Conclusion is the Simple Answer - Finding the Absolute God of Creation

a reply to: namelesss

You referenced "Christ is" in your comments, so I naturally referenced the source material to know anything on the topic. If you cannot accept the source material on the topic, then you have little reference to knowledge on the subject. I did love the Rumi quote. It's right on the money. Negate all that stands as a stumbling block to love and realization of it. Truly, this is the only way to end the concept and illusion of death.

Why do you accept Rumi on any subject if books are error filled? I find many contradictions in the words of Rumi. His Muslim dogma often stands in the way of his pure thought from mysticism. Just like the Bible, both truth and error stand together as flowers and weeds. This is true for any graven image of God. This does not deny the presence of truth. It does, however, confirm your quote from Rumi.

“Your task is not to seek for Love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi

If we reference Christ in any way, we need to go to the voices that claimed to know the topic. Paul was the voice, but this does not mean he knew what he was conceptualizing. Neither do we know if Rumi knew what he was saying either, which is a good reason to follow the trail where it leads.

Paul's words here are valuable from 1 Corinthians 13.

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

I also like this one from Paul, agreeing with his understanding.

2 Corinthians 13

8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.

Truth is always true. There is no way to invalidate truth, but there is a way to find truth from within a husk holding it. We make bread from weeds. Grain does not mind being held up by the chaff, neither does the stalk know what it constitutes. It happily stand in place lifting the truth into the light. Weeds have value, even if their beauty is not the same as a flower. Usefulness comes from harvesting for value, not merely utility.

originally posted by: DayAfterTomorrow
a reply to: namelesss

You referenced "Christ is" in your comments, so I naturally referenced the source material to know anything on the topic.

For 'you' to know anything on the material, or for 'me' to know anything...?
Seems to me that you wouldn't need to refer yourself to your scriptures, are you trying to say that someone cannot Know Christ unless he is proficient in your scriptures?
That seems to be what you are bringing here.
If I am making a point using experience and/or logic, coming up with some dissonant quote from that scriptural Frankenstein of a bible/NT is not likely to make me suddenly believe that people can levitate, unaided, in their carnal bodies...

If you cannot accept the source material on the topic, then you have little reference to knowledge on the subject.

Please allow me to educate you as to the meaning/definition of 'Knowledge';

The new, critically updated, all inclusive, Universal definition of 'Knowledge';

"'Knowledge' is 'that which is perceived', Here! Now!!"

All inclusive!

That which is perceived by the unique individual Perspective is 'knowledge'.
All we can 'know' is what we perceive, Now! and Now! and Now!!!

'Ignorance' is that which is NOT perceived, at any particular moment, by any particular unique Perspective! Here! Now!

That means that an intellectual understanding (egoic) of what is written about a topic, is Knowledge/experience of a book, and the words you interpret within.

Throughout history (t)here have been people who have become Enlightened/unconditionally Loving.
If you believe that Jesus had a 'historical' existence, then he'd certainly have been one, no?
These people have Knowledge of which you know nothing.
And you have Knowledge of which Jesus would know nothing.
Unless in Love, We become One! *__-

"What a man loves, he is. If he loves a stone he is that stone, if he loves a person he is that person, if he loves God - nay, I durst not say more; were I to say, he is God, he might stone me. I do but teach you the scriptures." - Meister Eckhart

I did love the Rumi quote. It's right on the money. Negate all that stands as a stumbling block to love and realization of it.

Great! Here's another of my favs;

"Be empty of what you know
Your clever mind just whips up
A dust storm of pride.
Allow yourself to be fooled and
peace clowns its way into your heart.

If your head would shatter in wonder
at what Reality really is,
reason’s tyranny would end and
every hair on your head would
become an oracle" - Rumi

Truly, this is the only way to end the concept and illusion of death.

Heh.. any moment that there are no thoughts going by, any Zen moment, there is neither the 'illusion' nor concept of 'death'!!
As it is really not possible to check it out, because the moment 'thought/ego' fills your awareness, so the 'illusion' and concept of 'death' reappears. For awareness of thought, there must be thought (and it's contents, like 'feelings'...)...
"When 'sin' (ego/vanity/Pride... 'thought') entered the world, so has 'death', with it!" - bible, somewhere

Why do you accept Rumi on any subject if books are error filled?

My acceptance of Rumi's experience (and I DON'T accept everything on any subject, if for no other reason that I am unfamiliar with much of his work, and I can't stand poetry (which is a bit ironic...)), is because in reading his experience, I can perceive that he is telling my tale, as well.
Many have a clearer voice, more beautiful... than mine, and when I hear that there are others who have gone through 'this stuff', it's a warm feeling, and in 'accepting' myself, I would necessarily accept his parallel experience as One with mine.
(There are many levels of 'acceptance'.
For instance, Knowing that Truth is ALL inclusive, no matter what I perceive, it is Truth!
And I 'accept' it as such, on that overarching level.)

So, if there is a 'violation error' sign come popping up while I am reading some tome, and some critical examination and experience tells me that it is disharmonious with the rest of the tone of the book (I am very familiar with the book in question, having read it multiple times, most of them while awake! *__- ), and I see the 'fruits' being dark and toxic (in a tome of purported Light), I might call that an error.
A verse that breeds hatefulness, for instance, as opposed to the verses/teachings on unconditional Love/Enlightenment, Jesus' entire raison d'etre!
So, just because it's in a book (anyone can write a book!) doesn't make it 'fruitful' or 'true' in the context/conditions of the book.
Without experience/Knowledge, though, there is no rudder, and that might be at the basis of the 'clinging to the mast' of the literalists/fundamentalists.

I find many contradictions in the words of Rumi. His Muslim dogma often stands in the way of his pure thought from mysticism.

I'm sure that you know more of Rumi's work than I do, so, perhaps if you had a question re; one of those 'apparent contradictions', I'd be happy to help! *__-
The highest state in mysticism is the Enlightened/unconditionally Loving state of Oneness/Universality, Nirvana, in which there is no 'ego'/thoughts, 'pure' or otherwise, because there is no 'time', no 'space', no 'life', no 'death'... and no 'thoughts'!
The conditional becomes meaningless (thoughtless) in the transcendental, 'unconditional' state of unconditional Love! *__-

Just like the Bible, both truth and error stand together as flowers and weeds.

What mindful gardner would allow weeds to grow amidst the flowers?
What parent keeps the poison next to the Coco Puffs?!?

If we reference Christ in any way, we need to go to the voices that claimed to know the topic.

When I use the word Christ, I reference unconditional Love/Enlightenment. Nirvana, Heaven, whatever... all means the same thing.
'I' Know the topic.

"What a man loves, he is. If he loves a stone he is that stone, if he loves a person he is that person, if he loves God - nay, I durst not say more; were I to say, he is God, he might stone me. I do but teach you the scriptures." - Meister Eckhart

Paul was the voice,

Not because it said so in the NT! *__-
If his words were of Truth, then he has to Know (Be One with) Christ/be Enlightened.

but this does not mean he knew what he was conceptualizing. Neither do we know if Rumi knew what he was saying either, which is a good reason to follow the trail where it leads.

There have been/are many who have gone through the door at the bottom of the rabbit hole, who live the Light that you are reading about.
Experience/Knowledge can read something and Know if someone is blowing wind, at least within the context of the experience.
Hence 'pastors' and 'gurus'.
The guide needs to have made the trip and returned.
A book is better than nothing (or I wouldn't have read them all! *__- )

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)

There have been/are many who have gone through the door at the bottom of the rabbit hole, who live the Light that you are reading about. Experience/Knowledge can read something and Know if someone is blowing wind, at least within the context of the experience.
Hence 'pastors' and 'gurus'.

a reply to: namelesss

RIGHT on.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

There have been/are many who have gone through the door at the bottom of the rabbit hole, who live the Light that you are reading about. Experience/Knowledge can read something and Know if someone is blowing wind, at least within the context of the experience.
Hence 'pastors' and 'gurus'.

a reply to: namelesss

RIGHT on.

Nice that you find meaning in my words!
You must be quite intelligent and handsome! *__-

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

There have been/are many who have gone through the door at the bottom of the rabbit hole, who live the Light that you are reading about. Experience/Knowledge can read something and Know if someone is blowing wind, at least within the context of the experience.
Hence 'pastors' and 'gurus'.

a reply to: namelesss

RIGHT on.

Nice that you find meaning in my words!
You must be quite intelligent and handsome! *__-

I found very much meaning in all of what you wrote. Though, I wouldn't call myself handsome (since I'm a woman)...hope I'm considered pretty, though.
You think deeply, and I truly found it beautiful. Plus, it resonated with me on many levels.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

There have been/are many who have gone through the door at the bottom of the rabbit hole, who live the Light that you are reading about. Experience/Knowledge can read something and Know if someone is blowing wind, at least within the context of the experience.
Hence 'pastors' and 'gurus'.

a reply to: namelesss

RIGHT on.

Nice that you find meaning in my words!
You must be quite intelligent and handsome! *__-

I found very much meaning in all of what you wrote. Though, I wouldn't call myself handsome (since I'm a woman)...hope I'm considered pretty, though.

You think deeply, and I truly found it beautiful. Plus, it resonated with me on many levels.

Thank you for the kind words!
I do not know about 'pretty', but I do Know 'beautiful'!
I think that 'beautiful' transcends gender distinctions, no?
It takes the eye of Love to see that Beauty! *__-

a reply to: dfnj2015
Your argumentation leads to or boils down to trying to convince everyone is delusional because you believe that you are delusional making delusional comments with words that are delusions.

Way to make sense.

Adversary and Source, respectively.