Dear Scotland,

a reply to: EvanB

Right some fact's, many of the hard line scot's whom want to break away from the united kingdom ARE bigot's, there anger with downing street (which about 90 percent of all Britain's feel) is turned against everyone south of the border, that said there are just as many south of the border whom are just as bigoted and small minded.

There are MORE people of Scot's DESCENT south of the border than north of it (Liverpool, Manchester, Tyneside, even London all port's of call that became home when the wealthy Scot's land owners put there own poor off of there land stealing it so that they could use it to raise sheep, another episode many Scot's blame the English for when in fact it was there own ruling aristocracy) so calling it racist is wrong but by any other expression that is what it is, but more like the madness of Celtic VS Rangers fans turned instead into Scot's Vs England, get them apart and it will be back to Celtic Vs Rangers in no time at least in Glasgow Town.

The EU will NOT give a special licence to Scotland and breaking away WILL make there international standing far weaker even though currently they feel there interests are not being met by the downing street hypocrite's and in that they are correct, The EU will only want there north sea and to rape there remaining fish stock's from Scotland as they have nothing else that the EU could really want except an ancient kinship with Norway.

The EU economy is going to go arse up of that I have no doubt, it will recover but it will have a bad time ahead and just when so many of the Scot's want to break away in an angry protest against the Tory's, I would not mind if they would instead move the border to just south of Birmingham and perhaps we could all get some decent politician's then but of course that is not going to happen and for the conceivable future the Tory home county's despite being numerically inferior over all by populace in our twisted voting system base on non proportional representation we will not shake the Tory's but then look at the opposition, all the best labour politicians are sadly either now in the SNP or else tearing there own party apart while the Tory light whom stole the Labor party and have done so very much to turn the scot's against the very party they founded have sat there wanting to be the British equivalent of the US democrat's.

If Scotland does go independent and I am certain it shall regardless of what I say like an old aircraft carrier broken in two both half's of our once mighty and proud nation - and it is a single nation despite racist tribal gob"$^es, has been for hundreds of years with intermarriage, shared sacrifice and mostly shared morality and ideal's - will never be great again neither south nor north of the border.

The problem is that the Tory's think they can have there cake and eat it while taking the crumbs from the children's mouth's and that is what and whom they will always be but because as I said before of our disgusting and non democratic non proportional representation voting sytem they have gotten into power far more often than they ever would have otherwise, they only got into power this time because Cameron that pig mouth abusing homeless people abusing nasty Eton bat boy offered a referendum on EU membership after letting the EU take the flak for his own party's and the coalition's decision's using the EU as a scapegoat, the damage is done now so the scot's doing more damage to both there own part of the country and the rest of it is actually simply not logical.

In fact just like a dream I had some time ago this nation is now like an old unmanned air craft carrier past her prime adrift in a rainy squall heading toward rock's were she will break her back and both half's sink beneath the dark waves never to be seen again, in her almost empty cavernous hanger deck there are a group of elderly people singing Rule Britannia even as the dark waves flood in smashing through her old bulkhead's and down she goes, the end of the great ship Britannia once the largest air craft carrier in the US navy.


The truth we will have it bad anyway, the short term look up is only that and will collapse, the Tory's are hiding the true unemployment figures by refusing to remove Zero hours contract's so many so called employed are barely able to put food in there mouth's and still require help from the state, others whom are too sick are sanctioned and literally left to die by the Tory's anti Christian and to be frank anti British policy's while the Tory's are happy to sell our arm's to the Saudi's despite the fact they are creating a rod for our future generation's back's, we have falling birth rate's and they are attacking family support and reducing to level's were people with kid's simply can not survive and let's remember they caused the problem in the first place.

In the first place, yes.

You see most Brit's have a very short myopic political memory, they forget whom did what to them and instead blame whomever is in power when it hurt's but so very much of this problem stems' back to the 1980's and Margaret Thatcher with her stated aim of restoring the British class system, that is putting the poor down and elevating the wealthy which is exactly what she said, she wanted to see private landlord's, slum tenement's and the poor being polite to there better's.
She abolished the hard won rule that made it a legal requirement for wages to rise in line with inflation and at the same time did not touch the index link to the benefit's system, our social safety net as it was and this also led to fat cast boss' with massive wages.

This in turn led to nearly 30, no 40 years of constant wage and state benefit's rising at a disparate level, the benefit's bound by the law's that said what people had to have to live on started to outstrip the wages simply because she had created a wage slave society by her action's, sold off the council housing stock at a discount with the sole intent of removing all council housing from existence knowing most council housing stock had only been built to last between 20 to 40 years so the private landlord's and there manner houses would return, of course she did not expect russian oligarch's and Saudis to buy up London but then she was long sighted in her goal's which were distinctly inhumane and short sighted in her moral code anyway.


So what I am saying is that I do not blame the scot's, if I lived north of the border I would probably vote SNP as well since they are the only party speaking Labor anymore while most of Labor is chasing after minority votes instead of ethical politics upon which they were once born - in Scotland no less.

So far the only party I have seen giving the Tory's a run for there money in parliament are actually the SNP, this is sad as they should be on the side of Labor as aside from there religious devotion to Independence regardless of it's true implication's they still share most thing's in common with Labor, at least with traditional old Labor.

So the Scot's are going to go independent, the UK will have no deal with the EU and will leave with crumb's while still having to pay reparation's to the EU (and that will include the Scot's having to pay there share fair or not) and Britain will be finished, with no flag ship to champion it the commonwealth will either disolve or India will become it's leader, probably the latter.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Denoli
The only way Scotland will become independent is if they promise a FREE BAR if they do and that as daft as it sounds WILL get ur independence

Typical racism, claiming Scotland is a nation of alcoholics? In the bin with you...

NO ITS THE TRUTH and no wonder the world is #ed if that's racist

originally posted by: Denoli

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Things could change but as an independent nation Scotland can make its own choices. Just as the UK has.

You keep forgetting....Scotland is part of the UK

and therefor is part of any decission making.

At the moment we have to ask permission even to decide if we want independence or not.

And you actually believe it will be any different

in the EU?

Did the UK ask permission to leave the EU?

YES THEY ASKED THE PEOPLE THOUGHT YOU MIGHT OF HEARD ABOUT IT

Sigh. Did they ask the EU for permission to leave?
Read the post i was replying to.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
They don't care.

All they care about is...haha England, we win!

They're pathetic.

Funnily enough that's what my Scottish wife says. Sturgeon and Salmond before her biggest trick is fooling the Scots into believing they care about Scotland.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.

septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?

No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.

No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.

And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then

Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.

Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.

Nope no confusion at all.

I don't really expect the confused person to be capable of identifying their own confusion, or they'd be able to correct it.

Let's summarise.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.

Then you went on to tell me I was fixating on the EU, like it's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate when in ifact, it's the basis of your entire argument.

Still not confused?

Only by your​ apparent inability to understand.

The mentality of the modern Scot - anyone who can't understand their twisted lack of logic has a problem...good for you, sir.

Have fun chasing your tail and talking out of your backside.

Thanks for showing your true colours.

They've been on display quite openly since I started taking part in this thread...are you just noticing?

You really are bright, aren't you.

So glad you revel in your rudeness, ignorance and bigotry. Must make life so much easier than having to think about things.

Yes, yes...being honest nowadays is always bigotry.

Everything is England and Westminsters fault.

The Scots are oppressed, it's such a shame for them. The EU is great, Westminster...baaaaad!

I'm a bigot, naturally, because I disagree with you. I'm not the separatist, nationalist...that would be you.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

Nope generalised derogatory statements about whole groups of people make you a bigot. Nothing to do with your views on independence.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Forensick
The Scots voting to leave Britain and join Europe is like an Eskimo living on an Iceberg deciding to live on the ship Titanic it's Iceberg just hit.

The Pengiuns lived fookin royally.

Iceberg is good analogy.

Cold, inhospitable and they eventually break apart.

Yeah but the Cold wilderness is not 3rd world Thanks to Great Britain.

Clyde shipyards, Faslane, preswick, Lossiemouth, lost fishing industry, North Sea oil....

Train spotting generation, blame the English, think for yourselves, it isn't England that has fooked you, Europe did it via England.

You will be fooked harder soon enough.

originally posted by: Denoli

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Denoli
The only way Scotland will become independent is if they promise a FREE BAR if they do and that as daft as it sounds WILL get ur independence

Typical racism, claiming Scotland is a nation of alcoholics? In the bin with you...

NO ITS THE TRUTH and no wonder the world is #ed if that's racist

Really? coming back and shouting "NO ITS THE TRUTH" is really infantile...

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: HeathenJessie

Nope generalised derogatory statements about whole groups of people make you a bigot. Nothing to do with your views on independence.

Statements based on what I've seen, read and heard over the course of my 36 years as a Scot.

You belong a part of the EU, they flout that sword at every opportunity, too...anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

Oops...is, is that another sweeping, general statement? I believe it is, could I be more bigot?

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Forensick
The Scots voting to leave Britain and join Europe is like an Eskimo living on an Iceberg deciding to live on the ship Titanic it's Iceberg just hit.

The Pengiuns lived fookin royally.

Iceberg is good analogy.

Cold, inhospitable and they eventually break apart.

Yeah but the Cold wilderness is not 3rd world Thanks to Great Britain.

Clyde shipyards, Faslane, preswick, Lossiemouth, lost fishing industry, North Sea oil....

Train spotting generation, blame the English, think for yourselves, it isn't England that has fooked you, Europe did it via England.

I don't think either England or Europe has fooked us.

I am pro independence because i think it is the best choice going forward. Nothing to do with the past.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Denoli

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Denoli
The only way Scotland will become independent is if they promise a FREE BAR if they do and that as daft as it sounds WILL get ur independence

Typical racism, claiming Scotland is a nation of alcoholics? In the bin with you...

NO ITS THE TRUTH and no wonder the world is #ed if that's racist

Really? coming back and shouting "NO ITS THE TRUTH" is really infantile...

Eastern Scotland, prosperity from the North Sea Oil Fields, do you want to be independent?

What about the English people, though? That's the point, isn't it?

It's a little too easy for the likes of Scotland to pack up and run off, the English people can't do that, their only option is revolution or reform.

It's cowardly for Scotland, or Wales, or any country that's part of the union to run off and leave everyone else to deal with the situation we're all partly responsible.

Scottish nationalists act like we are innocent bystanders...my view is that the whole of the UK should push for reform and change of the political system in a way that benefits all of the UK, not just the Scots.

But I'm the bigot...I'm not proud to be Scottish nor are we brave, a nation of cowards.

Self deprecating...is that still bigoted? The Scots are behaving like cowards, want to run off and leave everyone else to deal with the mess...what about the English and Welsh?

I don't suppose they matter. Yes, it's pathetic...and if being honest about it makes clowns like you call me a bigot...good!

Call me what you like...the only way those lame tactics work is if people allow them to...I don't allow them to, and shan't apologise for being honest about how I see it...so call me all the names you like.

It's better than trying to make valid points and win an argument when you're wrong, right?

originally posted by: LABTECH767
So what I am saying is that I do not blame the scot's, if I lived north of the border I would probably vote SNP as well since they are the only party speaking Labor anymore while most of Labor is chasing after minority votes instead of ethical politics upon which they were once born - in Scotland no less.

For some reason I can't star people just now and even if I could, one isn't enough for this post of yours. Thank you for putting your point across intelligently and in a way that doesn't sound like you're annoyed at the Scots. Some of the posters in theis thread are making me want independence even more...

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: HeathenJessie

Nope generalised derogatory statements about whole groups of people make you a bigot. Nothing to do with your views on independence.

Statements based on what I've seen, read and heard over the course of my 26 years as a Scot.

You belong a part of the EU, they flout that sword at every opportunity, too...anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

Oops...is, is that another sweeping, general statement? I believe it is, could I be more bigot?

You are of course entitled to your opinion about your fellow Scots as per the posts I replied to.

People reading your opinion are entitled to make their own judgement on your character.

Do however find it odd that someone with your apparent obsession with patriotism would have such a low view off their fellow countrymen.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Forensick
The Scots voting to leave Britain and join Europe is like an Eskimo living on an Iceberg deciding to live on the ship Titanic it's Iceberg just hit.

The Pengiuns lived fookin royally.

Iceberg is good analogy.

Cold, inhospitable and they eventually break apart.

Yeah but the Cold wilderness is not 3rd world Thanks to Great Britain.

Clyde shipyards, Faslane, preswick, Lossiemouth, lost fishing industry, North Sea oil....

Train spotting generation, blame the English, think for yourselves, it isn't England that has fooked you, Europe did it via England.

I don't think either England or Europe has fooked us.

I am pro independence because i think it is the best choice going forward. Nothing to do with the past.

Independence from England in return for slavery to Europe? Fill your boots!

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: ZIPMATT

Thatt's a nasty slur , and yes , these problems that keep coming from Sturgeon are about messing with Brexit .
I correct myself , the SNP are not Scotland faithful advocates .
For example , Salmond talks about the 'heartbreak of seeing empty glens ' , because the scots have mostly moved away down south or to europe . What ? Does he imagine they might fill back up with people who aren't even from Scotland ?
He 's a pretender , doublefaced liar :
nothing paranoid or deluded about knowing what a doublefaced liar is . You're spreading ignorance now .

Except the Glens are emptying because people are moving to the bigger towns and cities, true some are moving down South and Abroad but to suggest it's all folk from the Glens is a bit much...

well blame Alex Salmond for that then , bleating out anything he can think of in a debate , when he's a plain doubleface , not a true Scot with true intent .

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Forensick
The Scots voting to leave Britain and join Europe is like an Eskimo living on an Iceberg deciding to live on the ship Titanic it's Iceberg just hit.

The Pengiuns lived fookin royally.

Iceberg is good analogy.

Cold, inhospitable and they eventually break apart.

Yeah but the Cold wilderness is not 3rd world Thanks to Great Britain.

Clyde shipyards, Faslane, preswick, Lossiemouth, lost fishing industry, North Sea oil....

Train spotting generation, blame the English, think for yourselves, it isn't England that has fooked you, Europe did it via England.

I don't think either England or Europe has fooked us.

I am pro independence because i think it is the best choice going forward. Nothing to do with the past.

Independence from England in return for slavery to Europe? Fill your boots!

Independence from the UK in return for membership of the EU.

Talk of slavery shows a serious lack of perspective.

originally posted by: Forensick
Eastern Scotland, prosperity from the North Sea Oil Fields, do you want to be independent?

Damn right I do and most of the people I know in the Oil Industry felt the same way (then again I could count the number of No supporters I know personally on all of my digits and I know a lot of people...

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: HeathenJessie

Nope generalised derogatory statements about whole groups of people make you a bigot. Nothing to do with your views on independence.

Statements based on what I've seen, read and heard over the course of my 26 years as a Scot.

You belong a part of the EU, they flout that sword at every opportunity, too...anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

Oops...is, is that another sweeping, general statement? I believe it is, could I be more bigot?

You are of course entitled to your opinion about your fellow Scots as per the posts I replied to.

People reading your opinion are entitled to make their own judgement on your character.

Do however find it odd that someone with your apparent obsession with patriotism would have such a low view off their fellow countrymen.

I call a spade a spade...I'm not just going to sing the praises of people simply because we're from the same country...that would be stupid.

I'm down on my fellow countrymen because I'm sick of their petty victim culture and whinging...if you don't like being called these things or people thinking this stuff then maybe you should grow a backbone and stop acting like the perpetual victim....stop blaming England and Westminster for everything.

Stop looking for the easy way out...stop being disloyal to the UK. Stop seeing yourself as the oppressed, poor victim in all of this, we're not and never have been.

Man up.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

The EU would probably show Scotland more respect that ANY government of Westminster ever has.

Are you for real