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Trump promised to bring back coal jobs. That promise ‘will not be kept,’ experts say.

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posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:03 AM
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Trump promised to bring back coal jobs. That promise ‘will not be kept,’ experts say.

I don't really like posting threads in the mud pit because I tire of the name calling rather quickly. I had enough of that childish BS while in grade school. However, this topic definitely is a mud pit topic and will lead to some heated emotions. So I had to break down and post it here. But enough about me, onto Trump's latest failure.

President Trump lifted a moratorium on federal coal leases Tuesday, paving the way for excavation of a fossil fuel on public land in the West that few mining companies seem to want.

With coal miners gathered around him, Trump signed an executive order rolling back a temporary ban on mining coal and a stream protection rule imposed by the Obama administration. The order follows the president’s campaign promise to revive the struggling coal industry and bring back thousands of lost mining jobs in rural America.

“I made them this promise,” Trump said, “we will put our miners back to work.”

Great so far. BUUUUUUT...

But industry experts say coal mining jobs will continue to be lost, not because of blocked access to coal, but because power plant owners are turning to natural gas. At least six plants that relied on coal have closed or announced they will close since Trump’s victory in November, including the main plant at the Navajo Generating Station in Arizona, the largest in the West. Another 40 are projected to close during the president’s four-year term.

As power companies switch fuels, “the amount of coal in the national energy generation mix (both Fuels and Electricity Generation) has declined by 53 percent since 2006,” according to a Department of Energy report released in January. Over the same period, electricity generation from natural gas increased 33 percent.

The shift was mirrored by employment, with jobs in natural gas and other cleaner energy resources rising and coal jobs declining, the report said. It cited a Bureau of Labor Statistics analysis showing that coal mining and support employment declined by nearly 40 percent between March 2009 and March 2016.

So in other words coal power is switching to natural gas power and there is nothing Trump did here that will change that. People like natural gas better because it is cleaner. We know that Trump couldn't give a crap about the environment, but plenty of Americans still do, and our changing power demands are reflective of that. Here, WaPo even provided a fun chart to graph this need.

As you can see, demand of coal was already on a steady downward trend WELL before Obama stepped in and implemented his coal policies. Since then coal demand has continued to drop with no signs of recovery. Thus Trump's actions here are merely ceremonial. Coal jobs will still continued to be lost, but Trump's ego has been sated. So that's good I guess... Don't believe me?

In this shaky financial environment, coal companies are struggling. Two of the largest, Contura and Arch Coal, emerged from bankruptcy only recently, and another giant, Peabody Energy, recently filed a reorganization plan for its path out of bankruptcy, according to the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis.

Job losses in the coal industry didn't start under Obama either. Here's another handy graph from the article.

As can be seen from that graph, coal jobs have been steadily dropping since the 90's. America just doesn't want coal anymore, and nothing Trump says otherwise will change that.

“Promises to create more coal jobs will not be kept — indeed the industry will continue to cut payrolls,” the group said in its 2017 U.S. Coal Outlook. “These losses will be related in part to the coal industry’s long-term business model of producing more coal with fewer workers.”

The industry has a fundamental problem it has not addressed even as businesses fail, the IEEFA said: “Too many companies are still mining too much coal for too few customers.”

The future is coalless, and unfortunately for the miners who made their living mining that #, they need to find new careers. That's just the direction our economy is moving. In a free market when your industry becomes irrelevant, you go out of business or find a new career. Isn't that the Republican mantra?




posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:08 AM
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It's kind of early yet don't you think? This is like Republicans talking about "the failed Obama administration" back in December 2008 before he was sworn in.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:09 AM
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Maybe Trump will get Congress to fund subsidies for coal plant pollution scrubbers that will make coal a viable energy source. The future is never known and politics almost invariable never makes logical sense.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:14 AM
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That power plants are going to propane is no surprise. We have more than enough. The company my brother in law works for sold their propane division and got completely out of it, because it is too plentiful and not really worth competing for. The company I worked for, sold their entire coal division, because coal is slowly being phased out.
Being an ex coal miner, I feel for these guys, but they need to start training for something else.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:22 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

So Trump is going to magically reverse a trend that has been going on since the 90's (with regards to lost jobs) and the 00's (with regards to decreasing demands for coal) by overturning a policy that was implemented WELL after these trends started downwards? Your logic isn't sound.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:26 AM
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Coal is need for producing steel. Cars are built on steel. As long as there are cars, there are steel, as long as there are steel, there are coal. Coal is here to stay.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:27 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

It's almost 2 BILLION per plant to install those scrubbers. I'd like to see America energy independent and not buying so much foreign oil, but that is a looot of money. Maybe cut some of those foreign bribes...er "aid" ?



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Maybe, but we don't need NEARLY as much of it as we used to, and we STILL have a surplus of coal. So jobs will continues to be lost until supply and demand equilibrium is reached for coal demand for steel production. That is basic economics right there.

The industry has a fundamental problem it has not addressed even as businesses fail, the IEEFA said: “Too many companies are still mining too much coal for too few customers.”



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:49 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t
You trying to make this much simpler than what it really is. Obama worked hard to put all the regulations in place to kill coal country. Trump can try to help but it will take a lot of work to undo Obama's damage. Plus due to his regulations some companies have already put polices in place that can't be reversed.

Sometimes the damage is too big to overcome. And Obama did everything he could to bankrupt the coal industry.

Over the past five years, Minnesota utilities have decided to retire or convert 14 coal-fired generating units to natural gas. Minnesota gets more than 15 percent of its energy from wind and has long required utilities to invest in energy efficiency programs. Even so, 55 percent of the state’s power comes from coal.



Link



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: Martin75

Uh... You realize that the graphs I posted in the thread says this trend started before Obama took office? AND the period in time that Obama froze coal leasing was already WELL into the downward dip.

Simplifying things? It sounds like you didn't even read my data. Here's the graph again that shows where the regulation you just posted a link to lies on the trend line:

See that vertical line? See the downward trend to the left of that line? Basic graph interpretation says that Obama didn't do much to cause the end of the coal industry. He only helped it along after it was already in its death throes.
edit on 30-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Couldn't agree more, coal is a fuel whose day has come and gone regardless of what that blow-hard and/or his supporters may think.

While I am NOT usually one to favor using tax abatements/relief to entice businesses to locate in a particular area of the country, if there ever was a time for it, this is it.

If Trump is serious about putting those coal miners back to work, this would probably be a good time to start developing a plan to entice companies that produce clean energy devices, (like solar panels and wind generators) to locate their facilities in states where coal jobs are disappearing from.

If I were Trump, I'd focus on re-training those miners to work in the "clean energy" field instead of continuing to propagate the lie that there is anything clean about coal, or that the industry has a viable future.

Coal is rapidly going the way of oil burning lamps and horse drawn cannons, their day has come and gone and it's time to transition to cleaner methods of energy production.

IMO, The only viable long term answer to the massive unemployment in our coal producing states is re-train our coal miners to manufacture, erect, maintain and/or repair the clean energy devices of the future.

I've worked plenty of coal in my life and I'm confident that once these people have been retrained and re-employed in their new "cleaner" jobs, they'll thank us for help in transitioning.

When it comes to Trump, well I don't think he can be helped or fixed.

What did Ron White say......."You can't fix stupid."


edit on 30-3-2017 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: Flatfish


But that would make sense and actually be HELPFUL, but more importantly it is a nuanced solution. No way Trump wants anything to do with that. Nuance and Trump go together like oil and water. If it isn't something that can be expressed in 140 characters or less, then there is no point pursuing it.
edit on 30-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 08:42 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t


And some people would shout at you for aall of your baloney/Fake News/ Obama shilling/ Libtarding etc, and everything else.

I have given you a star but I believe your approach is way above some people.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 08:44 AM
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a reply to: Tiger5

Well I expect childishness like that. I did put the thread in the mud pit. Though I have no intention of taking anyone seriously who tells me this is fake news just because they don't like what is being reported, or even worse because it comes from WaPo.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

It's not anything like that. How silly.
It's clear that coal is a messy archaic form of energy.
The fact that the industry has been in decline for decades shows this.
Trump can drop regulations but it's not going to create a need for coal any more than making horses free will bring back the stage coach. It's a bygone era.
We already have a surplus supply of coal. No one is buying.
edit on 3302017 by Sillyolme because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Martin75

Uh... You realize that the graphs I posted in the thread says this trend started before Obama took office? AND the period in time that Obama froze coal leasing was already WELL into the downward dip.


Obama took office in '08. That's literally the exact point the downward trend starts. I admittedly haven't looked for a cause of this, but the trend most definitely started when he took office.

I suppose it would be wrong to blame Obama for what may have already been put in place by the Bush administration, but then again, Trump has received plenty of blame for Obama's flubs.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Did you read? It is not about an administration. The demand for coal has been diminishing long before Obama or trump. If anyone really cared about these people, they would be truthful.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 09:09 AM
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Trump put em back in the mines then take away health care that they'll need when they developed black lung disease.
Yeah. Ya can't fix stupid.
Yesterday in some symposium on the opioid addiction expert after expert outlined the problem as stemming from prescription drug abuse and at the end trump says .well we're gonna secure our southern border to keep Mexican herion out. WTF.

He doesn't listen. He doesn't see.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yeah, "Helpful."

If there's one thing that Trump supporters should understand when it comes to their belief that the Donald is sincere about wanting to "help" them and their situation, it's that the only help they're ever going to see will actually be nothing more than a temporary byproduct of Trump's only real goal, which is to "help" himself and his image or poll numbers.

Image is everything to Trump and if pretending to help you or your cause won't improve his image or standing in the polls, you're just sh#t out of luck.

Problem is.......as stupid as Trump is, even when he decides to try to help you in the course of helping himself, you may still find yourself sh#t out of luck.

Good news is......most Trump supporters won't ever be all butt-hurt when they finally figure that out, because one out of three Trump supporters is just as stupid as the other two.

This is gonna be a long four years.
edit on 30-3-2017 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: scojak

It's more likely that is just a coincidence since Obama didn't address coal production until 2015. 7 years after he was elected.

To back up my reasoning. Keep in mind that Obama assumed office on January 20th, 2009. The dip in the graph happens during the 2008 year. HOWEVER there is a bump in the graph for the year of 2009. Heck, the bump for production continues to run well into 2010 (and almost 2011) while the consumption trend starts dropping near the beginning of 2010. Are you sure the downward trend didn't start because of the 2008 crash instead? That would make more sense given the trend lines I just outlined.
edit on 30-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



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