Taxation is nothing but theft.

originally posted by: Aristotelian1
I'v given this argument here on ATS before and nobody has been able to refute it. Since it was a little while back and there are new minds to evaluate it, here it is:

Premise 1: All cases of theft are cases of taking somebody else's property or money without their consent.

Theft = to steal

steal:

1.
take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

taxes are a legal right.
The premise is wrong, the thread therefore is invalid. Pay your taxes.

originally posted by: southbeach

originally posted by: scojak
a reply to: Aristotelian1

You should brush up on the purpose of taxation. If taxes didn't exist, you would live a very uncomfortable life.

Or we could all just do what the thieving parasites of the Rothschilds banking cartel does and print our own money out of fresh air.

Governments already do create money out of thin air.

Doesn't remove the need for taxation.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: 9empress9
So are you saying you do not have unalienable rights the creator gave you and a fictional entity called Government(to govern the mind) is your God/father/savior. ...

I honestly have no clue as to the point you are trying to make. Government does exist. You may not like it, but it is true. I am not American, so have no clue as to the rest of your post. I was responding to the basic gist of the OP that taxation is theft.

You are not meant to get it. It is Freeman woo with no basis in reality.

Did the Native American's have taxation before the Europeans showed up? If not, members of a tribe still had to band together to mount a defense against more aggressive tribes? So, being part of group requires sacrifice?

a reply to: Aristotelian1

If you don't like it, liquidate and live on a boat in international seas. Good luck with pirates?

a reply to: Aristotelian1

Glad to see someone is finally writing about something of substance which affects most users.

In addition to taxation being theft; is because its basically only the masses that pay it, the rich are unofficially exempt because tax laws in nearly all countries are written to enable the rich to pay only tokenism levels of tax. Then there are these reasons

Tax is word used to avoid using the word 'interest' which is what govt pays on borrowed money. This is because the govt, despite supposedly being the highest authority in the land has to borrow the money it spends off the banks. Despite govt supposedly being the highest authority in the land, the banks will not allow the govt to create its own credit using the exact same method the banks use.

Ask ourselves the question, if all governments are in debt, to whom are they in debt to? They cant be in debt to each other because all they would have to do is go into a huddle and agree to cancel each others debt. So who are we in debt too?

Tax is also theft because govts are resorting to getting high and higher amounts of which they must do if they are pay the interest. We all need to recognise that if govt borrows its money off the banks then ultimately, it has to also borrow the interest to pay the interest because if govt is not a for profit business, then where does it get the interest to pay on the borrowed money.

This need is becoming desperate hence their great reliance on indirect taxes like infringements of various kinds. In fact its now getting to the level that its simply looting due to the ease by which one can incur an infringement and the high amounts fine are relative to average weekly earnings.

As Lord Action once said, the issue that has swept down through the ages and will have to be fought sooner or later is the issue of the people vs the banks.

Henry Ford once said, its just as well that ordinary people not not understand how money works because if they did there would be a riot before dawn.

a reply to: Aristotelian1

So YOU live in a country were your fellow citizen's have died for your security, safety (from those outside of it) and you VOTE for a government.


How do you pay for the army or any other service.

WHO is the owner of the land upon which you live are you a nomad with no NATIONALITY, ok most land is stolen, its first human settler's long since murdered by someone until eventually it was whom ever you bought it off or whom they bought it off before you that murdered them but you get the point.

NO Representation without Taxation.


We may not agree with how much we have to pay, with what it get's spent on especially by corrupt official's or those using state fund's (your tax's) to bolster private interests abroad through so called foreign aid package's that most often don't even help anyone other than the bank account's of corrupt officials in those country's - hence they are essentially bribery but paying tax is essential, there has to be a bureaucracy no matter how distasteful that may be, education is an essential, state management is also essential.

Beyond that it become's political right and left.

Taxation is only theft if you were the only person in your nation and another nation then demanded money from you, it is theft however if you simply do not have money to pay and no one should ever be taxed to bankruptcy as that is a ridiculous state of affair's, indeed if a business is a good business that employ's state should often have emergency interest free tax money funded loan's and even grant's to save or see struggling large employers through hard time's, only the bank's (with a safety net of a true state owned bank to pick up the pieces and prevent the economy from collapse) or unsustainable industry's should be allowed to fail.

a reply to: Azureblue

Unjust taxation is a burden. Just taxation provides national defense, highways, flood mitigation, emergency services, libraries, parks, the protection of fish and wildlife, prevents monopolies......

Or would you rather get rid of cops and go back to the days of blood feuds, or the hue and cry. Where any abled person in ear shot of the hue and cry was responsible to respond?

Personal, I like a court system with judges and jury of peers. A fire department. Police department. Libraries. Parks.

I don't like taxation for the purpose of redistribution of wealth?

The USA does have one of the highest corporate taxes in the world?

You think taxation is steeling? Then why are you angry the rich are not stolen from enough?

a reply to: Aristotelian1

Nope, taxation is not theft.

Taxation allows us to have a civilized society with resources.

Your attitude is greedy and selfish. You are more money grabbing than the corporations.

I love it when humans get what they deserve.

If it was me making decisions I would raise your taxes just for moaning and being greedy.

Go rattle your cage somewhere else.

People have gotten too fat and lazy. Might help you guys to lose a little weight, yes?

Lol!

Currently, one in three U.S. adults is obese, bringing forth a possible health toll, including high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, heart disease and stroke. Another third of Americans are overweight.9 Mar 2016

Yep, 2 in ever 3 Americans are FAT!

Understan ding the American Obesity Epidemic

You ain't looking that poor and starved to me, dude.

The fattest society in the world!

Fat! Fat! Fat!

And moaning about taxes, too, when you pay the least tax of all Western societies. That is why your society sucks. That is why it is so violent and there are so many homeless people; dejected people in ghettos constantly high on crack with no health service. It's blooming barbaric compared to Europe ain't it! So, keep moaning about what little you do pay and hope you don't get mugged by one of the poor dudes you keep impoverished and will not give a helping hand to.

You need to have less, not more, quite obviously. I shall recommend this to my superiors.

Should we pay taxes to Ceaser, Master?

Yeah, Baby! Look who's head is on the coin and it ain't yours.

Meatheads all over the world, you don't own the money. It ain't yours. If you don't like it make your own and see if anyone will take it as legal tender.

Tough cookies that crumble your teeth, dudes.

Lol, I wonder who's head is on the bitcoin?

Be seeing you

originally posted by: ScepticScot
The very fact that people have wealth/income to tax comes from society. The laws to enforce property rights, the roads to move goods even the very money we use.

Taxation is necessary for society to function.

For once I agree with you ..... Who would have thunk it!!!

Taxes are collected and then used to provide services for the citizens of the United States such as public schools, transportation, military protection, fire departments, libraries, police stations, and so much more. Taxes are what allow us to live in a society that functions as well as ours does in America. That isn't stealing. We get something in return for paying our taxes.

Secondly, "No taxation without representation!" cried people in the New World as they broke away from Brittain. Now we have taxes AND representation. That means that we have a say in things. So not only is nothing taken, but we are asked for our input.

If enough people wanted to eliminate taxes and allow society to fall flat on its face, it would happen. It just takes votes.

a reply to: Aristotelian1

If your going to have the privlege of calling yourself an American you can at least do your bit and stop expecting handouts.

Yes, I agree taxation is nothing but theft provided the money they collected is not used for public benefit, building infrastructures and making our lives better

a reply to: Aristotelian1

Some taxation is needed to build and repair infrastructure, maintain a military, and provide needed programs for the elderly and it's citizens.

However having said that, I feel the U.S. has gone overboard with their taxation. What gets under my skin is repeated re-sale taxation on houses, cars, boats etc.... Someone pays taxes on the full value of something, and than when they sell it the government wants to tax it again!

How about when someone wins the lottery or money at a Casino and old Uncle Sam makes sure he gets his cut. Talk about robbing someone of their winnings!

If that isn't bad enough, Uncle Sam is breathing down your neck when a parent dies! Inheritance, what is that? The U.S. has created legislation that makes it nearly impossible to leave your children an inheritance if your parent needs nursing care for the last few years of their lives!

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: rickymouse
We need roads and bridges, we do need a military to keep another country from taking over this country, we do need police forces to keep the peace. We do need regulations to help to protect our rights. These things require money to operate.

Who is 'we' and who lumped me in with everyone else? I think part of the problem is we don't have freedom to choose our associations. We are already allocated to a particular government at birth.

Personally I don't like my money being used to bomb, drone and kill people around the world. I don't want to be associated with a collective that does that sort of thing.

That isn't your money that they are wasting, it is your kids money. They are the ones who will be paying off the national debt. Aren't we nice to our kids in this new society where everyone thinks they are doing so much good for people when in fact we are dooming our grandkids to poverty.

I assure You the house of cards will come down sooner than You think.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
The very fact that people have wealth/income to tax comes from society. The laws to enforce property rights, the roads to move goods even the very money we use.

Taxation is necessary for society to function.

And yet We had all those things before 1913 if You ever studied history You would know that

a reply to: Aristotelian1

It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. What does matter is the purchasing power of your take home pay. The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists forced the politicians to pass legislation creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Because everyone is forced to shop at the company store for essentials the monopolies and cartels can suck up all the wages.

How bad can taxes really be if every year the rich get richer and the middle class is driven deeper and deeper into poverty wages. And the problem is so much worse than anyone can imagine. Just look at this video but be warned this video will make you puke:

www.youtube.com...

If we could just return to tax rates at Clinton levels we might be able to balance the federal budget. It's funny, there's one group of people who say "never raise taxes no matter what." The late 90s was a pretty good period in our history. We need to return to late 90s growth. The only way that is going to is if workers have good wages. No customers means lower wages. It's a downward spiral.

It's funny how red-states think government is the problem. And blue-states think corporations are the problem. Since corporations have taken over the government both are right.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

I think this quote from the 1936 Democratic National Convention sums it up pretty well:

"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

The lobbyists have government representation, everything you post is just BS.

a reply to: Aristotelian1

I agree with you more than disagree, but taxation in and of itself isn't the problem, it's who and how and what is taxed that is the problem.

The individual income tax on our earned income is theft. We all have a natural inalienable and absolute right to provide for ourselves and our families and benefit from the fruits of the earth. Period. No one should have to pay a tax to make a living -- no matter how much or how little one earns.

On the other hand, no one has a right to unearned income, which was created out of whole cloth by man-made laws. Nor does anyone have a right to incorporate and receive special entitlements from government for doing business -- again, fictional legal entities created out of whole cloth. Foreign nations/companies do not have a right to do business here.

This is where taxes should be laid -- and where they were placed until the creation of the Federal Reserve and the individual earned income tax.

Unfortunately, too many folks will gladly exchange natural inalienable rights for government entitlements -- on both sides of the aisle.

The irony is that without taxation there would be no police force and therefore you would be more likely to experience theft of your property.

Anarchy isn't quite the pleasant dream many imagine it would be.

I am so sick of fawning over rich people and their desires for more. Where are the gd jobs going to come from? So my kids don't need welfare So my kids can buy property and pay taxes for a civilization. So my kids can retire. So my kids can buy health insurance and live. Infrastructure first, jobs first. Then give the creeps their huge tax breaks cause I won't care.