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originally posted by: conspiracy nut
i think the problem is that western civilization was forced on populations of africans who were and are still not ready and maybe never will be ready for it. who are we to force our way of life on people who have lived their way for 1000's of years. who is to say our way is better? we forced our ways in order to exploit their land and resources and now we are complaining about a problem we created. we shouldn't even be there to begin with, we should have left them to live their own lives as they saw fit.
originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: conspiracy nut
With regard to ancient civilisations, whilst of course it is possible, there is no evidence to support the supposition (I don't include Egyp & Nubia in this post). There has been a huge movement online in the main, to prove that African was more advanced than Europeans or Arab nations but there seems to be very little proof and many many rumours and downright hoaxes, including the assertion that the Annunki landed there first and led the Africans into technologically advanced nations, but again not a shred of proof other than Afro-centric websites. There were some advanced civilisations in North Africa such as Carthage which was created from a smaller Phoenican city but as is known, Carthage was then re-invented by the Romans.
The 13th century King of Ethiopia Yekuno Amlak claimed that he was descended from ancient Africans and the biblical King Solomon & the Queen of Sheba and a civilisation they created called Aksum (Ethiopia being the first country to adopt christianity). Whilst it is believed that the ancient civilisation he spoke of may have existed, it seems from the limited evidence available that again, this civilisation was kickstarted by Arabs and in particularly Yemenis albeit ancient ones called Sabaeans, and was eventually wiped out due to political fragmentation and the overthrow of the Monarchy by a Jewish Queen (whose name escapes me sorry) however, Ethiopia does still remain a major Christian centre and also still has a large jewish population and remains the only African country to oppose Colonial rule.
The Kingdom of Zimbabwe is thought to have existed around the 13th century, evidence of this being some quite remarkable stone ruins, but only lasted 200yrs (Zimbabwe means "great stone houses") Zimbabwe expanded its rule to Botswana Mozambique and South Africa and established trade routes with Eastern African states trading in ivory gold and sadly slaves which many African states traded in such as the Kingdom of Kongo (a feudal system). Again this Kingdom state declined and by the 16th century when the Portugeuse arrived there was little or nothing left but ruins but at least these ruins left some evidence of a civilisations existence.
The difficulty in establishing facts relating to any early civilisations in Africa is the absence of literacy meaning that all stories are just that....and only exist orally but even those oral stories do not go back any further than the 13th century. Any civilisations that did exist were usually wiped out by war between tribes and all knowledge that there was lost/destroyed by the conquerors. No-one seems to know why Africa never evolved the same as their Asian and European counter parts and stagnated to the point of decline but it is believed constant warring didn't help matters and also the Africans eagerness to enslave and sell other Africans which made them wealthy but also decimated the population contributed. Both Arabs and Chinese bought African slaves by the million well before the transatlantic slave trade existed. However, culturally & technologically Africa never surpassed the Europeans (Greeks Romans etc) with the exception of Egypt and in part this is due to the nomadic lifestyle of the sub-Saharan Africans who resisted the establishment of fixed civilisations and the constant sudden decline of civilisations that came into being but didn't stay the course. Stability is a pre-requisite for a flourishing Empire and Africa appears to have had little of that long before colonisation.
originally posted by: ClovenSky
I wonder if the problem could be traced back to the cognitive ability of the local populace?
Here is an interesting article that suggests the locals do not fully possess the ability of abstract thinking. They are unable to plan or prepare for future events because they can not put themselves into that mental state.
Lead in to the article:
I am an American who taught philosophy in several African universities from 1976 to 1988, and have lived since that time in South Africa. When I first came to Africa, I knew virtually nothing about the continent or its people, but I began learning quickly. I noticed, for example, that Africans rarely kept promises and saw no need to apologize when they broke them. It was as if they were unaware they had done anything that called for an apology.
It took many years for me to understand why Africans behaved this way but I think I can now explain this and other behavior that characterizes Africa. I believe that morality requires abstract thinking—as does planning for the future—and that a relative deficiency in abstract thinking may explain many things that are typically African.
originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: crazyewok
I cannot speak to the Kenyans before meeting them. What i know: they show up here, get jobs, and then start using those jobs to get education.
Most of the ones i know are aide's working on LVN, LVN's working on RN, or already RN. There are issues with cultural accumen and how it translates to job performance, but everyone gets the hang of it.
The Nigerian guy was raised in Jamaica by his aunt.
Ahh of course Americanised 3rd & 4th generation blacks are just bound to know the ins and outs of living in Namibia or Orange Free State or Zimbabwe, they will obviously be far more au fait with African culture than me or anyone else living there, because they've read it in a book or on the old interweb. I therefore bow to your vastly superior knowledge
I think I'll stick with my version of events and history but cheers for a) assuming my colour
b) telling me repeatedly I'm wrong so therefore I must be
c) not tackling the actual subject matter of the famine now occurring
"The situation remains extremely complicated. You still have al-Shabab controlling large parts of southern Somalia and you still have an atmosphere, a difficult operating environment where counterterrorism legislation and the threat of legal action is in place. And where there's a very kind of risk-averse international community who are worried about legal threats, reputational threats by their resources being diverted into the wrong hands ... The situation remains very complicated and the political issues always take precedence in the end and it depends on how those dynamics play out."
d) presuming you are far more knowledgeable than an actual African (of whom there are a few on these boards btw)
I think we have to just cut the aid and let them sink or swim without inference. Eventual after a decade of two of hard ship the people of Africa will adapt and learn to stand on there own two feet.
But few places are being reshaped by China’s overseas juggernaut like Africa, a continent that has seen relatively little new railroad construction in a century.
Throughout the last five centuries, Africa has existed in the Western imagination between two polarized extremes. One is the Africa that exists as treasure trove of spoils, a source of slaves to take as free labor, and a vast land full of natural riches for the taking. The other extreme is the Africa that is in need of saving, a place of needy and helpless souls where Westerners can live out their fantasies of missionary heroism.
However, in the dawn of the twenty-first century, a different African story has emerged which is, and should be, challenging the way that the West imagines Africa. From Nigeria to Kenya, and from Angola to Ethiopia, Africa is now one of the engines of global economic growth, clocking in over 4 percent annually. Instead of a continent in need of saving, Africa is becoming the next great frontier for development and economic opportunity. For the West to take part in this new African story, it is crucial to build a new relationship with Africa.