Female athletes crushed by 'women who were once men'

a reply to: kosmicjack

It's not transgender having you toss anything out, the controversy is societies fault.

You think x trans person cares if they win because they're competing at a easier level? Some retards of every denomination exist, but the issue for Trans is more, will I have a chance to compete at all? If we will not be seeing Trans-females in female sports, will we see them in male sports? Will we see Trans-men in male?

Again, personally I do karate, so I laugh at such constructs, it's about bettering yourself, the fact I have a trophy taller than myself, for beating a 5th degree blackbelt, means more to me than if they were male or female. Sure the guys are generally better at Karate, but if you don't think there is a woman that can punish you in the sport, that's a little ignorant. My personal teacher is one of the highest level blackbelt females in the world. Anyone mad that Trans are winning is a pitty party compared to how real talent is expressed. Especially in Men-dominated sports.

Why are the best Dart players in the world men? I know Darts isn't your standard sport, but explain this to me before I start to believe that sports isn't generally misogynistic. No trans people in Darts either. Odd how something that takes little to no physical ability is dominated by men. Bowling is dominated by men. So is Golf. Hell, computer games are dominated by men. At the end of the day, I see 'men dominating a sport' as a generalization humanity can eventually let go. What political limits that entails and how it's accomplished is another story, it needs to be in good natured competition. Not all people are the same, am I the only one questioning the idea of placing Trans-Females in both based on physical conditions and actual things we can see and measure rather than arbitrary labels and definitions?

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Your opinion was "This isn't just a chemical thing"

Something I expressed before you said anything about bones,
Something you said assuming I did not understand.

It's pretty clear okay? You wanted to place me on the opposite side of your fence for further 'conversation'.

originally posted by: MacK80
a reply to: kosmicjack

the controversy is societies fault.

It's this outlook by the Trans-gendered community that is the biggest obstacle to a workable solution.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Oh, so society is cool with them not being able to compete in either side? That's your stance?

Explain to me how it's a confused trans persons fault they didn't know what gender team to join, I'll wait.

You think I jump at opportunity to beat up girls in my sparing class because I know I have the better chance to win?

That's the core issue?

They place me against everyone, because obviously karate isn't as blind as wrestling. Wrestling can't even get fair fights between two white boys in the same weight class. My brother was a wrestler, and 90% of it was staying at his class so he would dominate everyone. How this is much different blows my mind anyway.

Simple.

Separate transgender off into a separate class of sports...

I don't care if anyone considers this to be discrimination, because no matter what anyone does to appease those who scream discrimination, they still scream the same thing.

Think of it from a business standpoint.

"A whole new class of "circus" for the masses to enjoy which would open up an entire new industry and necessitate the creation of more channels on your big dumb TV...

Of course there would be those who complain because they still are at a disadvantage because they chose to become a woman when they were born a man or vice versa.

In short "whatever"...

a reply to: MacK80

My opinion was bone structure was more relevant, and that debating whether drugs through puberty or drugs after isn't the only discussion point.

But I'm getting bored and you're getting angry.

Let's just say you're right and I'm wrong and be done with it.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

The only advantage a male skeleton has over a female one is center of gravity, if for fighting, even commenting on density is stupid, so I just tried not to divulge. For the most part men have a slightly more dense femur and more dense hips, and that's about it. This is by fractional amounts. This is also only a comparison because the larger size area of the female hips makes them less dense.

The extremely separating difference between male physique and females is muscles, leading up to almost a 90% difference in lean mass. Duh. Strong bones won't help you if I'm twice as strong at your weight. Well, they will when I slam you.

a reply to: seasonal

Well then we need to allow those men to compete as men, its what they are...men.

Why do people have an issue with this?

a reply to: veracity

My thoughts on that part are complicated just blatantly calling them men,

but yes, for what it is,

don't allow men to sneak in and also ruin trans reputation and womens sports. Unless these 'terrible people' are actually heroes for you to push an agenda.

originally posted by: MacK80
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
Well, they will when I slam you.

Aww shucks. I've gone all red.

Fight guys, yes. She has to fight guys. First of all, she's not really a she. She's a transgender, post-op person. The operation doesn't shave down your bone density. It doesn't change. You look at a man's hands and you look at a women's hands and they're built different. They're just thicker, they're stronger, your wrists are thicker, your elbows are thicker, your joints are thicker. Just the mechanical function of punching, a man can do it much harder than a woman can, period.

Joe Rogan

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Do you see anything wrong with getting your science from a sports commentator and not an actual scientist?

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Almost no part of HRT makes them physically better at fighting.

Why eat the poison then? Shouldn't you be demanding they eat double or some nonsense?

And Joe Rogan is cool, how dare you make his small comparison look like a monumental one to push your own case.

Did you also not read the last sentence? This is purely due to how muscles form, specifically from young age.

If you don't think taking E at a young age can lower muscle growth and type, but also even your bone density also you're i-g-n-o-r-a-n-t.

Now, if Steve, trained MMA fighter of 35 wants to be a 'women' he will be at hormone levels within a year. But it will be 8-ish years before every cell in his body reproduces. It will be 5 decades before this happens enough times that his composite is similar to a female. But if he was on E, before growing any of these muscles, he might be at legitimate female caliber, just growing into it. It's a monumentally different case for two 'trans' people.

And then wait for it- What causes Bone density? Lots of hormones is a factor. In fact, both MtF and FtM experience bone density increase in their first year on hormones. MtF as you would not expect imparticular, has even greater density increases than FtM despite this being what people would expect, because of the necessary hormones to counter testosterone.

In a nutshell, she had STRONGER density bones than from when she was a man. Or at least easily could have. All three scenario's "no increase/increase/decrease" are possible depending on each individuals natural bio-chemistry. It's not even one shoe fits all.

Edit: And just because you mentioned it twice, go look up Density differences between men and female, and comeback with values. Your femur is like a whopping 2% more dense, this is like the second most dense part you have over females. It's meaningless compared to force delivered.

originally posted by: MacK80
a reply to: veracity

My thoughts on that part are complicated just blatantly calling them men,

but yes, for what it is,

don't allow men to sneak in and also ruin trans reputation and womens sports. Unless these 'terrible people' are actually heroes for you to push an agenda.

What agenda???

It would not have been an issue (never was before) if the didn't have to provide birth cert. looks like a man, walks like a man...no questions asked...no problems.

Whose agenda was interjected here? Looks to me like the bc laws.

a reply to: veracity

Well if he lacks identifaction, then the whole story is bogus.

The Agenda would be simple. A man can Defeat both Woman's Sports and Transgenders, by imitating one when not appropriate to have edge, and cast blame on another group, even if it's obvious to yourself what you're doing.

AKA men doing this are heroes to the anti-trans agenda, while authentic trans athletes are now potentially crossfire.

a reply to: veracity

This is a sticky topic.

I think the fact that a person decides to transition to the other sex shouldn't mean that natural women, in this case, should face a superior athlete.

I also think that it sounds like segregation suggesting that separate leagues be set up.

It is a mess, and stepping on toes is going to happen. But who's toes?

originally posted by: MacK80
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Almost no part of HRT makes them physically better at fighting.

Why eat the poison then? Shouldn't you be demanding they eat double or some nonsense?

I haven't once mentioned benefits or negatives for HRT. I'm just getting more and more confused with this whole discussion but that's probably due to my ignorance on the topic.

Anyhoo, I'll leave ya to it.

a reply to: seasonal

Segregate league was proposed by an idiot.

A co-ed league wouldn't be the end of the world, but would face insane contradictions and/or mandates of diversity. If female contributors were substantial enough it could cause second round draft competition themes, with maybe upsets of top females in the first over men to fill the mandate.

Trans need lots of hand-holding, start with Men and Women conjoined leagues, that's been suggested before Trans were even a thing.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: MacK80
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Almost no part of HRT makes them physically better at fighting.

Why eat the poison then? Shouldn't you be demanding they eat double or some nonsense?

I haven't once mentioned benefits or negatives for HRT. I'm just getting more and more confused with this whole discussion but that's probably due to my ignorance on the topic.

Anyhoo, I'll leave ya to it.

You quoted the intro as offtopic? Anything else you'd like to quote in that, that directly addresses you?

I said come back with Density values. Where are my density values?

This topic is a very fitting example of political correctness gone mad. I am trying my best in my attempts to understand how people can justify this as fair.

If you believe that males and females should not be segregated in the sports industry, then fine, you would probably not object to this.

If you do believe gender segregation is essential to keeping things fair, then it is near impossible to argue in favour of this. You would be advocating "legalised" cheating.

How does it relate to PC gone mad? Pro-Transgender advocates are going about fixing a real problem (intolerance of transgenderism) in a very wrong way (forcing society to accept views which are not backed by science in an attempt to drastically change what they consider to be fair and reasonable).

originally posted by: MacK80
A co-ed league wouldn't be the end of the world, but would face insane contradictions and/or mandates of diversity. If female contributors were substantial enough it could cause second round draft competition themes, with maybe upsets of top females in the first over men to fill the mandate.

So, apparently, no solution is acceptable.

originally posted by: MacK80
Trans need lots of hand-holding,

Why? They want all the same rights as everyone else and no one gives a crap about us. The only reason this is an issue is becasue it's an entirely manufactured first world problem, indicative of a declining culture with too much time and money on it's hands.