Dear Scotland,

originally posted by: DrBobH

So nobody wants a referendum now:-

www.bbc.co.uk...

A referendum in the next 18-24 months is what she wants so that pretty much means pre-Brexit give or take a couple of days.

Obviously The First Minister (I don't need to resort to petty name calling) wants to wait and see what the deal is like before making a decision. Although truth be told even if we got the greatest deal ever she would still want to leave.

Personally I think we will get a good deal, Germany and France will have new leaders with different rhetoric to Merkel and Hollande.

I'm happy if you guys want to seek independence just hold your horses until after Brexit as there is nothing to be gained by pushing for it now.

18-24 months isn't right now though, she's wanting to wait 'til we know what Brexit will mean for the whole UK before the Referendum. I believe that Sturgeon wouldn't hold a Referendum if it turned out we got an amazing deal out of Brexit but if it's just an ok deal, she would.

I'm glad you could post without having to resort to calling Sturgeon names, that's becoming so tiresome. Sorry if I seemed overly defensive with my first reply to you,this thread has been full of people who feel the need to go on the attack, as opposed to just discussing things...

originally posted by: andy06shake

That being said, i cant see how we will be stronger together after Brexit never mind that a significant percentage of our population do not wish for Brexit to take place and hate the fact that Westminster meddles in our affairs.

We voted as a whole? Didn't we?

You know the UK consisting of England Scotland Ireland and Wales.

Seems like some people voted for a country and not as the UK

Fact of the matter is i don't want Theresa May to rule over us anymore than i wish Nicola Sturgeon to be First Minister but Independence is far more preferable than Westminster ruling from 100s of miles away.

Fact is Teresa May is leader of the party that was democratically voted in

to power at the last election she doesn't take decisions on her own,

and she will only be there while the majority of those who vote

are satisified with her performance. And before anyone says they didn't vote

for her as PM .... it is the party who chooses their leader not the people!


You don't want to be ruled by Westminster some

300 miles away, But by Brussels in another country some further 232 miles

away!!

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Can't disagree Solo...hey can you imagine the outrage if we had a vote on the monarchy?

Remember James the V1 of Scotland? He was also James 1st of England

and it was he who coined Great Britain.


A lesson in history.....We have connections going back century's

www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: eletheia

We may consist of 3 different nations that make up our United Kingdom but they are very different places with there own political ideologies, the time for change is apparent and a requirement really.

I would rather remain part of the European Union as would the majority of the people who hail form these parts, that's the fact of the matter.

I want to be ruled by a government elected and comprised of people, from my own nation, that cannot be overruled or kowtowed by others 300 odd miles away in what amounts to another country.

And no we did not vote for Teresa May nor the the Conservative Party currently in power because after all statistically speaking Scottish votes count toward very little regarding the general election.

And if we are allowed to have another referendum i imagine the outcome will be rather different given the fact that Brexit now looms on the table. Lets face it if that particular foible had been on known to be in the post before the last referendum i imagine the numbers may have been swayed towards the YES vote really.

So no i don't wish to be ruled form Westminster and would choose the EU Brussels influence over our society rather than Toryism Westminster rule any day of the week as would rather a significant percentage of the people of Scotland.

originally posted by: andy06shake


We may consist of 3 different nations that make up our United Kingdom but they are very different places with there own political ideologies, the time for change is apparent and a requirement really.

Its four actually.

I would rather remain part of the European Union as would the majority of the people who hail form these parts, that's the fact of the matter.

There were many areas in England, maybe Wales and Ireland too where the

majority wanted to remain..... However overall the vast majority in

the United Kingdom voted to leave.... that's democracy working!!?

I want to be ruled by a government elected and comprised of people, from my own nation, that cannot be overruled or kowtowed by others 300 odd miles away in what amounts to another country.

You are ....'The Scottish Parliament', mostly consisting of SNP's ?

You also have representation of Scottish MP's in Westminster. Indeed I

have watched Alex Salmond on Prime Ministers questions time

a reply to: eletheia

"Its four actually."

Well lets face it Ireland, northern Ireland, does not wish to depart the EU ether really.

And i don't think most Welsh people are to chuffed about the prospect nether.

End of the day buddy Westminster is still the tail that wags the Scottish dog, lots of us simply don't hold with that notion, and if we are given another referendum we will probobly choose to depart the United Kingdom.

There are no hard feelings we just don't want to be ruled from England really, or should i say London because that's where the power currently resides.

So, question for the Scots who want to leave the UK and stick with the EU.

Are you prepared to have the euro as your currency? If you want independence from England then you need to either have your own currency or take the Euro. I absolutely don't believe that you should get to vote out of the UK and then keep the benefits of our currency. So, are you willing to adopt the Euro as part of your 'independence'?

ETA:

All deal's that exist between us and the EU were done with the UK as a whole. Therefore, if you leave you will have to 'renegotiate'. The UK has a number of special condition's and opt outs that other EU countries don't. Those would go with the vote to leave the UK. Then you're left with having to accept 100% of the conditions of membership just like the rest of the EU. Are you prepared to do that?

a reply to: Indrasweb

Actually the Scot's already have there own currency, the Scottish pound, all that would happen is that they would decouple the currency from the English currency and an exchange rate would then be applied along with tariff's etc.
Did you know the bank of England is not even our's, there is no Bank of Britain and like the Bank of Scotland it is essentially a private institution owned by the Rothschild's.

a reply to: Indrasweb

Whats wrong with retaining our own Scottish Pound?

After all when the UK joined European Union it did not adopt the Euro currency.

Why should an independent Scotland be any different?

a reply to: LABTECH767

Alright, then the Scottish pound it is. Thanks for the reply.

Best of luck chaps

What say you regarding the 'all-in' with the EU conditions type of situation if you choose to leave?
(Of which accepting the euro is one. I'm pretty sure they made an exception in our case for the 5th largest economy in the world but, sure, they might do the same for Scotland )

a reply to: Indrasweb

I think Germany are ahead of us economically sized speaking and they dropped there Deutsche Mark and adopted the Euro seemingly by choice.

Point is if they had wanted to keep there own currency i imagine they would have been extended the same courtesy as the UK, so economic size might not be the be all and end all regarding any decision on the matter.

After all there are other factors to consider.

After independence Scotland will use the same currency that England pays us for our Oil, Gas, Fish, Whisky, Salmon and water etc....yip, The Pound. It's as much Scotland's Currency as it is England Northern Ireland and Wales.

Or we can just use the Smackeroonie. It'll probably be worth more than the pound after Brexit anyway.

a reply to: eletheia

Remember James the V1 of Scotland? He was also James 1st of England

and it was he who coined Great Britain.

A lesson in history.....We have connections going back century's

I think history is important but sometimes it should remain as such. I am glad we have connections, both in the past and in the present. That doesn't mean that I have to endorse the idea of royalty in any way shape or form.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

There's a possibility they'll vote to remain in the EU but they should be able to make that decision.

Why do you think Scotland has an opportunity to vote to stay in the EU? The EU itself has said that there is no guarantee that Scotland would be accepted into the EU as a solo country based on a) its budget deficit and b) as it sends a strong precedent to other areas such as the Basque state. Scotland will at some point get another vote on whether to stay in the UK. If the majority of people living in Scotland choose not to stay, that doesn't mean they stay within the EU in and of itself.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Whilst Scotland would be free to keep using Sterling they would have no control over it whatsoever. For example a number of countries outside of the US use the $.

The Scottish bank notes used today if kept would be a new currency on the global market. They could be pegged vs Sterling but in likelihood they would be rapidly devalued.

In effect the current Scottish notes without the backing of the Bank of England would likely disappear and you'd be stuck with a choice between adopting English notes or the Euro.

As I've said to other posters I'm happy for you guys to give it a go on your own. The issue for me is timing and the talk and build up to another referendum in the middle of Brexit negotiations would not be beneficial in any way whatsoever.

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Southern Guardian

There's a possibility they'll vote to remain in the EU but they should be able to make that decision.

Why do you think Scotland has an opportunity to vote to stay in the EU? The EU itself has said that there is no guarantee that Scotland would be accepted into the EU as a solo country based on a) its budget deficit and b) as it sends a strong precedent to other areas such as the Basque state. Scotland will at some point get another vote on whether to stay in the UK. If the majority of people living in Scotland choose not to stay, that doesn't mean they stay within the EU in and of itself.

Other than Some spaniard, who in the Eu has said Scotland has no guarantee it wont be accepted.? Even Junckers doesn't see a problem with Scotland being allowed either to continue it's membership or be allowed entry as it already meets the criteria required for entry.

And you can talk about Scotlands Deficit all you want, On the morning after we get independence Scotland would be entitled to 8.6 of all UK's £8 trillion assets... So who's gonna be in the #...Looks very much like England from where i'm sitting. Our deficit would be wiped out over night and we would very much be in the black with plenty to spare.

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Southern Guardian

There's a possibility they'll vote to remain in the EU but they should be able to make that decision.

Why do you think Scotland has an opportunity to vote to stay in the EU? The EU itself has said that there is no guarantee that Scotland would be accepted into the EU as a solo country based on a) its budget deficit and b) as it sends a strong precedent to other areas such as the Basque state. Scotland will at some point get another vote on whether to stay in the UK. If the majority of people living in Scotland choose not to stay, that doesn't mean they stay within the EU in and of itself.

To the best of my knowledge there has never been an official EU position one way or the other.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
Scottish people should stop looking at the EU referendum as a scottish vote, it wasn't - the UK voted as a single entity...this was decided before the EU referendum when 55% of Scots voted to remain part of the union.

EU ref wasn't a Scottish vote.

It really pisses me off, that we have an ignorant and selfish 45% who believe they have more rights than the majority.

They pretend they're patriotic, yet they'd happily see the wishes of the majority be trodden on and ignored.

Westminster SHOULD block another indy ref, they'd be acting on behalf of the eloctorate if they did.

What kind of patriot doesn't respect the rights and wishes of 55% of the nation they pretend they care so much about?

Aren't people allowed to change their minds?

Why do we bother keep having elections? Should still have the Whig party in charge.

Who said people have changed their minds?

By that standard we should have a referendum every couple of years forever.

Tell me, if the nationalists finally get their way and win...will the unionists be able to call for an equal number of referendums to reform the union?

How many should we have before we decide enough is enough?

By these standars, if Scots get another referendum and win..that's two chances they were given...so we can then have two more referendums in favour of unionisation...fair's fair, right?

Who has changed their mind? I haven't...

Don't you think leaving the EU counts a major change of circumstances?

For who?

For pretty much everyone in the UK i would imagine.

Exaclty...the UK - not Scotland.

The UK voted in the EU referendum...and they voted to leave.

So what's your point? The people are getting what the majority voted for...again, this is called democracy, it's not hard...is it?

And the majority of Scotland voted to stay in the EU.

Given the magnitude of the decision do you not think democracy would entail at least giving Scotland the choice of what is more important, staying in the the UK or staying in the EU?

When did that become a binary decision? There is absolutely no guarantee that Scotland would stay in the EU - you know that, and I know you are way too smart to take Sturgeons pipedream as fact.

Sorry, I voted to remain and I can't say I'm happy that the real project fear won, but it did. If Scotland had voted with the same percentage numbers as Gibraltar to stay I would have more empathy, but it didn't.

a reply to: DrBobH

Continue to use sterling for a transitional period before switching to a new Scots currency.

Joining the Euro in its current form would be a very bad idea.

The Scots should vote however they want in whatever way they deem is in their best interests, it's nobody else's business really. Good luck to em whichever way they go.