Is the Jewish Race of Sumerian Origin?

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
For starters, Jewish is not a race...

This is correct. "Jewish" is not a race, it is a religion.

That's like calling Christians a race, or Hindus, or Buddhists.....

a reply to: Kryties

a reply to: Kryties
Exactly. The idea of race is a modern concept and within Judaism only starts recently with zionism

a reply to: Revolution9

Abraham is the first Jew proper

No (apart from the fact that his mother wasn't Jewish)

committedtotruth.wordpress.com...

Abraham came from a pagan, Gentile family, and was serving God before he was circumcised. However, Abraham was neither a Jew nor an Israelite. The name “Jew” comes from the name “Judah.” Judah was a great-grandson of Abraham, born after Abraham had died. Judah was the beginning of the tribe of Judah, which was the tribe of King David and later of Jesus. All Israelites came to be known as “Jews” because of the prominence of that tribe. In fact, the country of the Jews was known as Judea in the time of Jesus, a name that also came from Judah. In the same way, Abraham was not an Israelite. Israel is the name God gave to Abraham’s grandson, Jacob (again, after Abraham was dead). The Israelites were the descendants of Israel. One of the Twelve Tribes of Israel was the tribe of Judah, who eventually gave their name to all of the nation. So, Abraham was the Father of the nation of Israel and the Father of the Jews – but he himself was neither Israelite not Jew. Those designations came later.

a reply to: Revolution9

No nothing from you, just a one liner totally vile anti Semitic statement, the kind of statement HITLER or GOEBBELS would have made. Well done you.

So you don't want discourse - you like to play Reductio ad Hitlerum
Very low....

a reply to: Revolution9

Who to trust?
Are these not your own words, or have you solved the absolute truth of Abraham & Co overninght?

"Never trust someone who has found the truth"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

They only relate to humans and our consciousness; man made language like French or German. Language is not truth or else "you" would be "you" and not "vous". What I am saying is not true

Truth? Only The Alpha and Omega Intelligence can claim ownership of that (if he/she/it even exists). Intelligence might so easily just be something that is a vain characteristic tool of humans for their survival and not at all necessary in the grander scheme of things.

a reply to: Revolution9

Jewish isn't a race, it's a religion.

R9, you are truly a student of history.
Outstanding , Baruch Hashem



Buck

a reply to: Revolution9

Some historians think that they are Khazars who converted to Judaism.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: Revolution9

Some historians think that they are Khazars who converted to Judaism.

That's only the Ashkenazi Jews. However they do make up the majority of the worlds Jews. And historians believe this because it's actually backed up by DNA.

Whenever discussing the Khazars in relation to Judaism, it becomes quite controversial and people get labelled anti-Semites like it's going outta style. That doesn't change the fact that the Khazars were a Caucasian group that converted to Judaism in the 8th century AD and therefore have no blood relation to the ancient Hebrews.

Furthermore, it also means that Ashkenazis have no Semitic blood. So the term "anti-Semitic" really doesn't apply here.

a reply to: Revolution9

I find it hard to understand why you would get so upset, almost angry sounding when someone responds to a post you wrote. Do you have certain rights on this board no one else knows about? If you put up a thread then expect people to make their comments. It's not attacking you, it's how this place works.

While it might be hard to face criticism over what you deem to be a lot of work, if you put it out there for the masses, don't complain when the masses add their two cents!

Jewish is not a race it's true. AdmireTheDistence was stating a fact. You blew it way out of proportion and by your own actions you may have killed your own topic.

originally posted by: Revolution9

That is because you said something that Hitler would have said to deny the Jewish people their identity.

I have used the word "race" according to the Oxford English Dictionary and the Cambridge Dictionary. I am NOT going to use your definition because it has no authority and is being used politically to diminish the identity of a racial group of people.

Of course Jewish people have intermarried. This has nothing to do with the thread anyhow. My thread is about the Sumerian origin of the original Jews.

I don't understand the silly games you play and how you gang up on people. You have no intellectual civility. I would much rather you had the guts to address my thread. That would have been welcome, as criticism, etc.

Actually it was the identification of people of Jewish decent as a "race", with all the Nazi pseudo science that went with it, that helped create such problems for people of the Jewish faith around the 2nd world war.

Judaism is a religion with its roots in a particular region of the world and the last I checked you could convert to Judaism, I don't think the same can be said of a "race".

Additionally "race" is a term that is no longer used in any scientific circles, including anthropology. Furthermore none of the other examples you gave are "races" either. I'm British and part Irish, that doesn't make some kind of British/Irish racial hybrid. These are nationalities.

When talking about such emotive subjects as, "race", ethnicity and religion, it's best to get the terminology right, rather than fly of the handle at people trying to correct your mistake.

You guys are always harping about the Yekkes, but there are a few other types of Jews you always leave out.



One of the best days of my life , was when my youngest daughter married back into one of the oldest Mizrahi clans.
After 51 generations in exile, the circle was complete.

Buck

I think you should ditch the term, "race." A "race" is something you can't change at will (like being Latino, etc.) I can, if I want, become Jewish.

originally posted by: Revolution9
For many years now I have been slowly developing my own understanding of the origins of the Jewish people. Ever since reading in Genesis about where Abraham came from it has seemed almost obvious to me that the Jewish race both began with Abraham and that Abraham came from Sumeria, at the end of the Sumerian civilization. Perhaps there was much upheaval in Ur that displaced the population and they went off in different directions to find new places to live?

Have you looked at scholarly sources for the origin of the Jewish faiths and for the history of the time and the area? Judaism originates in Canaan and is one of several similar paleolithic religions. They date to around 900 BC.

Today the usual dating of Abraham in Mesopotamia is in either the Ur III or Isin-Larsa periods (see table 1). This depends upon the different interpretations concerning biblical chronology.3 Kenneth Kitchen, for instance, dates the oppression of the Israelites in Egypt from c. 1320–1260/1250 and the Exodus around 1260/1250 and uses a 645 year period between Abraham and the Exodus. This gives a date for the period between Abraham and Joseph from around 1900–1600 (Kitchen 2003, pp. 358–359).4 This would place Abraham during the Isin-Larsa period.

"Answers in Genesis" is not a good site to use when debating - a better site is Jewish Virtual Library which has good citations and is full of material from a Jewish (not Christian) viewpoint.

Jews place the birth of Abraham around 1800 BC, which would be somewhere in the middle of theDynasty of Isin (according to the Sumerian Kings' Lists. So Sumer would be under Amorite rule.

Personally, I believe that when the Hebrews were taken into exile, by the kingdom that descended from the same source civilization as they did a thousand years before, they discovered writing in earnest.

They originally used a Paleo-Hebrew, which was a variant of Phoenician. The current alphabet in use was formed sometime around 300 BC.

My thread here is grossly deficient. Scholars write whole books about this stuff. I am just giving you the briefest of sketches about my own and others' theories that the modern Jews originated from Southern Mesopotamia at the end of the Sumerian civilization.

It's contentious because so much of the Bible is not confirmed by archaeology. Some of it is, yes, but in other areas (Egyptian history) it's so unreliable that it's never used as a source.

originally posted by: glend
The egyptian pharoah Amenhotep IV who latter changed his name to Akhenaten tried to implement a monotheistic religion in Egypt but was never accepted by many of the high priest. Some have suggested that Akhenaten himself was Moses or one of Akhenaten high priests started the exodus for Egyptians that wern't allowed to practice their religion in their own land.

Freud and company started that one, and it was quickly discounted after they began excavating and translating documents from Akhenaten's royal city.

The only high priest of Akhenaten's religion was Akhenaten himself. Seriously. There weren't any others allowed.

If you are interested in people from the middle east, or mediterranean people (who could be of any or no religion) - there is recorded history out there of the migrations of people. There was a very good thread on that here, recently. If someone else remembers that one.

Besides the 'Jewish Virtual Library', already mentioned, for those interested in near eastern history - try the Oriental Institute at U of Chicago.

Here -

Oriental Institute, U Chi

They have a wealth of research to read right on their website.

There's even vague evidence it goes further east. To India basically.
Gotta remember, the first well written languages and first known religions started in the Indus valley.

Considering everybody else has already explained that Jews are not a race I won't stress the point too much, but really it is a problem when beliefs are predicated on a provably false idea.

Just to put the final nail in the coffin of this thread, though I doubt the original poster will care to understand:

Hebrews did not start writing down their own long-held beliefs in Babylon.

Hebrews stole their beliefs from religions already in existence in Babylon. They tweaked things to their own ends and took the new religion to the geographical region now known as Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories of the West Bank.

Its not a problem, all religions appear to have stolen from older ones.

But don't deny it or seek for explanations more in line with trying to make religious writings historical fact when they are not such. They are fiction.

Oh, and don't immediately react aggressively in calling people anti-semitic when they point out truths.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: glend
The egyptian pharoah Amenhotep IV who latter changed his name to Akhenaten tried to implement a monotheistic religion in Egypt but was never accepted by many of the high priest. Some have suggested that Akhenaten himself was Moses or one of Akhenaten high priests started the exodus for Egyptians that wern't allowed to practice their religion in their own land.

Freud and company started that one, and it was quickly discounted after they began excavating and translating documents from Akhenaten's royal city.

The only high priest of Akhenaten's religion was Akhenaten himself. Seriously. There weren't any others allowed.

How would translating documents from Akhenaten's days prove that the character of Moses wasn't based on him?

It's widely accepted as fact that Akhenaten was a real historical figure based on physical evidence, but what evidence do we have for Moses' existence outside of The Bible?

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
For starters, Jewish is not a race...

You are denying a race of people with that comment.

Obviously you are not a Jew, and your comment is ludicrous!
Jewish is NOT a race, other than to the ignorant, or ignorant racists who need that connection.