Hornet physiological issues increasing

in Ww2 it was Carbon Monoxide poisoning that created problems for pilots..For High altitude PR aircraft the cockpits were sealed tight and canopies were usually screwed on.Pressurisation was via ram air through inlets around the cockpit,not by engine created pumps off memory. Lessons learned?

a reply to: Blackfinger

One of the things is just that some of the airframes involved are so damn old. The other, and this is my opinion, is that there's a serious problem with the OBOGS generators.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Id seriously be looking at the manufacturer if that was the case..To have that many incidents is borderline criminal..

Since I modded my Cummins turbo with an aftermarket unit they can use my old one to run off the hot side, put an after cooler on intake air discharge and locate said intake anywhere convenient on airframe for cockpit pressurization.

a reply to: Blackfinger

It's pretty interesting that both the Rhino and Raptor suffered major hypoxia related events and both airframes have OBOGS systems.

It's pretty interesting that both the Rhino and Raptor suffered major hypoxia related events and both airframes have OBOGS systems.

Made by.....????

a reply to: Blackfinger

Don't know. I haven't looked that deeply. When I have time I get side tracked by things like catching up on sleep.

Im leaning towards Honeywell from what I can see online for the early Hornets.

It makes some sense if they are being exposed to hydrocarbons in the oxygen system.

I have some familiarity with the use of hyperbaric oxygen having had to dive with it before during the treatment of children. methemoglobinemia or Carboxyhemoglobin both can be treated in this manner. Essentially the hemoglobin which is part of your red blood cells, become bound with say carbon monoxide. It simply cannot pick up any oxygen once its saturated with CO2. It has such an hold on the CO2 that it will not diffuse through the alveolar membrane swapping with oxygen. Thus you can suffocate with a lung full of air. You can treat that by breathing oxygen under 2X normal atmospheric pressure but its unusually reserved for severe cases. But .....

However, typically hydrocarbons have a sclerosing effect on the lungs, which in small amounts can cause upper respiratory symptoms like cough etc ( kind of like the old F-22 cough) and in large exposures results in complete failure of the alveoli and put the patient in full blown ARDS.

originally posted by: Barnalby
a reply to: introvert
...... methinks there might not be as much medical oversight of pilot air-delivery systems as there probably should be.

Lol, ya think?

Have you ever filled a LOX bottle? I have, hundreds of times. You hook the LOX up to the jet when you are done and bam, oxygen.

There's no medical screening of that gas. There's no quality air filter. It's pure oxygen, though. Could something be entering into the LOX system or further on up to the pilot(s)? Maybe.

I really don't understand why it's so hard to drag one to a skid pad, fire her up and start running tests. I mean, you could probably drill a single hole in a panel and plop in a pressure sensor to determine leaks. Well, if it's bleed air at least. If that panel doesn't fail the test, move on to the next one. Yes, lots of panels.

a reply to: Tempter

They don't use the LOX bottles anymore, they use OBOGS. And that's the problem. That system caused alot of problems for the F-22 until they put an automatic back up generator. OBOGS and the manual backup led to a crash in Alaska that killed the pilot.

They ran dozens of tests on the F-22 and the pilots and found very little. They found a number of things when they tested the pilot, but when it came to the aircraft, the only time anything happened was at altitude, where they couldn't test.

NASA has been using similar systems for years..

Is it this one:

www.cobham.com...

Their propaganda says it's in the F-16, the Hornet and the T-45.

Honeywell brags about those aircraft as well.

aerocontent.honeywell.com...

a reply to: cosmania

Honeywell does the F-22, F-35, B-2, and B-1. They also do at least part of the Hornet system.

originally posted by: Blackfinger
in Ww2 it was Carbon Monoxide poisoning t hat created problems for pilots..For High altitude PR aircraft the cockpits were sealed tight and canopies were usually screwed on.Pressurisation was via ram air through inlets around the cockpit,not by engine created pumps off memory. Lessons learned?

That's not totally correct. The only operational (not prototype or experimental) pressurized WWII warplane was the Boeing B-29. It was pressurized by bleed air from the inboard engine turbo-superchargers. There was a mixing of the hot pressurized air with ambient air for cooling purposes, but ram air at its 190 knot cruise speed would be absolutely insufficient to give an 8,000 foot cabin altitude at 30,000 feet. In fact, even the turbo-supercharger system couldn't keep an 8,000 cabin above 30,000 feet. Since a tubro supercharger runs off of exhaust gases, a leaking seal could put CO in the cabin.

PR Spitfire Cockpits were pressurised.

originally posted by: Blackfinger
PR Spitfire Cockpits were pressurised.

Yes, they were, but they came along late in the war, with the first flight less than a year before VE day and operational status about 7 months before the end.

First PR flight by a Spit was in 1940 when it photographed Brest harbour I think but unsure if it was a pressurised.Will check my Supermarine Drawings stash.