The problem of Africa.

The nature of European colonialism in Africa and the scramble to get out when people reflected upon the history of the whole show meant that whole countries were left devoid of a meaningful civil service and given into the hands of tribal "strongmen" who would either halt the spread of communism or enable it, depending on who backed the particular regime.

When you look at places like Zimbabwe, which could probably have fed most of Africa by itself, then it's easy to see the same patterns emerging all over. As some have pointed out, more recently in Libya, a fairly benign regime was turned over and now the place is a wasteland of human potential.

I sometimes think that maybe the only hope for Africa is a form of neo colonialism. Done right, in the way that India was administered, it could work out in about 40 years or so.

a reply to: crazyewok

Not good enough, provide reason and proof.

Reason and proof for what, for this, "And while I'm at it I may as well remind you that the native Africans didn't find the diamonds copper gold etc it was the colonials...had Europeans not gone there those minerals would STILL be lying in the ground." No.

Privilage my arse.

Yea, you too, privileged. "Why aren't the Africans doing the same things as we are", thats what your asking. Like I said privileged.

The typcial race card!

Yes, bigot, lets see what one is. Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. Definition two fits the one I was responding to.

Why? All you have presented in your sterotypical hollow libral catchphrases.

I'm not liberal, your label doesn't apply. And another meme, the hobgoblin of little minds!

a reply to: SprocketUK

Insightful and probably right. I can't say a way past their current situation and shudder to think what will happen once the Russians and Chinese get a firmer grip

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

You would be suprised what you can learn when you speak to actual AFRICANS from different parts of the continent. Different countries, different issues.

Not to mention, here in north carolina, especially in Raleigh, there are a few things that introduce you to the culture and if your curious, you learn about the history. And you meet some Africans too. Am I an expert, no. Do I believe what you put forward as your argument? No and it's terribly wrong.

But its yours and you can have one.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Again we are hearing in the news again about famine in Africa. Around 30 billion in aid is sent to Africa every year but the problem still persists. Africa has plenty of natural resources yet it people STILL live in poverty.

Why?

Trillion has been pumped into the Africa countrys over the century yet they exist in poverty stricken states. Yes colonialism, especially from Italy, France and Belgium left areas devastated but that’s no excuse. Germany and Japan in 1945 where left bombed out wrecks yet within a decade they were first would industrial nations again and that does not explain places like Kenya and Zimbabwe and other British held areas of Africa that when the British left where modern and prosperous yet quickly went downhill.

Clearing throwing money at Africa countrys does nothing.

So what is causing the problems?

How do we sort it?

One key issue is over population. It’s a cycle.
Africans breed.
There population outstrips the ability for the country to feed them.
There is famine.
We send aid
Africans breed.
There population outstrips the ability for the country to feed them.
There is famine.
We send aid
And so on.

But that doesn’t address the key issue of why there is such a cycle. Why hasn’t all the education programs made a dent?
Why cant these nations become self-sufficient?

Is it culture? Is there politcal conpsiracy keeping African country delibratly at war?

Again I think there is a inbuilt culture of nepatism and corruption in the majority of african countrys. Also petty tribal disputes play a huge role in keeping certain areas in perpetual war.

The western world is/has literally been raping Africa for 800+/- years.

a reply to: Jahari

Actually no.....the Arabs raped it long before Europeans did
But at the end of the day, has Africa done anything about it happening over and over again? No because once the colonials left, the dictators who took their places, after anihilating most of the population, then sold them out to the highest bidder together with mineral rights

originally posted by: Raggedyman
When Africa was carved up by the Europeans into different country's, they never accounted for the different tribes. Some countries have many tribes in them who don't get along.
Hence the civil wars

Look at De Beers and their power, corruption and greed associated with diamonds. It's not about overpopulation or bad management, it's Western Greed, always has been

Blame western countries, don't blame Africans and overpopulation

Silly opening thread, completely blind to the truth

Ummm where else have they done that at? I wonder.

Arabs really? Whatever you have to tell yourself. I can't believe the complete denial.

a reply to: Jahari

Denial of what exactly?

Well you know the motto....deny arrogance...I mean ignorance

I suggest you read a little more on the history of Africa PRIOR to the invasion of the nasty colonialists

a reply to: Jahari

Yeah cause Africa was a land of sunshine peace lollipops and happyness before the firs European arrived....

a reply to: cenpuppie

Ahh of course Americanised 3rd & 4th generation blacks are just bound to know the ins and outs of living in Namibia or Orange Free State or Zimbabwe, they will obviously be far more au fait with African culture than me or anyone else living there, because they've read it in a book or on the old interweb. I therefore bow to your vastly superior knowledge

Sorry no I won't actually....I think I'll stick with my version of events and history but cheers for a) assuming my colour b) telling me repeatedly I'm wrong so therefore I must be c) not tackling the actual subject matter of the famine now occurring and the reasons therefore and d) presuming you are far more knowledgeable than an actual African (of whom there are a few on these boards btw)

a reply to: cenpuppie

Then I wear the badge of bigot with pride and honour

Least I can put a coherent debate together without pulling pathetic race cards, dodging the queastions and ignoring facts and history.

a reply to: crazyewok

The problem is when the colonials arrived and gave themselves over completely to the dark side, they scorched the very soul of Africa.

Africa, a continent of endless tribal conflict, already bathed in the blood of mainly nomadic peoples.

The colonials ransacked the place, burned down the coastal cities, destroyed ancient culture. Imposed a different market. One where the slaves were detained and fully indentured, made completely reliant on the promise of payment for their labour. No longer free to range over the entire territory, travelling to the chief's encampments to work/war when required. No payment made but fed, housed and clothed until the task was done and then going walkabout again.

If the slaves really want to better their living conditions, they could try unionising and demanding a fair shake for their labour. Lot's of reasons current 'chiefs' and external agency have little incentive to welcome unionisation is why it is not happening.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Raggedyman
When Africa was carved up by the Europeans into different country's, they never accounted for the different tribes. Some countries have many tribes in them who don't get along.
Hence the civil wars

Look at De Beers and their power, corruption and greed associated with diamonds. It's not about overpopulation or bad management, it's Western Greed, always has been

Blame western countries, don't blame Africans and overpopulation

Silly opening thread, completely blind to the truth

I think your the blind one using the "blame the west card".

Nothing is stopping them putting down the guns and ending the petty tribal wars. Not all responsibility can be put on the west.

And famine by default means overpopulation in a area as there would not be famine in the area if it could support the population. Hell when Europeans first arrived Africa was still overrun with tribal wars! That’s why slavery started in the first place because when European arrived most the African Kingdoms had surplus captives from all there petty wars! Wars has been apart of Africa long before Europeans ever showed up!

Also if it was not for the west they would be still be stuck in the Stone Age.
It was European colonists that started building the roads, the schools and the city’s. And when the UK owned parts of Africa those areas enjoyed prosperity, plentiful food and relative peace (compared with today)

And the US is in trillions debt, just borrow more.
What you gonna do when it comes back on you
You have got to be joking surely

a reply to: Jahari

Well Arabs was picking up slaves in Africa for 600 years before the Portuguese and Spain started colonization in the 14 hundreds.

en.wikipedia.org...

They where also making genocide in India for hundreds of years of Hindus and Buddhist before the British took over. Do you really believe the change in south east Asia from Buddhist to Islam was peaceful?

There is a reason Buddhist are very aware of the past Islam aggression and are not allowing migration waves.

a reply to: cenpuppie

Im curious.....what are you hoping to get out of this conversation? It isn't the mudpit afterall.

Maybe if you think someone is being a bigot, you could save us all having to bear witness to grandstanding with cliche's, and simply report the post? That way the thread doesn't get derailed in a sea of meaninglless tit for tat.

If you think you have correct information, share it. But don't presume superiority and then use that presumption as your bully pulpit. This is not the forum for that.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well said

Now back to the post

If pumping aid money into African countries was meant to help & develop those countries, then Africa would be the most developed nation on earth. What the "aid" does is embolden and enrich the corrupt tribalistic leaders of various countries and keep them in power, regardless of the damage they do to their own people. These leaders use international aid money to make themselves rich whilst relinquishing all responsibility to their country and people and when it runs out, they simply ask for more.

Many in Africa have a very machiavellian outlook "It is just as difficult & dangerous to try and free a people that want to remain servile as it is to enslave a people that want to remain free"......until their own perception of themselves change, there is little that can be done. Until their leaders actually demonstrate some vision there will be no successful African countries. After the end of colonialism, no country in Africa stepped up. No country has made its mark on the world stage. They have once again become nations of consumers and NOT producers. A similar mindset and philosophy can be also seen in countries in South America

They are killing the farmers in South Africa and elsewhere, and not just white farmers but the few black ones too and in effect cutting off their nose to spite their face and part of this action is revenge part is short sightedness, but part of it is also the fact that they know whatever happens, they will get aid & help.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Two points I have to emphasis for truth here. First us yes I think some of these countries are so caught up with hatred and dishing out revenge to the west they are cutting off there nose to spite there face. Yes many of the white land owners only got that land through colonialism but they were the ones producing the food and knew how to work that land, kicking them out and killing them was very short sighted and as we can see disastrous.

As for the aid? No it doesn’t get to the right people. Again its nepotism and corruption at play again. Officials get the aid money then spend it on their own relatives. There is very little regard for others outside there family.

a reply to: crazyewok

The problem of Africa.

The problem of Africa, is that Africa; has been systematically rapped and abused for 1000s of years. Intentionally, by forces outside of Africa.

Africa is not a problem.

Its the ones that have been abusing the world systematically-for 1000s of years, that are the WORLDS! problem.


Africa is a victim, NOT the problem.

a reply to: SLO31B

Many other countries on this planet have been raped & pillaged too but haven't ended up like Africa. Now ask yourself why that is?