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Link between Illuminati & Knights Templar

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posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Come on, the Church admitted it is false 600 years later?

You could just as well say it took the Knights Templar 600 years to infiltrate the Church after they (the Knights) were supposedly destroyed, and that members of the modern Knights Templar issued the retraction on behalf of the church.

Have you no imagination
?

Germany apologizes for the Holocaust, but did they say sorry for Dr. Mengele? Like it is some accident that he got away after the war?

The Church apologizes for the child abuse scandal, yet they would rather have people just forget about it, than deal with it, by publishing the names of EVERYONE who has been accused.

Similarly, Freemasonry needs to make a full membership list available upon demand, not request.




posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Eliphas Levi was not merely a Freemason, but then, how could I PROVE that to you? Albert Pike studied his work extensively, but again, without a Time Machine, what do you want from me?


We want you to tell us why yolu believe the things you say. You can't just believe something without any reason or proof! So if you believe he was a mason, but have no reason for believeing it, then you should not bother stating it because we will ask you for proof.



Seriously, does anyone want to touch the topic why their is a Freemason Lodge 13 blocks north of the White House?


That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, but you trolls keep stating it over and over again. 13 isn't even a significant number in Freemasonry, if there is a lodge 13 blocks away, nobody cares but you.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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All you guys have EVER wanted is for me to link everything I say, to prove I wasn't the first person to say it.

You just want me to link to something so you can say I have it out of context, or something entirely un-related on said site is 'ridiculous'.

Baphomet is NOT a translation of Mahomet, but then, who can say it is any ONE thing? Baphomet is SOPHIA. Are ye learned Freemasons familiar with the concept?

The Knights Templar sure do disagree with you about 13 being an important number. So while Freemasonry may not 'care' as you put it, its quite the coincidental link between the Knights and Masonry (as well as the 13 degrees of the Scottish Rite).

Friday the 13th happens more frequently than any other day of the week, day of the month combination (not withstanding thursday the 12th, etc.) and in months when it occurs, calendars have a more perfect, SQUARE look to them, because the first day occurs in the first block.

The Square is important to Masonry isn't it? But only because you're descended from Builders, right?



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
All you guys have EVER wanted is for me to link everything I say, to prove I wasn't the first person to say it.

You just want me to link to something so you can say I have it out of context, or something entirely un-related on said site is 'ridiculous'.




So basically, what you are saying is that your interpretations are open to question and you just choose to present them in a way that casts aspersions on other people.
I find it ridiculous that you whine about having your sources questioned. To be taken seriously one must always present an argument with the assumption that others will require it to be either based in fact or at least with a background that can be examined for plausability.

Whilst we're on the subject of building, let me use it as an example to explain to you how a theory works.
Your sources are the foundations of the theory. Your words and ideas are the bricks. If the foundations are shaky, the bricks that you place upon them will fall. Your bricks seem to be falling around your ears most of the time. Some would therefore like to know the state of the foundations on which you are placing them.

So yes, I have asked for evidence for some of your claims. Either put up or shut up.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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I translated Baphomet into Sophia myself, using the Hebrew Atbash code. Its a part of the Kabbalah.

It is Shvpia, technically, but the concepts are one and the same.

Its not that I mind being asked for my sources, the problem is ITS THE ONLY THING you guys care about. You could care less what I type, if Masons haven't debunked it as a whole, you won't touch it.

And if I do give a source, how can I be sure any one will even take a glance at it? I prefer to work with ideas, then represent the facts.

One cannot understand the deception of man without understanding why man must be deceived. I could tell you all about subliminal messages in Disney movies, but without the curiosity to look into it, it would all be dismissed with the blink of an eye.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
I could tell you all about subliminal messages in Disney movies, but without the curiosity to look into it, it would all be dismissed with the blink of an eye.


You could. But it's already been discussed elsewhere here on ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just put "Disney subliminal" into the site search engine and see how many hits you get.

And the problem with people like yourself and discussions regarding the above is that you'll leap from one conjecture to the other without giving any reasonable evidence. One moment we'll be going from the idea that the word "sex" in the Lion King was placed there to control people, to the claim that Disney himself was a 33 degree Freemason with evil intentions, without anything other than your statements to go on.
If you wish to start such a thread, go for it. But for god's sake, cite your resources. You've picked a subject that it should be pretty easy to put forward as a good conspiracy if you work hard enough at it.



[edit on 13-2-2005 by Leveller]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Your conclusions on the Baphomet drawing were bull#. Why do you make me say it so blatantly?

What, specifically, was bull#?


You guys obviously TRIED HARD to find a picture MORE similar to Georgie's pose, but could not.

THere's only one pose that the actual statue can be in, and there's only one pose that the baphomet drawing originally made by levi can be in (ie the one that it is infact in).


Then you tried to post pictures of other statues, to take up space I guess?

Perhaps you are refering to the other classically designed statues? The one that shows the similarity in artistic form between them and the Geo statue? Or perhaps you are refering to the one of cinncinatus? How was that 'taking up space'?


The reason I am not discussing links between the Illuminati and Knights Templar/quote]
Then perhaps you should not post in the 'links between the illuminati and Knights templar' thread eh?



What some call neo-classicism in art, I call blatant symbolism. Who am I to try convince people otherwise?

Obviously you are no one to try to convince anyone of anything. How is it that the geo washington statue must be a 'blatant' copy (even tho its, what, sitting down and has one hand raised?) of symbols (and, again, the only actual symbol is the fasces there), but for some bizzare reason can't have anything to do with the artistic style that it has more in common with than the baphomet drawing?

I mean, you are accusing others of wasting space, yet you have stated you won't discuss the thread topic; thats wasting space. You accuse others of forcing the subject matter to fit into an 'erroneous' interpretation, yet you are the one forcing the vague and meaningless similiarities between the items as evidence of an actual connection.


leveller
First he says that Freemasonry is derived from an ancient make-believe term called "Phree Messen".

Well thats just laughable. An ancient egyptian term that just happens to sound like some other term in english thousands of years later? And the 'phree messens' change their 'cult' over to a stone working guild?

And also magically don't leave evidence of their existence until those labour union contracts start showing up? Yeesh.


basically represents the same function of Nature

I find it most peculiar too that the important 'symbols' or 'references' in the baphomet drawing are not in teh Geo washington statue. The geo statue is simply a statue of a guy with a raised hand.

Occam's rule would fit in nicely here. Sure, it could be that its actual a replication of the baphomet drawing, but this would require a lot of bizzare circumstances and explanations, not the least of which is the neo-classical style, which is more simply, thus better, explained by the cinncinatus 'identity'.

It almost seems silly to even consider a man in a toga in a common classical pose holding a fasces is not supposed to be a classical form.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by akillescalendars have a more perfect, SQUARE look to them, because the first day occurs in the first block.

Oh man, now thats some gooooood crazy.

Just like with the geo washington statue, you fail to address the issue of who actually made it. Was the designer of the geo statue a student of neoclassical art or neo-paganism? Are you saying Gaius was part of the cult of 'phree messens' or that Gregory was? Are there no 'phree messens' active in the orthodox church? Or do they just not want to 'fix' their calender?

A person who even had moderately considered the situation would have at least mentioned these things, let alone had a reasonable explanation, a strong] explanation. As opposed to an unreasonable and weak one, an explanation that 'coudl be true' or 'can't be proven false', one that has been couched and manipulated to such a degree as to be 'safe from refutation' but also meaningless.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
I translated Baphomet into Sophia myself, using the Hebrew Atbash code. Its a part of the Kabbalah.

Demonstrate the method so that others can understand it.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Friday the 13th happens more frequently than any other day of the week, day of the month combination (not withstanding thursday the 12th, etc.) and in months when it occurs, calendars have a more perfect, SQUARE look to them, because the first day occurs in the first block.






posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
All you guys have EVER wanted is for me to link everything I say, to prove I wasn't the first person to say it.
You just want me to link to something so you can say I have it out of context, or something entirely un-related on said site is 'ridiculous'.


Not necessarily...we just like legitimate (i.e. things that haven't already been debunked) references.



Baphomet is NOT a translation of Mahomet, but then, who can say it is any ONE thing? Baphomet is SOPHIA. Are ye learned Freemasons familiar with the concept?


I'm familiar with Sophia...but Baphomet is a mispronounciation of Mohammed.



The Knights Templar sure do disagree with you about 13 being an important number.


I am a Knight Templar and don't find the #13 important at all. I'm familiar with Friday the 13th, it's significance, etc....but Knights Templar do NOT utilize the #13 in their ritual in any way...



So while Freemasonry may not 'care' as you put it, its quite the coincidental link between the Knights and Masonry (as well as the 13 degrees of the Scottish Rite).


The Scottish Rite consists of 33 Degrees, NOT 13. There IS a 13th Degree of the Scottish Rite, followed by the 14th, 15th, etc. etc.




Friday the 13th happens more frequently than any other day of the week, day of the month combination (not withstanding thursday the 12th, etc.) and in months when it occurs, calendars have a more perfect, SQUARE look to them, because the first day occurs in the first block.


I suppose if one looks deep enough at something (or in this case just makes some bizarre stuff up) one can see symbolism in anything.



The Square is important to Masonry isn't it? But only because you're descended from Builders, right?


The Square is important, but Compasses are important too. In the U.S.A. the Square and Compasses are included (in their explanation) along with the . . . are you ready for this? The HOLY BIBLE! In fact now that I think about it, Bibles are sort of square...well rectangular, but you get the point...

Evil stuff here!



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
The Square is important to Masonry isn't it? But only because you're descended from Builders, right?



Man you are annoying!!! You constantly say s%#t like this. Go ahead and tell us, to what conspiracy do you contribute the square being important to masons??? If not because we use it allegorically, then why, WHY WHY WHY else would the square be important to us!?!?!?!?



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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All Iknow is if the iluminati are still in exsistence then they have infiltrated most of the worlds political infastructure
and were screwed



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by iluminati are real
All Iknow is if the iluminati are still in exsistence then they have infiltrated most of the worlds political infastructure
and were screwed


Well FINALLY something that makes sense....



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
All you guys have EVER wanted is for me to link everything I say, to prove I wasn't the first person to say it.

Friday the 13th happens more frequently than any other day of the week, day of the month combination (not withstanding thursday the 12th, etc.) and in months when it occurs, calendars have a more perfect, SQUARE look to them, because the first day occurs in the first block.


I'm sorry, but I can't let this pass without comment.

First of all there is only one Friday the thirteenth in 2005, and three Friday the elevenths. Not even close to being the" most frequent day of the week, day of the month combinations"

Even if it were true, by this reasoning, in any month with a Friday the thirteenth there would be at least twenty seven other "most frequent day of the week, day of the month combinations.

And finally, the calendar that most of us use is always a seven block by five block rectangle in a month with a Friday the thirteenth and only resembles a square by having four square corners.

This seems to fall under the "I'll just make it up, and maybe they won"t check" school of logic. When the smoke clears, and the mirrors are removed, the only question remaining is what other of the author's so called "facts" are just more made up nonsense.

And the reason why the author whines so much about having to provide links.



[edit on 2/19/2005 by tylerdjp]



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 03:36 AM
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I am totally new to these theories and ideas, and would like some questions answered if I may. I have read a bit about the Illuminati, it's beginnings and the like. What I'm interested in at the moment is that I keep hearing the Kinghts Templar being brought up whenever I talk about the Illuminati. Now, I know the illuminati work hand in hand with the Masons (Satanists), yet I have also heard that the Knights Templar (who were apparently guards for the israeli trade routes in biblical times, and are supposedly of christian faith) are very deeply involved with the Masons. So, the question is, Does anyone know of a link at all between The Illuminati and the Knights Templar?


Firstly, this theory is totally inaccurate.
The bavarian illuminati has no links to Knights Templar, the other illuminati (the bloodline that goes back through history) is believed to have links but there is no records to suggest links between the Knights Templar.

Masons are not Satanists, they do not worship satan and have no links to satanism. And the Knights Templar were not around in the bible times and if they were, how can they be involve with freemasonry? i dont Freemasonry was even founded then (if i am wrong, correct me please)

Overall, the statements you made are false and inaccurate, plus misleading. In future, research into theories to gain an understand what is fact and fiction. In this case, you are very wrong.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 06:56 AM
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Their alive and well and living in Scotland -partly. If your into the Ark of the Covenent mystery - follow the Knights Templer travel (not protection routes), from the catacombs in Isreal before the Babalonians invaded - to Ethiopia and on to Rosslyn, Scotland.
'Why can't we all just get along...'?
Dallas



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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its all a brotherhood not a sisterhood..a male preserve..it is imbalanced
the freemasons have become one of the most important of the secret societies,which have appeared since ancient times,based on structure and belief of the brotherhood..mystery schools,as have the others..refering to the cult as the cult of the all seeing eye..worshipping fourth dimensional gods or masters..it goes back to antiquity and this same stream of manipulation is behind the new world order to this day.

thruout known human history there have two known levels of knowledge operating on this planet.one is made public for the mass of the people to see.,most of which is flawed and manipulated to control our thinking and reality we create,while the other is known to only a few,mostly in the elite levels of the brotherhoods
did you know the red cross symbol is also that of the knights of the templar..such a shame..for the 99%of them that work out of compassion for the plight of the worlds people.
the flag of england as well and the symbol in which columbus flew on his ships.
look its not all bad..the founding of the colonies was great...
the new world order could be great..but because of the elitist bankers and the imbalance from brotherhoods..with out the feminine included....
it is not working out to be so...
the play of power for greed..
all i can say is that none of us have to be in the dark..just study some history with an open mind and fuse it together..

study jehovah hebrew bal babylon osiris egypt
symbolism earth energy..ican go on..but its for each of us to decipher..

come from a place of love

i am what i am



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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Yes, the calendar is considered SQUARE in a month with Friday the 13th.

I didn't say it was by far the most frequent, think about it, its odds are minimally greater, want me to do the Math?
I already mentioned that there would be an equivalent amount of Friday the 27ths as their would be Friday 13th, whats YOUR point?

And a February WOULD be square, but hey, lets ignore that FACT.

A square symbolically represents ORDER, again, something very important as is evident from the slogan, I mean motto, Ordo Ab Chao.

But what does it matter if they share all the symbolism in the world, if their insight is different. What? Thats the same too, damn.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Yes, the calendar is considered SQUARE in a month with Friday the 13th.




I didn't say it was by far the most frequent, think about it, its odds are minimally greater, want me to do the Math?


Here's your original quote.


Friday the 13th happens more frequently than any other day of the week, day of the month combination (not withstanding thursday the 12th, etc.)


More frequently than any other.

And no thank you, your Math is probably as reliable as your ''facts''




I already mentioned that there would be an equivalent amount of Friday the 27ths as their would be Friday 13th, whats YOUR point?



So let's see... Friday the thirteenth happens MORE FREQUENTLY THAN ANY OTHER day of the week, day of the month combination, EXCEPT for the twenty seven OTHER MORE FREQUENT day of the week, day of the month combinations in the same month.

You're right. You've already made my point for me. Thank you.

Or do you mean more months with Friday the thirteenth in them?
For example, the year 2005 which has one month with a Friday the thirteenth, and three months with a Friday the eleventh.

Looks like Friday the thirteenth has some catching up to do this year if that's the case.



And a February WOULD be square, but hey, lets ignore that FACT.


Here's a link to a February with a Friday the thirteenth in it.

depts.washington.edu...

It still looks like a four block by seven block RECTANGLE to me, but hey, let's ignore Geometry as long as you're already willing to ignore FACTS.


Or are you talking about this?

www.sciencenews.org...

Then I have to agree that there are 684 Thursday the thirteenths and 688 Friday the thirteenths in a four hundred year cycle, and I'll admit that a case can be made for some kind of vague meaning from this but

I still don't see a square.

[edit on 2/21/2005 by tylerdjp]



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