Dear Scotland,

originally posted by: ZIPMATT

The EPP is much closerr to home than you think ,: read the list of member parties on wiki : the EPP has majority if not absolute control in Europe , and strangely , on the wiki page at least , apparently none in the UK . Don't forget wikipedia is subject to change at any time:

en.wikipedia.org...

Perhaps , someone , recently , quietly , banned the EPP from this country :

everyone should know what and who EPP is : the whole of Europe's populace should know this , and get their countries from them , now , as in right now asap

Well there's one issue, you're quoting Wikipedia, I've gone straight to the source which I trust more than the user-edited Wikipedia, I coud edit that article stating that I, Prime Minister of Northmuir, am a member of the EPP...

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
I spent a lot of last week talking with a young guy from Glasgow who was on the same course as me. He more a less said the exact thing as you have posted word for word. He said the vast majority of Scots are sick and tired of Sturgeon and want the Scottish parliament, that they once had such high hopes for, to fix the much more serious public services problems that Scotland faces.

Things are as close now as they were during the last Referendum, the thing is people tend to be friends with people who are like themselves, I know a helluva lot of people and only a handful voted No, his social networks are likely full with people like him and only knows a handful who voted Yes.

Either way it's a misnomer to say that "the vast majority of Scots are sick and tired of Sturgeon" as much as it would be to say that the vast majority of Scots are sick and tired of being in the UK. I don't think anyone can make up their mind what they want until we know what the Brexit deal is (or isn't).

There is a chance that even I could be convinced Brexit will be good for all of the UK, I dont think a Tory PM will be able to do that though...

It is good for all of the Uk , and , Islanders remember . These are the British Isles .
There seems to be a lot of hangers on the 'see what the deal is' kind of thing but that is ONLY really about trade . Cameron already refused an EU bill . Do you remmeber that ?

A tory PM WAS able to do that , and what's more the dealing has been done , very recently : Theresa May sent the letter , it's been handed to Tusk , that's it , signed sealed , delivered . David and George are the new saints of the blessed country , selah !

*adds extra gorgonzola to pizza

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Can't disagree Solo...hey can you imagine the outrage if we had a vote on the monarchy?

I have no beef to grind with the Monarchy. I would like to see them live within their means mind though.

Me neither but it is one of those institutions I would rather do without. I have no time for Kings and Queens, nor any hereditary title for that matter, they have no place in a modern society, that's just my opinion though.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
So it's not about patriotism but you speak about a Scottish budget?

You are aware that Scotland has a devolved government and they get Tax Revenue to spend on Scottish Services, right? It's not about patriotism, it's about getting the money we really should be getting so we can spend it on services and imporve our failing health service and schools etc.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
Why separate budgets for nations that are supposedly part of a union?

For someone who claims to be Scottish you ask a lot of questions you should know the answer to. We have a seperate budget because we have our own government now.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
You speak of dealing with Scotlands social problems...what about the rest of the UK, are they problem free?

No but Westminster aren't going to do anything about it so it's about time we had the power to fix it ourselves...

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
Patriotism isn't just about waving a saltire and cheering on a football team, it's in everything you say and do. You don't think or speak from the persepctive of someone who is part of a bigger nation or union. You self-identify as a Scot, you're inherently patriotic.

My decision to support Independence comes from a fact based place, not my love of my country...

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

Exactly...so how can you even take part in this debate without the EU playing a huge part in the argument?

It's almost impossible to take part in this discussion without the EU featuring heavily in the argument.

Eh? You're the only one who claims Sceptic has made any remarks about this not being about the EU, he's pointed that out many times and you're just ignoring that.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
you really are an idiot.

Pot. Kettle.Black...

a reply to: HeathenJessie

I completely agree.

The UK voted to leave the EU and has triggered Article 50, the process is irreversible and in 2 years we will be free. What part of that do some Scottish people not understand, even if you gain independence before then they will still be outside of the EU. Nothing you can do will change that fact.

Holding a referendum now achieves nothing except disruption, divide and distraction. A UK divided and weakened will not get the best deal.

Accept the facts we voted to leave, get on with the process, get the best deal we can and then have your referendum.

If you think you'll get back into the EU in a heartbeat you are mistaken, there are enough EU countries with potential break away regions that oppose it.

Sabotage the talks now and you'll be paying for it for a long time.

People should stop listening to Nicola Sturgeon and start listening to Ruth Davidson who in my opinion as a proud Brit is a potential PM that I would happily see in number 10.

Bob

a reply to: djz3ro

if you're quoting their website and i'm quoting wiki , there is no membership of the EPP currently in Britain , from two sources.
It'll be an extremely sensitive subject on the private level to the central players (in my paraniod and deluded mind that is lol)
, or was that in actual reality ?

As I said , the 'deal' we the British Islanders broke with EPP members like Tusk who hand 60 odd billion euro bills to the uk , and other countries , is that
we say to the EU , all together , "No , we are not paying anything to you on your say so , simple as that , don't like it ? Then we'll break your plans because you are tyrants.

Exactly as Cameron did , not so very long ago. He refused Tusk his money , paid a bit of it later to cut the flak , then got the Tory party out of the EPP and then us, England Scotland and Awales TOGETHER out of the EU , just like that .

He , they , are national heroes in my mind , and , the deals been done ,

originally posted by: DrBobH
The UK voted to leave the EU and has triggered Article 50, the process is irreversible and in 2 years we will be free. What part of that do some Scottish people not understand, even if you gain independence before then they will still be outside of the EU. Nothing you can do will change that fact.

We do understand that though, there is no option to stay in the E.U but if the Scottish people wanted to, if we become independent we can see about joining the single market or even becoming full EU members. Of course we could also just do our own thing, something we can't do whil being ruled from Westminster...

originally posted by: DrBobH
Holding a referendum now achieves nothing except disruption, divide and distraction. A UK divided and weakened will not get the best deal.

Good thing nobody wants to hold a Referendum now then! The plan is in 2 years, once we know what Brexit actually means and before we actually leave the E.U....

originally posted by: DrBobH
Accept the facts we voted to leave, get on with the process, get the best deal we can and then have your referendum.

Did you not get the memo? That's exactly what Sturgeon is proposing, she's never said she wants a snap Referendum right now...

originally posted by: DrBobH
If you think you'll get back into the EU in a heartbeat you are mistaken, there are enough EU countries with potential break away regions that oppose it.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions in that respect to be fair. There is of course the line of thinking (vocalised by an Italian Journalist on the BBC news one night) that the UK isn't the popular kid on the block now that they've gone down the Article 50 route and that Scotland might be warmly welcomed to stick one up to the UK and because Scotland voting for Independence and then asking back to the E.U would cast a better light on the E.U after one of it's founding nations has left, casting a shadow over the whole thing.

originally posted by: DrBobH
Sabotage the talks now and you'll be paying for it for a long time.

The only talk I hear of sabotageing Brexit are from opponents of Independence on this very thread...

originally posted by: DrBobH
People should stop listening to Nicola Sturgeon and start listening to Ruth Davidson who in my opinion as a proud Brit is a potential PM that I would happily see in number 10.

Ha ha ha she is a nasty little Gobsh!te, I don't think she has a "look" that isn't smug. I'd rather listen to War & Peace read by Stephen Hawking than a single word from her. Hopefully if we get independence she'll move South of the border, the sooner we see the back of her in Scottish Politics the better...

a reply to: ScepticScot

And people you speak to are the whole of the electorate ?

The people of Scotland do not want another referendum . It's that simple . It's divisive and we remember just how divisive it is as the last one was 3 years ago.

If the snp had used their time in power to turn Scotland into a modern utopia things may be different but the simple facts are under snp rule our debts have increased dramatically for a decrease in effective services. What's more there are some seriously dodgy laws trying to be railroaded through a la named guardians which is nothing more than a pederasts charter . This is what your fuehrer and her cronies are trying to force on us .

You are entitled to your opinion but you are out of touch . Like Sturgeon. Did you see the deafening support outside the parliament the other night after voting for another divisive referendum ? .... highly unlikely as there were about 30 fools there ... surely if it was so important and close to the public hearts there would have been thousands ?

You're out of touch and are confusing the internal strife of the labour party and a traditional hatred of tories as support for nationalism .

originally posted by: Semidemigod
a reply to: ScepticScot

And people you speak to are the whole of the electorate ?

The people of Scotland do not want another referendum . It's that simple . It's divisive and we remember just how divisive it is as the last one was 3 years ago.

If the snp had used their time in power to turn Scotland into a modern utopia things may be different but the simple facts are under snp rule our debts have increased dramatically for a decrease in effective services. What's more there are some seriously dodgy laws trying to be railroaded through a la named guardians which is nothing more than a pederasts charter . This is what your fuehrer and her cronies are trying to force on us .

You are entitled to your opinion but you are out of touch . Like Sturgeon. Did you see the deafening support outside the parliament the other night after voting for another divisive referendum ? .... highly unlikely as there were about 30 fools there ... surely if it was so important and close to the public hearts there would have been thousands ?

You're out of touch and are confusing the internal strife of the labour party and a traditional hatred of tories as support for nationalism .

Where did I say that? If want another referendum because that is the only way to truly know what the electorate want. Not my opinion, not yours, not some random who happened to get stopped by a TV crew.

Not one claiming that Scotland is it could be a utopia so that is a strawman.

Also not sure how a law giving better child protection is a pederast charter?

Personally i didn't find the referendum in Scotland divisive. On the contrary I thought the increased level of political activity and awareness was the best thing to have happened to Scottish politics in years.

I am far from convinced that Yes would win a new referendum. In an ideal world I think it should be at least 5-10 years yet before the question was considered again. However the brexit vite has changed things dramatically and i think another referendum is entirely appropriate.

originally posted by: Semidemigod
And people you speak to are the whole of the electorate ?

The people of Scotland do not want another referendum . It's that simple . It's divisive and we remember just how divisive it is as the last one was 3 years ago.

You pull up one person for speaking for the whole of the electorate and follow that up by assuming to speak for all of Scotland, do you understand the word "Irony"?

originally posted by: Semidemigod
If the snp had used their time in power to turn Scotland into a modern utopia things may be different but the simple facts are under snp rule our debts have increased dramatically for a decrease in effective services.

It's kind of hard for them to do much when their hands are tied by the red tape of Westminster. I wonder if you would be singing the same tune if Labour or Conservative held the majority of seats in Scotland?

originally posted by: Semidemigod
What's more there are some seriously dodgy laws trying to be railroaded through a la named guardians which is nothing more than a pederasts charter . This is what your fuehrer and her cronies are trying to force on us .

You do realise the "Named Person Scheme" was actually the brainchild of Parents and Children, not the Scottish Government? I don't agree with it either but am waiting to see what ammendments are made before I decide if that position stands but I wasn't a supporter of the first draft of it.

originally posted by: Semidemigod
a reply to: ScepticScot

If the snp had used their time in power to turn Scotland into a modern utopia things may be different but the simple facts are under snp rule our debts have increased dramatically for a decrease in effective services.

How can Scotland accumulate a debt when it doesn't have the power to ask for loans outside the UK, Just who do we owe this debt to?.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Semidemigod
a reply to: ScepticScot

If the snp had used their time in power to turn Scotland into a modern utopia things may be different but the simple facts are under snp rule our debts have increased dramatically for a decrease in effective services.

How can Scotland accumulate a debt when it doesn't have the power to ask for loans outside the UK, Just who do we owe this debt to?.

I think it's our share of the debt run up bombing brown people and building nuclear weapons.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Semidemigod
a reply to: ScepticScot

If the snp had used their time in power to turn Scotland into a modern utopia things may be different but the simple facts are under snp rule our debts have increased dramatically for a decrease in effective services.

How can Scotland accumulate a debt when it doesn't have the power to ask for loans outside the UK, Just who do we owe this debt to?.

Wonga.com ?

a reply to: ScepticScot

I've no intention of arguing in circles with you as you and heathenjessie just did . I've got better things to do with my afternoon.

We had a divisive referendum 3 years ago . Sturgeon herself said it was once in a generation vote . The only thing that's changed is Brexit which gave OUR islanders back their fish . Have you even considered that they may now want to leave us just to keep them ?

How have the snp improved the life in Scotland for the average working scot ? I can answer that for you . They haven't. Lifting tolls off the skye bridge and continuing Donald dewars borders railway is good but not when you see how long it's taken them to get there .

What I think you fail to realise is that almost all of us voted in 2014 . By the Brexit vote we were almost back to the same voter apathy we usually have .... which means if you read between the lines the average scot doesn't really care about the eu .

Have the last word by all means but you're still wrong .

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Our children . Who have just been shortchanged to the tune of 1 billion .

a reply to: djz3ro

I understand irony fine . That's why I don't want to leave the UK to be swallowed up by an even bigger nightmare a la eu .

Perhaps if after the last referendum Sturgeon and salmond had , like proud Edward , went home and thought again about how to persuade the Scots who voted against them , they may have got somewhere .

a reply to: djz3ro

So nobody wants a referendum now:-

www.bbc.co.uk...

A referendum in the next 18-24 months is what she wants so that pretty much means pre-Brexit give or take a couple of days.

Obviously The First Minister (I don't need to resort to petty name calling) wants to wait and see what the deal is like before making a decision. Although truth be told even if we got the greatest deal ever she would still want to leave.

Personally I think we will get a good deal, Germany and France will have new leaders with different rhetoric to Merkel and Hollande.

I'm happy if you guys want to seek independence just hold your horses until after Brexit as there is nothing to be gained by pushing for it now.

a reply to: Semidemigod

As i said i don't believe it was divisive.

Also as i said i think the only way to know how people feel is to have a vote on it.

I also said i don't particularly think it would be yes vote.

I don't support the SNP on everything but the results of the few elections suggest most people are pretty happy with their performance.

Not 100%sure what you believe I am wrong about but have a most pleasant afternoon anyway.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I think you're wrong about indyref2 not being divisive . I also think you're wrong to want another vote so soon after the last .

Thanks for wishing me a pleasant afternoon and I wish the same to you too .