More loss of health services in UK because too many people

a reply to: Revolution9
Oh # right off, you are the one who is hypnotised. Blame the immigrants for our underfunded nhs, blame the immigrants for cuts to policing, blame the immigrants for lack of social care that bogs the hospitals down. This site is about denying ignorance, but you buy right in to the propaganda so you don't look at who's actually causing the problem.

a reply to: Revolution9

there was a story on cnn yesterday I was reading about how the companies here in america needed the immigrants because they couldn't find enough native people who are able to pass their drug tests.. how the immigrants came here willing and able to work, drug free, ready to go after that american dream!! well... beyond the fact that their drug tests aren't as accurate as they claim.... by the time I got about halfway through the article my thinking was kind of in the form of...
ya, the americans, having already concluded that the american dream is lost to them, and are becoming drug addicts, lots of times with the help of the pill pushing healthcare system. while the immigrants are probably more inclined to resort to the herbal remedies that have been passed down to them, so aren't having the pills pushed on them as much. but still, sooner or later, they will come to the same conclusion, the american dream has become nothing more than a dream really. some probably already have... and what will they turn to?? terrorism?

a reply to: Revolution9

This is my message to the politicians of UK:

Don't think pulling out of the EU will make life easy for you. It will make life a lot more difficult. There will no longer be anyone else to blame or hold accountable. It will whittle down the obviousness of where responsibility and accountability resides. We shall have the democratic politics we fought so hard and died for.

So, government, banks and big business: The government in the UK will be the broker between you and us. We want rights and a fair crack at the whip. We want choice and opportunity in our democracy. We don't want a crowded house and terrorism hotbed. If that is all you are going to give us, believe me, we will want to know why and we know where to go for our answers.

The day they took over all the land and forced taxes on us so we could no longer depend on ourselves is the day they became responsible for us and accountable to us. Realize your power, Dudes and Dudettes of the Free World!

originally posted by: crazyewok
The NHS is cumbersome and outdated.

The Politian’s needs to sit down and look at how France, Japan and the Scandinavian country’s provide healthcare that is superior to the UK.

But they wont. The conservatives will continue to stealth cut while being to scared to address the problem while Labour froth at the mouth and religiously try to guard the status quo crying about going to a "US healthcare system" while ignoring the fact there are a dozen other country’s with better healthcare systems than the UK that do provide free healthcare for all.

We need to grow up and accept that yes the US healthcare system sucks but so does ours and there is more to the world than the UK and USA!

All countries that spend far more on health care than we do.

The NHS is consistently rated as one of the best in the world despite its relatively small budget.

i can't say this is a surprise at all. it is the curse of socialized health systems.

in fact this is why a lot of people have been very concerned with the US's ACA, and calls for them to get a socialized health care system like other countries have. socialized medical is unsustainable as it is.

in Canada the system most lauded by people calling for socialized medicine in the US, has been in financial difficulties for years. as far as i know at least in Ontario under OHIP (Ontario health insurance plan), things like medication, all but some emergency dental work, or eye care past an eye exam every two or so years has never been covered. then back in the early 2000's they cut off the eye exams, chiropractic are (where before it had some partial coverage, now has none), physiotherapy, and other health services were cut off because the system could no longer afford to cover it. then you have psychiatry (pushing expensive mind altering drugs, not covered under OHIP of course) is covered. yet seeing a psychologist someone who instead of just medicating people into stupors, but actually helping people work through and deal with their problems is not covered. thus making buying private health insurance, or getting it through work something you need to have. this is especially true since things like dental, eye glasses, prescription drugs, chiropractic, physiotherapy and seeing a psychologist are very expensive, and thus out of reach for many people. of course like with the ACA, people on welfare get help, yet everyone else is left to try to fend for themselves. then Canada even had an issue this last year where they only gave the provinces some of the money they were asking for, for their medical systems. that of course means that they are short of funds. so can we expect yet more cuts to medical care and/or adding even more to the debt each province owes?

add onto that the doctor shortage which has been a huge problem for years. a problem so bad that the government had to come out with a service to try to help people find a general practitioner. a service that carries a disclaimer that they might not be able to find you a doctor anywhere near you, if at all. a problem caused by both doctors leaving to go work where they can make more money (like in the US), as well as government imposed limits on just how many patients a doctor may have. then you also have huge waiting times to see a specialist which can take 6 months or even over a year, to be able to get into one for help. and if you are unfortunate enough to be one of those without a GP, you are literally cut off from all but emergency medical care, as you need a referral from a GP to be able to get any medical care like to see a specialist.

the problem is the exact same for countries with socialized medicine, or as the US before, during and after the ACA came into effect. that being that due in a large part to medical insurance, be it socialized medicine or private insurance, every aspect of medical care is far overpriced. this is what Obama, and now Trump, as well as countries with socialized medicine needed to deal with, but have failed to do. and that is to deal with the actual COST of everything to do with medical help, from supplies and medication all the way up at every step. in a socialized medical system situation what that really means, is not just to provide coverage to everyone. but to socialize every aspect of the medical industry. that of course means socializing the manufacture of medical devices, supplies and equipment, pharmaceutical industries, doctors, education, medical research, and pharmaceutical research, the whole ball of wax. every single aspect in the medical field needs to become NON-profit, with realistic salaries for everyone involved. otherwise social medicine will always be unsustainable. no matter what the real thing that needs to be done with medical care no matter what type of system you have, is to reduce the costs of it.

The strain on the NHS comes as people are living longer and we can treat more things. Successive governments have failed to keep spending on health in line with this.

Also as we cut social care spending there are a serious of knock on affects on the NHS.

Rising population has very little to do with the problems the NHS faces.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: Revolution9
Oh # right off, you are the one who is hypnotised. Blame the immigrants for our underfunded nhs, blame the immigrants for cuts to policing, blame the immigrants for lack of social care that bogs the hospitals down. This site is about denying ignorance, but you buy right in to the propaganda so you don't look at who's actually causing the problem.

Rattled your cage have I, my friend? You have not rattled mine because my cage is much bigger than yours.

I am not blaming immigrants. I am blaming Angela Merkel and the EU. I am blaming those who want to turn the NHS into yet another nasty profit driven corporation who will not want to care for the least well off. Or if they do, they will want to make money out of it like they do with prisons in the U.S. See how cynical the world gets when that is all that is happening?

Nope, immigrants are just plain ol' opportunists. Who can blame a man for doing all he can to survive? I can't.

Blame is political. The corporations and rich people make poverty as a SYMPTOM of their activities. They exploit by nature and usury is exploitation by nature. It follows that the the by product of exploitation will be poverty, dereliction of duty, responsibility and care.

Despite your animosity, I am still considering your rights, mate. That is because our fate is entwined. Neither of us are secure and what they do to me they are doing to you and vice versa.

a reply to: Revolution9

In your title, you misspelled "More Loss of Health Services In UK Because Conservative Governance Is, And Always Was A Cancer Upon The Arse of The Citizenry".

There IS enough money to pay for these things, but the animated corpse being ridden by the decrepit soul of Margret Thatcher that is Theresa May, and her idiotic cronies in Parliament, have bluntly refused to protect the NHS, bluntly refused to savagely protect it from profiteering from its suppliers, refused to protect its budgets or fix them above the cost of actually providing the service, and have elected instead to spend money on things we did not need, and do not want. More bombs, more bullets, and of course no action taken against the largest corporate tax fraudsters, avoiders and evaders, despite the cost of these things being FAR larger than the cost of running ALL our public services.

There are billions upon billions in unpaid tax from huge corporations, and until they do, the government cannot claim that the money is not there. They should be forced to put the money into the NHS from a less popularly supported area. How about shutting down GCHQs mass surveillance network for a year. I would get behind that in a heart beat, and it would save us quite a sum. That will buy a good few flu shots, I am sure.

a reply to: Revolution9

Official figures - the stuff we ATSliens swallow hook, line and sinker since The Don, our Beloved Leader in charge, happened. Wo would've thought any western population could actually increase? Now they can't afford health care due to austerity cuts, too big to fail anyone?

People are "dying" as a result of the government's austerity cuts, Jeremy Corbyn has claimed, as he urged voters to use two upcoming by-elections to "send a message" to the prime minister.

Speaking at his party's local government conference in Warwick, the Labour leader accused ministers of "disgraceful neglect" saying it had led to an "emergency" in local services, including social care.

"We have a state of emergency in our social care system and the worst crisis in the history of our NHS," he said, adding the situation in social care was an "absolute scandal that leaves 1.2 million elderly people without the care they need".

Corbyn: 'People are dying' as a result of austerity cuts


But... but... but... Merkels refugee wave! Right. *sigh*

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Revolution9

there was a story on cnn yesterday I was reading about how the companies here in america needed the immigrants because they couldn't find enough native people who are able to pass their drug tests.. how the immigrants came here willing and able to work, drug free, ready to go after that american dream!! well... beyond the fact that their drug tests aren't as accurate as they claim.... by the time I got about halfway through the article my thinking was kind of in the form of...
ya, the americans, having already concluded that the american dream is lost to them, and are becoming drug addicts, lots of times with the help of the pill pushing healthcare system. while the immigrants are probably more inclined to resort to the herbal remedies that have been passed down to them, so aren't having the pills pushed on them as much. but still, sooner or later, they will come to the same conclusion, the american dream has become nothing more than a dream really. some probably already have... and what will they turn to?? terrorism?

I agree. I am the same in the UK. I am really depressed and my health is tumbling because of it. I, too, have turned to drugs; cannabis in my case. Do you not think there is a reason for that?

People like me will not resort to terrorism. However, if they upset the new kinds of people, they have shown that they do resort to gang warfare, armed struggle, terrorism, they don't like Israel, they deal in sex trafficking, they have multi national allegiances and take money out of the UK and U.S and use us as a cash cow ruthlessly and opportunistically, sometimes hating us as they do it.

Does it not follow that when we move abroad we take a little bit of home with us? Mexico and Pakistan are not just visiting. They are indeed colonizing. They will bring all the infrastructures of their homelands with them. Do you know how dark some of their "infrastructures" are? Watch the movie "The Counselor" sometime.

Jewish people came here and helped to make us the societies we were. Now it is all being squandered because of greed and lack of responsibility and understanding of what our Fathers were trying to do. We forgot our own liberty in favor of profit.

The government have told us why they are having to slash the NHS budget. They are either telling the truth or their accountants are committing fraud. You decide. I think they are telling the truth and it follows we have to do something about this or it will just keep getting worse.

If we do it now , then we can do it in a civilized fashion. Later, we may no longer have that choice. Stamp the words FREEDOM and LIBERTY on our cultures. Don't just stamp PROFIT and OPPORTUNISM.

Ah look! Socialism is succeeding. You are running out of other people's money. Turns out Thatcher was right after all.

And think about this Americans who read this thread ... The US has 350 million. The UK is having trouble proving now that they're bumping up on 2.5 million. Just let the reality of the difference between those two numbers sink in.

a reply to: ketsuko

ketsuko,

Thatcher was not right in the least! This situation the NHS can be found in at the moment, is a direct result of Thatcherite morons in the Conservative Party, not to mention the Red Tories before them, allowing the corporations to embugger the NHS beyond use! This is a failure of THEIR policies, not the sound, decent, moral and fiscally viable policies which lead to the creation of the NHS in the first place!

a reply to: ketsuko

Yet we spend about half what you do as% of GDP and still have a system that is rated far better.

Here is the other thing. If you don't like the level of care you get from the NHS you can still buy health insurance or go private directly. And it costs a fraction of what private healthcare does in the US as it has to compete against what the NHS offers.

Damn socialism helping people live longer and healthier for less money.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Ah look! Socialism is succeeding. You are running out of other people's money. Turns out Thatcher was right after all.

And think about this Americans who read this thread ... The US has 350 million. The UK is having trouble proving now that they're bumping up on 2.5 million. Just let the reality of the difference between those two numbers sink in.

Its failure of the UK system. Doesnt mean the USA is any better or the US should adopt the disgraceful US system There is more to the world than the UK or USA.

All this means is the UK needs to look at what France or Japan does with there healthcare.

a reply to: generik

all that means is that a doctor's shortage is being used to ration healthcare in the socialized medicine whereas the US rations it through financial and the eligibility requirements of their social programs..
like I said...
you poor souls.... having to wait to see your doctor, although I be no one has to wait when it something that needs care sooner... having to pay for over the counter meds, having to drive a little further for your care....

how many have gone bankrupt because they got sick? how many have to keep their kids home from school because they have to wait till payday to refill the kid's inhaler? how many have watched themselves go from productive citizen to disabled? how many have gone practically their whole lives trying to stay alive on just "emergency care"... which by the way isn't free, matter of fact it costs way more, but hey, at least they can't deny you!! (doesn't actually include the setting of broken bones either).

a reply to: dawnstar

I can do business with people like you because I see genuine care and concern in your words for your people. It makes me sad to read that a good nation like yours is not cared for properly and taken advantage of in so many ways.

If they treat the most advanced cultures on earth like this, well it is no wonder why people ar running from the others and overburdening us.

We can only ever find answers by understanding what is causing the problem. Best to be honest, own up and address it before it becomes the monster that bites us on the ass.

The only metaphor for what Western Power is doing that comes to mind is like they had a beautiful pet domestic dog who sat by their side and even defended them with its life when they needed a guard. They started kicking it and neglecting it. They didn't feed it properly and it died. It was replaced with a ferocious wild dog that didn't like them because they had kicked it before. It came pretending to be a friend, but in the night it killed all their children, shat all over their bed, devoured everything edible in the camp and moved on to the next soft touch.

Lol, soon ALL the dogs will hate them and will be united in their determination to destroy the "Massah" who brutalized both of them so.

Socialist governments can work well, its all about where you put your money. We have a right wing government in the UK who like that money to ho to their friends.

a reply to: Revolution9

how much did the US housing bust affect your country? at least here, I think that we are still paying for it...
sure the banks recovered, and are back to playing their old games, but much of their loss was spread out far and wide. personally, I think our economy died when that happened and what we have now is just a zombie that is being kept alive through a mess of illusions.. in which case, all we can do is sit and wait till they finally let the zombie die and then we can start to rebuild.
if that is the case, one has to question the morality of bringing in all these immigrants for us to demonize, to turn in to scapegoats, heck, to probably build work camps to round them up and throw them into...
the countries might be destroyed by war, they might be hell holes, but in the long run, these people might be better off just staying where they are for just a little longer... at least when it comes to coming to the US....
I can't help but get the feeling that our future will be kind of what germany's past was during the world wars...
and somewhere in those more undeveloped nations is the beginning of what america rose to during the second world war and beyond.

a reply to: dawnstar

It affected us devastatingly. It has destroyed me personally. That is how much, Dear Dawnstar.

I am and we all are still paying for it.

They made billions out of it. We lost billions.

It was the greatest swindle of the century. Right now they fly around in private jets and treat the world as a playground with the money they made.

They pulled the plug. They took the profit and ran. Winners and losers in a gamblers' game.

I didn't play, but there was still somebody at the table playing with my life as their chips, my friend. You and me, both.

a reply to: Revolution9

so, can you really blame the immigrants for the gov't stripping the services they provide to the people, when all they are really doing is trying to recoup some of the money that they were convinced was necessary to save our economy then?
I can humanely criticize letting in so many immigrants... I don't think we are really doing any favors. no one likes to be turned into a scapegoat, especially by the people who probably have made the biggest contribution to making their own country inhabitable. I just ain't gonna buy the scapegoating, it's not right and it's dangerous. the real culprits are building underground bunkers when they aren't zipping around the world in their private jets or safely within their gated communities.