chicken pox would kill a family way back when... but, we know how to heal it now... it's time to grow up, adapt with the times & ailments, and open up the constraints of mandated vaccine policies.

If you want to ask your doctor what's right for you and trust the advice that is returned, that is one thing... but no adult human has a lawful right to possibly knowingly harm a youth or more's entire life for the small off chance that they get the disease of the 21st century Leprosy... CHICKEN POX. Because it's paid professionals giving these vaccines, people relieve themselves of guilt by association/approval/white towel... sadly. Forget the health aspects... vaccines are morally wrong and a crime on youth.

Maybe we're not supposed to eradicate the balance of life? Just like I highly doubt that humans were created to sit on a couch all day, order their meals, while having zero abilities to hunt, catch, process, and feed themselves. Nobody wants to see harm inflicted on humans I'd hope, but I feel us adults should be fighting for the INNOCENT and YOUTH before we fight for our couch dwelling, self-served society that keeps us on couches with a bottle of sanitizer.

We should be balancing out the modern ways by opening up channels to health and how health events are handled, but look at our decay accelerate. It makes zero sense to increasingly and knowingly disrupt the futures of our breeding to accommodate our growing laziness and expectations that science, government, and consumer society teaches us (ALREADY DAMAGED GOODS)... to keep your place in lineand don't disrupt the flow of who is prescribing and who is being prescribed.

It's why I say... if one is PRO-VACCINE for reasons of health alone... IT"S A LOST CAUSE TO DEBATE with them. It's like nodding at the drive thru to answer a question. It's why I advocate for stopping vaccine crimes on innocent youth. I don't want our medicated conscious ways as a society to lead by example... I support educating future generations to be bold and take efforts that this and past generations squandered. It's going to take our youth to educate us adults in our older years to be that bold movement that keeps the U.S. as citizen ran lands and laws. We owe children a toxic free chance to pursue what generations before them turned their backs on.




edit on 12-8-2017 by ttobban because: (no reason given)



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