No Hoax this time. " Homeowner's son shoots, kills three would-be burglars"

originally posted by: RazorV66
3 less idiots in Oklahoma.
Good shooting.

Is that a dig?
If so, pretty rich coming from someone in Michigan.
But yeah, they were idiots.

a reply to: Macenroe82

That's a lot of blood. Clean up is not a public service. That alone would make me think twice before shooting. Plus, I don't WANT to shoot someone if it's not necessary. But... I can't mop up the blood if I'm dead.

On another note: There are much savvier ways to be a criminal these days. Chalk this one up to natural selection.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Your research is misleading. Once a person(s) is killed, no matter what the person is doing or has done, it becomes a homicide. Look under homicides and find the home invasion link.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Weird, seeing as the FBI says over 700 people were killed during the course of a robbery or burglary in the year 2013, which was the first year to come up in my search so I don't really care to, or see the need to, go any further with it. That's not getting into people killed during the course of a rape or any other number of incidents. So...do you think all these people are getting murdered by family members who are already inside the house, or by people out on the street? Might wanna check the news, I bet you'll find somebody who was murdered in their house during the course of a robbery.

Home invasion is the act of entering a dwelling by force with the intent to commit a violent crime on the occupants of that dwelling. So, again, why do you think the homeowner should be obligated to wait till you start attempting to murder, assault, rape, etc., them to do something about it?

I understand you are ignorant. I get it. But if you're going to present statistics during an argument, you should be really, really sure you understand them before you present them because somebody who actually does understand statistics, and reality, is liable to come along and poop all over your faulty numbers.

You should've continued reading the Quora article you pulled your numbers from, because there's a line further down the page that's applicable here: it's not the odds, it's the stakes. Additionally, had you gone to the link they provided and bothered to do any actual research you might've noticed this line:

When someone is home during a burglary and experiences violence, NCVS classification rules categorize the victimization as a personal (rape/sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault) rather than a property crime (household burglary, theft, and motor vehicle theft). In this report, the definition of household burglary includes burglaries in which a household member was a victim of a violent crime (see Methodology).

BJS numbers that explain what a home invasion is, and what it isn't

FBI UCR 2013 Table 10

a reply to: dfnj2015

If you break in my home and it's unclear if or if not you may be armed and with what...I won't be siding with caution for the trespasser...I will side on caution for my family. I would only give one chance to immediately lay down and disarm then I'm shooting anyone still standing. To me that's what it sounds like happened here.

You take the risk when you break the law... Sometimes you get away sometimes you get dead.

ETA: wanted to add that any verbal warning would only be given once said trespassers are in my sights. If I didn't see immediate compliance I would open up on em'. That's even more than most would give but I do feel it's fair if you are in the position of advantage to give a chance for surrender...But there is a very slim window of tolerance and time in which that offer to surrender is open before I have to think you are debating action towards me instead of surrender.

I will say that back around 18 years ago I lived in Irving, Texas, before the Castle Law, but you could still (supposedly) shoot and kill an intruder, but you may or may not get off Scott free. Anyway, one Friday night in January around 9:30pm my wife woke me up to say she heard a noise, (there's a LOT more to this story, but I'll keep in short) so I grabbed my .357 pistol and headed towards the front door. While I was there listening, finally I heard a 'THUMP!", that was someone at my back sliding door popping the (flimsy) lock and then I heard the sliding door open. He stuck his head inside between the vertical curtain and looked around, right then I had to make a decision. Was I to shoot him or try and stop him? I made the decision to NOT kill him and I said, "Stay right where you are!", (Which I know from movies...). He immediately panicked, ran as fast as possible, and by the time I made the 12 feet to my door he was already 20' to my 6' fence climbing to the top. I said something, I really can't remember, but as I did I decided again to not shoot to kill, so I shot into the ground 3 times to scare him. Well, he was so scared that he broke the top of my (semi-new) fence off, then took off. Funny too 'cause I didn't have any bullets in it, so it only did a "click-click-click!"... heheh Why it was unloaded is that I used that at my lake cabin and traveling to and fro, I always unloaded it while traveling though, and I ALWAYS reload it when I get back home, except this time.
So, I didn't kill anyone, they eventually turned themselves in after I told the police things, plus they left their car in front of my house, the car keys were found on the other side on the gate he broke the top off when he was so scared he was about to die.
I was given the choice of them going to jail or boot camp, and if you have ever seen anything about boot camps they do way more than jail will. So I chose boot camp to 'hopefully' make them think about what they did, hopefully to change them.
After that I was reimbursed by them (restitution) for the physical house damage which only came to $35., I never heard about what happened to them afterwards, so I don't know how they are.

I will say how we were though, that was a feeling that you NEVER-EVER lose, once of being violated, probably similar but maybe not as bad a being raped, although you definitely feel raped. That was years ago and I still to this day feel that violation, it's not as bad but it has made me think that the next time since I something could be worse. I'd hate the think of having blood on my hands, I am not a killer, I had to make the choice of taking someone's life that night, so I know I am not.
When I was 18 my night manager and I was robbed by gunpoint and the 3 robbers used a gun and shot my manager, they needed me to help them open the safe, and I was seconds away from almost certain death when 2 guys (I knew) walked into the store. That more than likely saved me because they probably didn't want to kill 4 people, not that they wouldn't, they probably were thinking of the time it'd take, they were without any remorse when they shot the manager.
I am not trying to go into all of that but I do want to say that I have been violated many times in the past, these are definitely not the only times stuff like this has happened, so I am fed up, I am sick of people that do this stuff, without any cares about anything. These types of people are beyond callous, I knew of many, many that were/are like that, they just don't care about anybody or anything, so when I see that people break into a house or hijack a car, weapon or not, we don't know what they might be carrying. They more than likely will try and hurt you, don't give then a chance to.

I could go on and on but I will spare you all.

My point is, never try and second guess what a criminal will do to you, it could be your life or theirs, you didn't do anything to make them come into your house, they trespassed, so there you go...

I'm sorry to be so long but I did try my best in making it shorter, believe that or not.

Good use of force I'd say, pity they didn't survive to take the stand and get the other kind of justice but if you're in anyones house pretty much around the world it could get serious and the house owner has home field advantage so in a place where firearms are normal it'll be feet first if caught.

Trying such stupid crap in a nation thats got more guns than people should serve as a basic sanity check before even getting up and walking to the property.

I might not have killed them... But they would certainly be needing knee replacement surgery when I was done with them.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: tayton

Don't rely either on the mercy or the intelligence of criminals.

Execute all criminals, got it. Back off the hair trigger there.... troop.

originally posted by: DrWily
I might not have killed them... But they would certainly be needing knee replacement surgery when I was done with them.

Sorry to say, but in a lot of states you would be paying for that knee surgery and maybe restitution. When your family, property or life is at stake, shoot to kill.

young graves get the bouquets

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: tayton

Don't rely either on the mercy or the intelligence of criminals.

Execute all criminals, got it. Back off the hair trigger there.... troop.

Behold! It's a wildly hyperbolic interpretation that takes something completely out of context in its natural habitat.

This not a case of "capital punishment" where the homeowner "executed" criminals for their "crimes." After all, they were not convicted in a court of law, right? Looking at this case in that way, then bemoaning the poor criminals who were merely trying to burgle something and "didn't deserve to die" is looking at it bas ackwards. The issue at hand is that a homeowner defended himself from three people who were bent on causing him harm, up to and including death. The homeowner is not required to politely ask these three if they really intend to kill him or if they just want the stereo. The fact the three are in his house is evidence of intent. The fact that they were armed and in black clothing is further evidence. The fact one fellow had a knife instead of a gun is irrelevant. It takes less than two seconds to close the distance against a hesitant gun owner to disable him because he "wasn't sure" whether he should fire. As a homeowner you don't have the luxury of knowing, don't have the time to carefully consider the alternatives. If you decide to ponder the issues in this situation, you likely wind up dead. This is a clear case of self defense and it is exactly why castle laws exist.

originally posted by: ItCameFromOuterSpace

originally posted by: RazorV66
3 less idiots in Oklahoma.
Good shooting.

Is that a dig?
If so, pretty rich coming from someone in Michigan.
But yeah, they were idiots.

Not at all....But yeah we have a lot of idiots here in Michigan too.
I should have said - 3 less low life criminal idiots.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: tayton

Don't rely either on the mercy or the intelligence of criminals.

Execute all criminals, got it. Back off the hair trigger there.... troop.

Behold! It's a wildly hyperbolic interpretation that takes something completely out of context in its natural habitat.

This isn't Afghanistan.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: tayton

Don't rely either on the mercy or the intelligence of criminals.

Execute all criminals, got it. Back off the hair trigger there.... troop.

Behold! It's a wildly hyperbolic interpretation that takes something completely out of context in its natural habitat.

This isn't Afghanistan.

Nobody said it was, so...glad we're all agreed

a reply to: flatbush71

Well I guess there won't be anymore burglaries in that neighborhood. I don't have any sympathy for criminals. You invade someone's private residency you deserve whatever you get.

a reply to: flatbush71

Ummm...another fine example of territorialism on display...

It looks like humanity might not be quite as enlightened/evolved as some of us here on this site thought...

But I was never one of those that suffered from that particular delusion...


YouSir

originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: flatbush71

Ummm...another fine example of territorialism on display...

It looks like humanity might not be quite as enlightened/evolved as some of us here on this site thought...

But I was never one of those that suffered from that particular delusion...

YouSir

Territories exist because of those young fellows that came without being invited at night.
There will always be those that want to hurt you, even if they don't want what you have.
Some humans think that they have a right to defend themselves from those types of people.
I am one of them.

originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: flatbush71

Ummm...another fine example of territorialism on display...

It looks like humanity might not be quite as enlightened/evolved as some of us here on this site thought...

I'm not of the opinion that "enlightenment" means you ought to let yourself get killed by a bunch of thugs who break into your house. But I agree with you about territorialism. It's a very simple equation. My kitchen in not your territory. This wasn't a street corner where everyone has the right to be there. Stay out of my kitchen and you won't run the risk of my shooting you.