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posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 04:56 AM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.


septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.


You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?


No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.


No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.


And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then


Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.


Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.


Nope no confusion at all.



I don't really expect the confused person to be capable of identifying their own confusion, or they'd be able to correct it.

Let's summarise.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.

Then you went on to tell me I was fixating on the EU, like it's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate when in ifact, it's the basis of your entire argument.

Still not confused?




posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 04:56 AM
link   
Plants from the EU have been in this country , grooming its ideas , for a very long time now . Sturgeon used to be spokewoman for the Health Protection Agency in 2009 ,

now she's been employed on another project : project hoodwink the Scots so they can control the Brits from parliamentary seats . Its the same project those old red tories used to work on : the 'screw the English at home ' project , developed here by the EPP.

You scots should get rid the SNP : they are not your nations advocates , but barefaced liars . Practised ones : The HPA indeed

@::eyes roll:@@



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 04:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.


septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.


You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?


No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.


No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.


And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then


Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.


Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.


Nope no confusion at all.



I don't really expect the confused person to be capable of identifying their own confusion, or they'd be able to correct it.

Let's summarise.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.

Then you went on to tell me I was fixating on the EU, like it's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate when in ifact, it's the basis of your entire argument.

Still not confused?


Only by your​ apparent inability to understand.



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 04:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Why is the UK leaving the EU then. Shouldn't we just have taken the bad with the good?




What! We've had 40 years of bad!! .... Its time NOW for some good.



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Why is the UK leaving the EU then. Shouldn't we just have taken the bad with the good?




What! We've had 40 years of bad!! .... Its time NOW for some good.


If we are going by time then I think 310 years wins that round of top trump's.



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:03 AM
link   

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

More opinion stated as fact.

I didn't vote based on any of that.

I've always been anti EU and pro UK and know many others who are.

I know others who are not...let's not beat around the bush. For years I had debates with certain people about this issue and was honest about it, it is, for many, and will always be anti-english sentiment based on crap like Braveheart.

We see evidence of this when they cry FREEDOM!

They exposed themselves recently when there was a game of football...of all things, England vs Scotland, and social medial was laden with crap about English b******* and photoes were posted of an aussie with a blue face.

Don't project your crap onto me. People know what they voted for, they don't need you or anyone else to tell them.


Wow, what a load of crap. What I wrote wasn't opinion presented as fact, it was actual facts. And the whole Braveheart thing is such a cliche. Usually spouted by Daily Mail readers as the whole reason we want to be independent...

I have loads of English friends, some of whom were behind Scottish Independence and some weren't, I fell out with one because he thought it was funny to be racist and spewing out hate filled speeches because there was even a referendum in the first place (I'd have fallen out with anyone who I considered a friend on those grounds).

As for the casual racism at Scotland v England football matches, that's par for the game, try going to a Scotland v England Rugby match, much more civilised and when the game is over all the fans, from both sides, drink and have a laugh together.
edit on 1/4/17 by djz3ro because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:03 AM
link   
Scotland just wants the most FREE cash it can get because really Scotland is just a drain on the uk anyway and little cranky shows it all



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:03 AM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.


septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.


You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?


No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.


No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.


And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then


Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.


Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.


Nope no confusion at all.



I don't really expect the confused person to be capable of identifying their own confusion, or they'd be able to correct it.

Let's summarise.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.

Then you went on to tell me I was fixating on the EU, like it's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate when in ifact, it's the basis of your entire argument.

Still not confused?


Only by your​ apparent inability to understand.


The mentality of the modern Scot - anyone who can't understand their twisted lack of logic has a problem...good for you, sir.

Have fun chasing your tail and talking out of your backside.



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:05 AM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Why is the UK leaving the EU then. Shouldn't we just have taken the bad with the good?




What! We've had 40 years of bad!! .... Its time NOW for some good.


If we are going by time then I think 310 years wins that round of top trump's.


Really...? you think its been 300 odd years of all bad, i think we have done pretty damn well for ourselves as the union even as small as a nation we are we are always in the top ten for pretty much everything.

Breaking the UK up will not improve this only impeded it.
edit on 1-4-2017 by nickovthenorth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:06 AM
link   

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nickovthenorth

Within the EU key decisions are still made by national governments. EU bureaucrats are no more in charge than Westminster civil servants are in the UK.

Besides which the main decision would then be in the power of Scotland. Whether to be in the EU or not.

OK What if Scotland get a second referendum vote and leave the UK, then vote on EU membership as you state above (if they will even accept Scotland as an independent country its not guaranteed by a long stretch) but the majority end up voting leave the EU also, where does that leave Scotland and the Scottish people....? I'll tell you where it leaves them up Sh*t creek without a paddle.


Nope, it will leave us in a position where we can forge our own path, without having to kowtow to anyone, it will be hard but it's one that might pay off in the long run. It means we will have 100% of our Whiskey Exports (currently any shipped out of English Ports go to the Westminster Government), it will mean we can decide our own laws, taxes and all the good stuff...



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:06 AM
link   
Here we go. More unionist wind and pish.



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.




There you go again, you've been told repeatedly this isn't the case but there you are spouting that again, it's sad really...



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

More opinion stated as fact.

I didn't vote based on any of that.

I've always been anti EU and pro UK and know many others who are.

I know others who are not...let's not beat around the bush. For years I had debates with certain people about this issue and was honest about it, it is, for many, and will always be anti-english sentiment based on crap like Braveheart.

We see evidence of this when they cry FREEDOM!

They exposed themselves recently when there was a game of football...of all things, England vs Scotland, and social medial was laden with crap about English b******* and photoes were posted of an aussie with a blue face.

Don't project your crap onto me. People know what they voted for, they don't need you or anyone else to tell them.[/quote

Wow, what a load of crap. What I wrote wasn't opinion presented as fact, it was actual facts. And the whole Braveheart thing is such a cliche. Usually spouted by Daily Mail readers as the whole reason we want to be independent...

I have loads of English friends, some of whom were behind Scottish Independence and some weren't, I fell out with one because he thought it was funny to be racist and spewing out hate filled speeches because there was even a referendum in the first place (I'd have fallen out with anyone who I considered a friend on those grounds).

As for the casual racism at Scotland v England football matches, that's par for the game, try going to a Scotland v England Rugby match, much more civilised and when the game is over all the fans, from both sides, drink and have a laugh together.


Did you intend to respond to my post ?

Oh, I see...you tried and failed - seems you somehow made your response part of the post you were quoting.

If what you are stating is fact, give evidence!

Or do your claims stand as evidence? Seems totally opinion based to me.

You know why it isn't true? For the reasons I gave - I voted, for none of the reasons you gave...

Your claims might be true for SOME people, not all, I don't need evidence....I AM evidence.
edit on 1-4-2017 by HeathenJessie because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:08 AM
link   

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.



There you go again, you've been told repeatedly this isn't the case but there you are spouting that again, it's sad really...



More crazy contradictions...have you read any of this thread?
edit on 1-4-2017 by HeathenJessie because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: Denoli
Scotland just wants the most FREE cash it can get because really Scotland is just a drain on the uk anyway and little cranky shows it all


Ha ha ha someone needs to do some research, if anything Scotland pays more per capita than the rest of the UK, but just you pretend you know what's really going on...



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nickovthenorth

Within the EU key decisions are still made by national governments. EU bureaucrats are no more in charge than Westminster civil servants are in the UK.

Besides which the main decision would then be in the power of Scotland. Whether to be in the EU or not.

OK What if Scotland get a second referendum vote and leave the UK, then vote on EU membership as you state above (if they will even accept Scotland as an independent country its not guaranteed by a long stretch) but the majority end up voting leave the EU also, where does that leave Scotland and the Scottish people....? I'll tell you where it leaves them up Sh*t creek without a paddle.


Nope, it will leave us in a position where we can forge our own path, without having to kowtow to anyone, it will be hard but it's one that might pay off in the long run. It means we will have 100% of our Whiskey Exports (currently any shipped out of English Ports go to the Westminster Government), it will mean we can decide our own laws, taxes and all the good stuff...


Yes it does, but it also means you face all the bad alone too which with such a small population as Scotland has could become far worse than any positives.

And this comment isn't meant to ridicule Scotland i'm just pointing out that in a relative sense Scotland has a small population base compared to the UK as a whole.
edit on 1-4-2017 by nickovthenorth because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-4-2017 by nickovthenorth because: realy should learn to proof read better



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.


septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.


You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?


No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.


No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.


And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then


Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.


Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.


Nope no confusion at all.



I don't really expect the confused person to be capable of identifying their own confusion, or they'd be able to correct it.

Let's summarise.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.

Then you went on to tell me I was fixating on the EU, like it's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate when in ifact, it's the basis of your entire argument.

Still not confused?


Only by your​ apparent inability to understand.


The mentality of the modern Scot - anyone who can't understand their twisted lack of logic has a problem...good for you, sir.

Have fun chasing your tail and talking out of your backside.


Thanks for showing your true colours.



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nickovthenorth

Within the EU key decisions are still made by national governments. EU bureaucrats are no more in charge than Westminster civil servants are in the UK.

Besides which the main decision would then be in the power of Scotland. Whether to be in the EU or not.

OK What if Scotland get a second referendum vote and leave the UK, then vote on EU membership as you state above (if they will even accept Scotland as an independent country its not guaranteed by a long stretch) but the majority end up voting leave the EU also, where does that leave Scotland and the Scottish people....? I'll tell you where it leaves them up Sh*t creek without a paddle.


Nope, it will leave us in a position where we can forge our own path, without having to kowtow to anyone, it will be hard but it's one that might pay off in the long run. It means we will have 100% of our Whiskey Exports (currently any shipped out of English Ports go to the Westminster Government), it will mean we can decide our own laws, taxes and all the good stuff...


Yes it does, but it also means you face all the bad alone too which with such a small population as Scotland has could become far worse than any positives.


They don't care about any of that, they have this crazy dream of giving two fingers to the establishment.

They think it will be all rosey, and care not the consequences for the people who disagree with them.

The opinions and petty desires of 45% of dreamers trumps common sense and reality...the only way they'll ever see how insane they are is when it's too late.

Even then they'll be incapable of being honest...they'll still argue that they were right. they're selfish, they want what they want regardless...and expect the rest of us should come along for the ride.

Scotland isn't brave, a nation of cowards and whingers.



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Why is the UK leaving the EU then. Shouldn't we just have taken the bad with the good?




What! We've had 40 years of bad!! .... Its time NOW for some good.


If we are going by time then I think 310 years wins that round of top trump's.


Really...? you think its been 300 odd years of all bad, i think we have done pretty damn well for ourselves as the union even as small as a nation we are we are always in the top ten for pretty much everything.

Breaking the UK up will not improve this only impeded it.


No i don't think it was all bad but nor do i think our membership of the the EU was all bad as the post i replied said.



posted on Apr, 1 2017 @ 05:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

Did you intend to respond to my post ?

Oh, I see...you tried and failed - seems you somehow made your response part of the post you were quoting.

If what you are stating is fact, give evidence!

Or do your claims stand as evidence? Seems totally opinion based to me.

You know why it isn't true? For the reasons I gave - I voted, for none of the reasons you gave...

Your claims might be true for SOME people, not all, I don't need evidence....I AM evidence.


I fixed my editing error and it's funny you pull me up for an editing error and then make the same mistake. And just because you voted "No" for other reeasons doesn't mean everyone else did, that's just daft even suggesting that...
edit on 1/4/17 by djz3ro because: of that bloody missing "]"



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